“Why Aren’t You Speaking English?”, page 35

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reply posted on 23-7-2011 @ 06:39 PM by matito

Spanish is the second most common language in the country, and is spoken by over 12% of the population.[6] The United States holds the world's fifth largest Spanish-speaking population, outnumbered only by Mexico, Spain, Argentina, and Colombia.

This is why spanish is so prevalent in the US. If it was Italian or french, then it would be the same resulting scenario.

Who really is to be blamed? I think it's the corporations that are only concerned about increasing sales and politicians who cater to the spanish speakers for votes.

I don't see spanish speakers rallying in the streets demanding bilingual labels or customer service in spanish.

Anyone angry about the emergence of Spanish as a secondary language in the US needs to direct their outrage to these two groups not so much to the spanish speakers themselves.

Maybe more spanish speakers would attempt to learn english if corporations and politicians stopped catering to them in their native language. There is little motivation to learn another language when everything is already available in your native language. This is the same for any person in any foreign country.

reply posted on 23-7-2011 @ 07:18 PM by LeTan

reply to post by matito

My opinion on the matter is, the Senator had a good reason for questioning him. They are in a US court with the majority of the building probably being English speakers. It is disrespectful, in the sense that he is trying to voice his opinion on a matter, but voices it in a language that not all can understand when he has the ability to do otherwise.

My dad and I are immigrants ourselves, we speak Vietnamese and English. My dad had always had a hard time with English, but he tried. If someone did not understand something he was saying, he would try to rephrase the sentence or try harder to pronounce his words. This is different from my experiences with Hispanics at work, who just repeat the word for it in Spanish over and over, expecting you to just understand. There is no effort on their part to break the barrier.

When the Senator asked him why he didn't speak English, he did not even answer him in English, instead he had his interpreter explain why he was speaking in Spanish.

reply posted on 23-7-2011 @ 10:15 PM by matito

reply to post by LeTan

If you remove the comforts of having everything translated into spanish and eliminate all the bilingual spanish speakers that companies hire - then it would be more of a requirement to learn english and not just a choice. Why would they need to learn english if everything is translated into spanish and every company has someone who speaks spanish? It's no longer a necessity to speak english so they just don't care it seems. Any company hiring spanish speakers that do not speak fluent english are exacerbating and contributing to this issue. This is the root of the problem I believe.

Same thing with "china town" or any cultural community. If you go there I'm sure there are many who don't speak a word of english, simple because they do not have to. The difference is that there are thousands of "spanish towns" all over the US and these spanish speaking cultural communities are branching out and merging into all communities.

Complete language Immersion is the best way to learn another language. By having everything available in spanish now, native spanish speakers have grown complacent over the years. Compared to thirty years ago when there was no spanish translations or translators and most spanish speakers were obligated to learn how to speak fluent english and they did.

Now with presidential elections revving up, closely watch how all the candidates cater to spanish speakers to garnish votes. This same two sided mentality is a contributing factor as to why the US is now a English/Spanish speaking country. When convenient, non-english speaking native spanish speakers are accepted with open arms by corporations for profits and politicians for votes.

edit on 23-7-2011 by matito because:

reply posted on 24-7-2011 @ 06:09 PM by Sphota

Originally posted by SmArTbEaTz
reply to post by hotbakedtater

Did you see Italians demanding we put labels on food in Italian?

Italian immigration occurred at a time with lower literacy and no FDA rules regarding labeling...so, not so much in the English department either. By the way, the 10 percent or so of the US that traces Italian heritage - including myself - how many of them are going around speaking Italian, exactly?

Do you have to push 1 to continue in Chinese?
How about Russian? Polish? Icelandic? Gaelic? What about the Sweeds and Dutch?

These groups are either small minorities or came early on, so catering to their language needs is not within the framework of industry...that is of course unless the specific corporation has a specific dealing with those countries. I have had a recording come on and tell me to press 1 for Portuguese and what I can only assume was press 1 for Chinese in years past, but few and far between. Gaelic...are you serious? They suffered the opposite fate from whatever you think is happening to English in the US. Gaelic is all but extinct because of British colonization.

Of course not because it's only the Spanish that think that we should turn our culture into theirs...

That's not a valid assessment. Culturally, I see no trends that are supplanting American culture in any mainstream way. Food? What about pizza or Chinese food? Music? The tango was popular over a generation ago, and I seem to remember Ricky Ricardo having a tropical band on a hit TV show in the 50s. Heck, Texan and Cajuns already have music that is influenced by Mexican music, and that was a long time coming. What else?

Learn the how to speak it or LEAVE...

