Time May Be Running Out... Literally

Anyone Got The Time?

Personally, I think dark energy is a fairy tale scientists dreamed up to fill in the blanks for the unknown, currently being why the universe seems to be expanding at an accelerated rate. Which is why I found this information quite interesting.

A new theory proposed by Professor José Senovilla, Marc Mars and Raül Vera (University of the Basque Country, Bilbao, and University of Salamanca, Spain), published in the journal Physical Review D, suggests that dark energy is fiction, and that the universe is not actually accelerating in expansion, it just appears that way. The reason being, time is disappearing from the universe.

However, to this day no one actually knows what dark energy is, or where it comes from. Professor Senovilla, and colleagues have proposed a mind-bending alternative. They propose that there is no such thing as dark energy at all, and we’re looking at things backwards. Senovilla proposes that we have been fooled into thinking the expansion of the universe is accelerating, when in reality, time itself is slowing down.

Everything that begins, must come to an end at some point right?

"Our calculations show that we would think that the expansion of the universe is accelerating," says Prof Senovilla. The theory bases it’s idea on one particular variant of superstring theory, in which our universe is confined to the surface of a membrane, or brane, floating in a higher-dimensional space, known as the "bulk". In billions of years, time would cease to be time altogether.

I have yet to see the journal entry, just this article, though it sounds like this could very well be one of those, "duh" moments in scientific discovery.

Check out there article yourself, it's a short but interesting read.

SOURCE

But don't worry ATSers, if time ever does run out for the universe, earth and its inhabitants will be long gone by then.

reply to post by Lighterside

Are you sure earth will be gone ? Every galaxy has it's own time zone and years, divide that up with the travel of a wormhole or portal......let's just say. We'll still be in with it.

reply to post by Lighterside


lmao DailyGalaxy is a total # site, that steals articles from real news papers and adds a bunch of bull# at the end and tries to pass it off as their own with bad English and seriously poor grammar.

No one with a real science background would buy into any of their nonsense.

reply to post by Lighterside

Personally, I think dark energy is a fairy tale scientists dreamed up to fill in the blanks for the unknown, currently being why the universe seems to be expanding at an accelerated rate. Which is why I found this information quite interesting.

Well that's not the only reason for the theory of dark energy and that is not it's only impact on our universe. As this dark energy is potentially something we can encounter and study (anti-matter was science fiction not that long ago) I'll put my eggs in that basket before I started contemplating time, something we're not even sure exists, "disappearing" from the universe.

That, to me, sounds like a fairy tale scientists dreamed up to be contrarians to the dark energy theory.

Thankfully, all of this is science and will actually be looked into. I'd like the read the journal myself and see more of the reasons why they've come to this theory.

From what the OP quoted, it sounds like instead of an acceleration, which we have apparently recorded, in the expansion of the universe, the speed is constant, time is the factor making it appear to increase? Wouldn't the absence of time slow it down?

Time and space are linked, according to Einstein. But time, as perceived by us is merely events following each other. Why do we know there is "time"? Well, ten minutes ago i was reading the OPs information, now I am responding, cause and effect.

If we remove "time" wouldn't that create a static environment where nothing actually happens? This appears to be what they are saying at the end of the article. Time for us wouldn't really change, but on the cosmic level things would seem faster, then static, nothing.

That just doesn't sound right to me.

Bah mind bending stuff. Good find OP

From my 53 years of experience in the Universe I conclude the exact opposite as these gentlemen, my findings suggest that the older you get the days get longer but the years get shorter, which is supported by astrophysical orbital dynamics, and...

Though radical and in many way(s) unprecedented, these ideas are not without support. Gary Gibbons, a cosmologist at Cambridge University, says the concept has merit.

LOL!

There is an actual way in Einsteinian Relativity to slow time down, approach traveling c. Maybe these guys are just confusing theories together because dark energy frustrates them due to the possibility they may have actually did no calculations to account for the missing energy. Just a thought, as valid as theirs.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


I dont think "nothingness" would happen. Didn't Einstein say that the only reason we have time is so that everything doesn't happen all at once?
Sounds like the opposite reaction would occur, but I don't know how or what it would be like...everything all at once..

reply to post by Lighterside


Well, considering "dark" energy is Zero Point energy - which has been shown to exist, I'm guessing They have it wrong.

www.calphysics.org...

EDIT to add: Here's an interesting article - The Concept of the Mind Directing Energy in Physics: Zero Point Energy Field:

hubpages.com...

reply to post by Lighterside

Everything that begins, must come to an end at some point right?

