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Pre-tribulation, Mid-Tribulation, or Post-tribulation rapture?

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posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


You have not posted a single scripture to explain why Jesus said everything in Matthew 24:4-28 has to happen before he can come back. And you know what, i'm about to post the whole thing.

Matthew 24:4-28

King James Version (KJV)

4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand


16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25Behold, I have told you before.

26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.




posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 09:02 PM
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Now why did Jesus say all that has to happen before he can come? Notice he said the great tribulations must happen before he talks about his 2nd coming.

Matthew 24:29-31

King James Version (KJV)

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Why would he say all of that has to happen if he is coming to rapture his church. He said NOTHING ABOUT THAT in verse 4-28. You cannot SHOW ME ONE SCRIPTURE where Jesus said he was coming secretly to rapture his church.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 09:06 PM
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Notice all of the scriptures i've posted have mentioned a great trumpet. There is only going to be ONE TRUMPET HEARD by the population of the earth. When this trumpet sounds, Jesus will raise the dead, and those who are on earth will be caught up in the clouds with Him, and he will descend back down to earth, where His foot will touch upon the Mt of Olives.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52

King James Version (KJV)

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMPET: for the TRUMPET shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

King James Version (KJV)

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

All of these scriptures talk about A TRUMPET. You cannot ignore this, no matter how bad you disagree with it.

Revelation 11:15

King James Version (KJV)

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

WHEN THIS 7TH TRUMPET SOUNDS, THAT IS WHEN JESUS'S 2ND COMING WILL HAPPEN. Not a minute sooner will this happen.
edit on 29-6-2011 by HolyandClean because: Add stuff.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 09:10 PM
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JESUS is going to destroy the Antichrist at his 2ND COMING. Why would Jesus destroy the Antichrist if he hasn't reigned yet. REVELATIONS SAYS THE ANTICHRIST HAS TO REIGN ON EARTH FOR A PERIOD OF TIME.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-8

King James Version (KJV)

2 Thessalonians 2

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Paul said here certain things have to happen before Jesus can come, TO NOT BE DECEIVED. A great falling away has to happen. The man of sin has to be revealed. As soon as Jesus returns to this earth, at his 2nd and only coming, he will consume the Antichrist with the SPIRIT OF HIS MOUTH, and destroy him with the BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING. Now that is scripture, I don't care what your beliefs say.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by HolyandClean
 

Why would Jesus destroy the Antichrist if he hasn't reigned yet.
There is no antichrist in Revelation. The Beast the image and the false Prophet.
The Man of Sin is Satan, who is already at work, and is hidden, doing his work behind the scenes.
Satan can not do as much harm as he would like because of a restraint put on him by God.
Jesus explained it by saying he say Satan fall, that was coincidal with the going out of the Gospel.
Once God determines the Gospel has made the world ripe for judgement, Satan will no longer be restrained and will demonstrate before the entire universe how much of a rebel he is against God, actually attempting to replace God from his throne.
I believe this process has already begun and the woes we are under right now will never relent untill the entire world is brought completely down.


edit on 29-6-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Wow. Did you purposely not just read anything I posted? Paul calls him the man of sin, who will sit in the temple of God, showing himself that he is god!

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

I doubt this man of sin can live for thousands of years. Jesus called him the Abomination of desolation.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 11:11 PM
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reply to post by HolyandClean
 

I doubt this man of sin can live for thousands of years. Jesus called him the Abomination of desolation.
Paul makes illusions to Old Testament references that speak as if there was a man who would fill these roles that would usher in the end of the world.
Back in the Old Testament, they did not have a whole theology built around the concept of a Satan.
Paul does not want to appear to be contradicting the older scripture so he defines this person in terms so that the reader would immediately draw the conclusion that he clearly meant Satan.



edit on 30-6-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 11:11 PM
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reply to post by HolyandClean
 



You have not posted a single scripture to explain why Jesus said everything in Matthew 24:4-28 has to happen before he can come back. And you know what, i'm about to post the whole thing.