Three generations. It takes three generations to not speak the grandparents' language. This is the same in any immigrant community, whether the setting is Brazil, the US, Australia or South Africa and whether the immigrant is a Spanish-speaker or someone else. Three generations:

The first has a chance of learning the local language, but imperfectly depending on age of arrival.
The second will speak both, but usually be dominant at the local language.
The third may or may not understand the language, possibly speaking a little, but usually only catch phrases or cultural things. It depends on whether both parents are from the same place and speak the same language.

America should not be forced to subside to your demands...

You don't press 1 if you don't want Spanish, right?

I was @ Walmart the other day looking for an item and half the people working on the floor could not speak English... And this is what American Customer Service is...

First, hahahaha, customer service at Walmart. Second, blame Walmart...where do you think the prices that destroy ma-and-pa stores come from? Slave labor here, slave labor in China.

Also... it's damn rude to talk in another language when others are around... and yes idiots I hear you talking trash about white people because I took the time to learn your language...

You know, I always used to listen in when people are speaking another language I understood to see what evil, mean, or rude things they might be saying. You know what they are usually saying? The same stupid crap you and I say to the other person we're shopping with: "What about this one?" "No, this one is cheaper." "You sister would really like these votive candles." "I don't really like cilantro." etc.

Rude? If you are having a conversation in a group of people and everyone except you speaks the language and they all speak English, I would interpret it as rude if the other people started speaking in that language. If it was only two people out of the group, I would interpret that one of them needed help understanding something. But if you are not involved in the conversation, I don't see how it's rude.

reply posted on 24-7-2011 @ 06:22 PM by Sphota

reply to post by SmArTbEaTz

So because 12% speak Spanish the 82% should learn it? Try that in another country...

Go to Iran, Russia or Poland and tell them they should except English or Spanish... It isn't happening...

As you can see in the posts all over here, Spanish people are down right too lazy to learn English ALL OVER THE WORLD... but demand the world know Spanish...

Who is saying the other 82% have to learn it? Also, I would note that the 82% includes some of the 12%, and vice versa. Also, I guarantee that the 82% includes about 400 other languages (I made up that number, but I could innumerate if you want, starting with European languages, since they tend to be more prevalent).

Iran, Russia and Poland (to a lesser degree) are already bilingual countries, whether the ruling ethnicity of each one acknowledges it or not. You can find plenty of Arabic, Armenian and Pashto speakers in Iran. In Russia, you are talking at least several dozen languages other than Russian. In Poland, there are many areas where German and Slovak are spoken.

Again, Spain already tried to force the Americas (minus the British and French controlled, as well as the Tordesillas treaty), the Philippines and whole swaths of Africa to speak Spanish. It stuck to varying degrees, from all out language replacement, to mixing, to creolization.

Again, there are more bilingual people in the world than monolingual (can speak only one language). Most nations on the planet have more than one language spoken inside their territory. I would be shocked to learn of actually any single nation that is not composed of a bilingual situation in some region. I actually cannot think of one.

I actually don't think there is a single one.

reply posted on 24-7-2011 @ 06:28 PM by Sphota

reply to post by SmArTbEaTz

They do too pay taxes:

They pay sales tax.
They pay to register vehicles.
They pay for licenses.
They pay for rent or a home, which means they pay property taxes, which means they pay for school for their children.

There are many that pay federal taxes because they aren't always paid in cash only. I know several illegal aliens who have paid into social security. There status is not legal, but that doesn't mean they aren't following the rules.

As far as street signs...The iconic Stop sign is universal, so if a person didn't stop, that is their poor driving skills, not a language barrier. Also, to say, the person who hit me was an illegal is the same as saying the person who hit me was black, the person who hit me was Italian, the person who hit me was native American. The person who hit was female. The person who hit me was male. The person who hit me was gay. There is no substance to it.

reply posted on 24-7-2011 @ 06:32 PM by Sphota

reply to post by SmArTbEaTz

That's a silly way to rationalize it. It's not like upon inception of the US there was some new cultural/genetic strain. It was still a continuation of the same cultural practices that have slowly drifted apart over 240 years.

reply posted on 24-7-2011 @ 06:35 PM by Sphota

reply to post by openminded2011

Yeah, but even so, I don't think sending the "lion's share" (oxymoron when you're dealing with the pay a person gets working the field, but I'll go with the expression) back to their country to feed their sister, her son, his baby mama, and three orphaned cousins is exactly "pledging allegiance" to their home country. It's not like they're sending money back to influence elections or pay off politicians.

reply posted on 24-7-2011 @ 06:40 PM by Sphota

reply to post by matito

Listen, it is only natural that a nation bordering another nation will have bleed over when it comes to culture and language. Keep in mind, this is the first time in the history of the planet that some 16 or so contiguous nations have a similar cultural and language background trailing from our border to Tierra del Fuego. No, none of them are identical, but Spanish of some dialect or another that tend to be mutually intelligible are spoken the whole way down.