Absolutely not.
Anyone who believes in a higher power would have to agree, how much time does your God have?
I would see my God as unaffected by trivial things such as time.
The whole article sounds to me as a few guys getting together and looking for some attention via fearmongering.
I may be wrong, but if I am it really does't matter does it?

Originally posted by Amaterasu
reply to post by Lighterside

 

Well, considering "dark" energy is Zero Point energy - which has been shown to exist, I'm guessing They have it wrong.

www.calphysics.org...

EDIT to add: Here's an interesting article - The Concept of the Mind Directing Energy in Physics: Zero Point Energy Field:

hubpages.com...

edit on 6/17/2011 by Amaterasu because: add

I think you have zero point energy a bit off - en.wikipedia.org...

Dark Energy/Dark Matter are unknowns we have yet to directly 'shed light' on, and therefore are labelled as 'Dark'

So the OP is at least partially correct...if we knew what DE and DM were, we probably wouldn't call them that any longer. They represent things in our current understanding of the universe and the interaction of matter within it that we haven't directly been able to observe or measure, but which current data shows must exist given the accuracy of our calculations and the discrepancies found in certain circumstances. Of course, it could turn out that there is something else at work here entirely, but our current understanding of things leads to the need of DE and DM in these certain circumstances.

reply to post by Lighterside


we have always considered time as liner and as "stable" throughout the universe
but the type 1A supernova studies showed time acting "non liner"
we interperate this as expansion
but what if each nova has a different "time frame reference"?
if time was not a constant but a condition of "local" space
then the expansion would be an effect of the "slowing" of "local" time in a non liner universe

nice idea would like to read the paper if you find it can you post for me

xploder

reply to post by Heartisblack
Yeah, I'm pretty sure. If time were to run out as this theory suggests, it would be far after our Sun dies off, earth may or may not exist, but not in it's present form, and not with us living on it.


reply to post by aceto
I frequent the site quite often, although I don't have a science background, and I am no scientist. I am aware their articles are a round up of stories/articles currently circulating, if you have a better site for reading up on scientific/astrophysics current events I'd love to check it out.

The funny thing about your statement is you identify that the stories are not there own, but at the same time state that one should not buy into their (keyword 'their') nonsense.


reply to post by phishyblankwaters
You see a theory like this being a "filler" (for lack of a better word) for the unknown, much the same way I view dark energy. But yeah, I know there are other consequences from the effect of dark energy theorized, but I still kinda see it as a scapegoat for the unknown, and not just the acceleration of the universe. But as I stated, I'm no scientist, and I could totally be wrong, I just find this stuff fascinating. Good insight though. It definitely is mind-bending stuff.


reply to post by Illustronic
Sure feels like years get shorter the older I get too.... uhg, I hate growing older.


reply to post by Amaterasu
Thanks for the links, I'll be sure to check them out.
I was always under the impression though that both zero point energy and dark matter are just theories. This proves both exist? Interesting.


reply to post by g146541
Well, I don't think talking about something that will happen billions of years from now is exactly fear mongering. Does my view of 'God' have time? No. But in the same respect my view of 'God' doesn't actually exist in the physical universe, and neither does true reality. So I am open to the idea time could come to an end in the universe.


reply to post by Dashdragon
I definitely fall into your line of thinking.


reply to post by XPLodER
Will do, and thank you for that insight.

Originally posted by Lighterside
I frequent the site quite often, although I don't have a science background, and I am no scientist. I am aware their articles are a round up of stories/articles currently circulating, if you have a better site for reading up on scientific/astrophysics current events I'd love to check it out.

The funny thing about your statement is you identify that the stories are not there own, but at the same time state that one should not buy into their (keyword 'their') nonsense.

It's actually a mixture of some valid stories from other sites, with the occasional completely made up stuff they throw in that doesn't come from anywhere.

Try the site the article references:
www.newscientist.com...

This one is probably better too:
www.sciencedaily.com...
Click the "space and time" link but the others are interesting too.

In fact just about every source I've seen is better than the dailygalaxy. And if you're not a scientist you might have even more trouble telling the made up stuff from the real stuff.

In this particular article, I must agree that the ideas are not without merit.

But I don't think we can really say this makes the existing explanation for dark energy wrong, there IS NO existing explanation for dark energy, that's why they call it dark. So ideas like this should be put on the table, along with other ideas like someone mentioned about the possible link to vaccum or zero-point energy. Once we have these ideas we can try to develop experiments to see if observations van favor one possibility over another. For now, dark energy is definitely still a mystery.