I agree, all that does need to happen before Jesus comes back to rule and reign. The apostles didn't ask Him what signs needed to transpire before the great catching away of the church. That wasn't revealed to anyone until Paul did so in Thessalonians.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by HolyandClean
 

I doubt this man of sin can live for thousands of years. Jesus called him the Abomination of desolation.
Paul makes illusions to Old Testament references that speak as if there was a man who would fill these roles that would usher in the end of the world.
Back in the Old Testament, they did not have a whole theology built around the concept of a Satan.
Paul does not want to appear to be contradicting the older scripture so he defines this person in terms so that the reader would immediately draw the conclusion that he clearly meant Satan.



Then why is the beast and false prophet thrown into the lake of fire at His 2nd coming yet satan isn't cast there until 1,000 years later?



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Then why is the beast and false prophet thrown into the lake of fire at His 2nd coming yet satan isn't cast there until 1,000 years later?
They represent systems made up of individual people, who are mortal. Satan is naturally immortal and requires a bit more killing, except my explanation sort of buys into your timeline, which I do not accept.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Well, the beast isn't satan. Satan indwells the beast for a time as he did with Judas. The beast and his false prophet are cast into the lake of fire 1,000 years before satan is cast there.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jmdewey60
 

Well, the beast isn't satan. Satan indwells the beast for a time as he did with Judas. The beast and his false prophet are cast into the lake of fire 1,000 years before satan is cast there.

"The one who opposes" is the definition of Satan.
That was my point.
Looking for a future individual human being to be the antichrist is disinformation and misdirection.
The antichrist has always been working against us, but now in a more obvious way.
In order to identify the Beast, we need to look at what is happening right now.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



Looking for a future individual human being to be the antichrist is disinformation and misdirection.


No, the times that the term "THE" antichrist appears is "ho anticristos" in the Greek. The definite article "ho" (The) in Greek signifies a specific one. It's a minor thing in the English, Greek is fundamentally different with the usage of definite articles.



edit on 1-7-2011 by NOTurTypical because: spelling



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

No, the times that the term "THE" antichrist appears is "ho anticristos" in the Greek. The definite article "ho" (The) in Greek signifies a specific one. It's a minor thing in the English, Greek is fundamentally different with the usage of definite articles.
So?
That would make him an individual, I suppose, taking in what you just said.
It does not make him a human being.
There is Christ, who came from God and Heaven.
The opposite of the Son of God, or the "anti", is the Son of Perdition, meaning Satan.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 12:47 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



The opposite of the Son of God, or the "anti", is the Son of Perdition, meaning Satan.


The "son of perdition" was Judas. Named so by Jesus in John 17:12 and one of the 12 that was "lost". And the meaning of "Ante" in Greek is not opposite of, it means "in place of"

The antichrist is a pseudo Christ, not the opposite of Christ.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 04:09 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 08:08 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 08:10 PM
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reply to post by realone91
 


AMEN BROTHER. That's what I have been trying to tell him. But typical here, has been brainwashed into believing he is going to be given special privileges to escape the great tribulation.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 08:11 PM
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I just laugh to myself, all that guy has is his beliefs, no scriptures at all.


I read that whole thing you posted btw realone, and it was beautiful.
edit on 1-7-2011 by HolyandClean because: Add.


This is typical right here. Nothing more but a scoffer, walking after his own lusts. He does whatever he wants, thinking that just by being nice to people you can enter the kingdom. Not going to happen.

2 Peter 3:3-4

King James Version (KJV)

3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
edit on 1-7-2011 by HolyandClean because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by HolyandClean
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


If you don't have any scriptures, you have no reason to be here, understand? I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR OPINION. Haven't I made that clear yet?

Matthew 24:1-4

King James Version (KJV)

1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

I bolded it where they asked about the end of the world, and Jesus's 2nd coming. You have to be blind not to see it. If you cannot disprove every scripture I just posted, then you have no reason to be here.


That's EXACTLY what I said. Jesus's apostles asked Him when His 2nd coming to Earth would be. He answered them. The apostles could not have been asking Him when the catching away would be, it was not revealed until Paul first wrote about the "mystery" in the book of Thessalonians.

I agree, Jesus will return to Earth after those signs. I said this in my LAST post in regards to this.







 
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