Also, we have to keep in mind that when it comes to Texas westward, there were already Spanish speakers inhabiting this area from the mid to late 1500s. That's 300 years of population by the time the US and manifest destiny arrived. Mexico had just barely become independent when we had our war with them. There "old west" became our "old west", but the population centers like Santa Fe, San Antonio, Tucson, Los Angeles, San Francisco and San Diego were already populated by Spanish-speakers.

These are two important facts when considering why Spanish and why here and now.

reply posted on 24-7-2011 @ 06:57 PM by Sphota

Originally posted by matito
reply to post by LeTan

If you remove the comforts of having everything translated into spanish and eliminate all the bilingual spanish speakers that companies hire - then it would be more of a requirement to learn english and not just a choice. Why would they need to learn english if everything is translated into spanish and every company has someone who speaks spanish? It's no longer a necessity to speak english so they just don't care it seems. Any company hiring spanish speakers that do not speak fluent english are exacerbating and contributing to this issue. This is the root of the problem I believe.

I don't really agree or disagree. This is a matter of corporations considering the bottom line. It's the same reason they bring them here to work. It's the same reason a meat packing plant in Iowa has illegals. The same reason a grape plantation in the Central Valley of California will have illegals or guestworkers. It's the same reason the drugstore around the corner hiers foreigners on temporary or student work visas.

It's the bottom line. And the corporations, depending on the service they provide, know that they can garner a larger market share with Spanish exactly because 12% of the population speaks it.

Same thing with "china town" or any cultural community. If you go there I'm sure there are many who don't speak a word of english, simple because they do not have to. The difference is that there are thousands of "spanish towns" all over the US and these spanish speaking cultural communities are branching out and merging into all communities.

Well, it's easier for people to get here by land and boat (short distances) than it is to get Africans. That's why Europe doesn't have a prevalence of Latin American workers (except maybe in Spain; Brazilians who can get easier visas because of Italy and other nation's ethnic visas; and Haitians and Jamaicans who can find work in France and England - respectively).

The Spanish towns are greater in number because the phenomenon of (illegal) immigrant labor has never slowed. Unfortunately, capitalism is based on growth, and you need more and more workers to combat the leveling off effect of middle-class lifestyle (1.8 children and all that business).

Complete language Immersion is the best way to learn another language. By having everything available in spanish now, native spanish speakers have grown complacent over the years. Compared to thirty years ago when there was no spanish translations or translators and most spanish speakers were obligated to learn how to speak fluent english and they did.

Agreed. Immersion is the tried and true method of learning a language, starting at childhood, however. Depending on ability, not all who come here will learn English well if they arrive after the "critical period" of language development. Nevertheless, it is true that in generations past, Little Italies and German or Polish neighborhoods would have been enclaves for immigrants to feel secure in the comprehension and speaking abilities. The same is true for "barrios". But, you have to still remember that despite this scenario, there are no areas accept perhaps South Florida, the Mission district of SF, Spanish Harlem and downtown LA that are really dug in. And even there the second generation learns English.

People here sound like they are afraid of Montreal. But there is no Spanish-speaking area of this country that does not exist in the current century, with the current media conditions and access to English in public school. The same scenario is simply not possible, at least not for many more generations and maybe only in South Florida due to the isolation at the tip of a peninsula.

Now with presidential elections revving up, closely watch how all the candidates cater to spanish speakers to garnish votes. This same two sided mentality is a contributing factor as to why the US is now a English/Spanish speaking country. When convenient, non-english speaking native spanish speakers are accepted with open arms by corporations for profits and politicians for votes.

No argument here and it's the kind of pandering that means the negative, derogatory comments still occur behind closed doors.

edit on 23-7-2011 by matito because:

reply posted on 24-7-2011 @ 08:46 PM by matito

reply to post by Sphota

You make a good point. And many Americans forget this. So, I think we are on the same page.

The English language "immigrated" from England and is not the native language. Many other spoken languages in the US also originated from Europe. Spanish is actually one of the true native languages originating from the North American continent during the last few hundred years.

I don't think many Americans realize that it's also important for them to learn another language as well. Most other countries require learning a second language (mainly English) from grade school up. Many Europeans are bilingual (mostly those with English as their second language). Granted, European countries have much more proximity to foreign cultures and languages than the US.

No matter how much anyone fights it, Spanish is not going away. And to those who complain about Spanish speakers not learning to speak English, I say this. Once they do learn English, like demanded, expect them to start looking for better jobs - most likely higher paid English speaking jobs. Not learning English is hindering them and learning English is going to help them. When Spanish speakers learn English they will become a more powerful influence on our culture and work force. And they will still speak Spanish whenever they please.

So it's time to adapt or be left behind..

edit on 24-7-2011 by matito because:

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