By the way, another alternative explanation says the expansion isn't accelerating as dark energy observations claim, if we happen to be at the center of the universe. That theory isn't popular because it violates the Copernican principle saying there's nothing special about our place in the universe, but the authors of the paper are still looking for proof and I suppose that idea isn't 100% without merit mathematically, though it does seem very unlikely.

Originally posted by Dashdragon

Originally posted by Amaterasu
reply to post by Lighterside

 

Well, considering "dark" energy is Zero Point energy - which has been shown to exist, I'm guessing They have it wrong.

www.calphysics.org...

EDIT to add: Here's an interesting article - The Concept of the Mind Directing Energy in Physics: Zero Point Energy Field:

hubpages.com...

edit on 6/17/2011 by Amaterasu because: add

I think you have zero point energy a bit off - en.wikipedia.org...

I see You are new here, and that might explain the use of Wikipedia as source.

From: www.zpower.com...

Science Proves ZPE is Real

Science employs a variety of names to describe this "new" energy field: space energy, vacuum energy, quantum vacuum, dark energy, and Zero Point Energy (ZPE).

To explain in further detail, ZPE is the conversion of electromagnetic radiation energy to electrical energy, and more specifically the conversion of an extremely high frequency bandwidth of the electromagnetic spectrum (beyond Gamma Rays) known as the zero point spectrum. Physicists recognize that we are immersed in an energetic field.

Wikipedia is surely NOT the best for getting information about suppressed technology. Just sayin'.

oilprice.com...

There is a lot of activity in Zero Point Energy around the world. In the U.S. it remains an oddball or unscientific field. In other places the science is taken much more seriously. This writer abhors the notion of being hooked into ‘known’ science when a lifetime is already filled with the facts being updated, corrected and reframed. Far better to keep an open mind – opportunity comes when preparedness and new events collide. Zero Point Energy and Cold Fusion are now events, right or wrong, but if right one better be prepared.

The astronomy and cosmology sciences have observed that two thirds of the total universe is comprised of an invisible type of energy, about which little is known or only slightly more than the fact that it exists. One cannot see this type of energy thus its been given the name “dark energy”.

Dark Energy/Dark Matter are unknowns we have yet to directly 'shed light' on, and therefore are labelled as 'Dark'

That is what They WANT You to think. Just sayin'.

So the OP is at least partially correct...if we knew what DE and DM were, we probably wouldn't call them that any longer. They represent things in our current understanding of the universe and the interaction of matter within it that we haven't directly been able to observe or measure, but which current data shows must exist given the accuracy of our calculations and the discrepancies found in certain circumstances. Of course, it could turn out that there is something else at work here entirely, but our current understanding of things leads to the need of DE and DM in these certain circumstances.

I had a link - can't find it now - where the question was asked why, when ZPE was "dark" energy, They chose to call it "dark" energy instead of "zero point " energy, and the response was that They wanted something more "mysterious."

Anyway, I suspect You have a great deal of learning to do. We know a lot more about ZPE/"dark" energy than They let on.


EDIT to add: I found that link; I guess it was "vague," not "mysterious," that They were going for:

www.pureenergysystems.com...

Valone also talked about quantum coherence and micro laser cavities. He cited the works of Pinto (Phys Rev. B 60, 21, 1999 p. 4457) and how he was able to use a micro laser cavity to change the properties and increase the Casimir force – like turning on a light and getting a force out. He also spoke about the fluctuation driven electricity experiments by Crooks (Phys Rev. E. 60, 1999) where he is able to get motion from zero input force. He described this as like a “quantum ratchet”. The research by Linke in Science magazine was also cited. Valone described a report in the July 8, 2004 issue of Nature about how the “Dark Energy” of astronomy is ZPE, and is why the universe is accelerating. He said that when he confronted astronomer Reba Goodman about this nomenclature, and that they are describing Zero Point Energy, so why didn’t they just call it ZPE, the astronomer replied that they “wanted to keep it vague.”

(bolding mine)

reply to post by Lighterside


I have more links above this post... And here's another one:

www.quantrek.org...

EDIT to add: http: //da_theoretical1.tripod.com/DarkLambda.html





Take the space out of the above after "http:"


arxiv.org...

Perhaps time isn't slowing down but more like disintegrating/disappearing. Maybe thats what this whole 2012 thing is about. Time is slowly ceasing to exist, and after 2012 we will live in a time without time.