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Pre-tribulation, Mid-Tribulation, or Post-tribulation rapture?

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posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by novastrike81
The Rapture isn't even biblical. It was an invention in the 19th century by a pastor called John Darby. You can piece it together with scripture from 1 Thessalonians, Matthew and the two in the field and one being left behind, and Daniel ch. 9 to make it sound biblical. He also placed the 7 year tribulation with Jesus' second coming. After that 7 year period will be Jesus' "second" second coming. It's just cherry picking the Bible to fit a popularized idea from the 19th century; nothing more, nothing less. Too bad people buy into this because it sounds biblical, even though it isn't.


Come on, a simple Google search will show you that is another myth. The teaching was re-popularized in the 19th century, but it existed in the first and 2nd century church. The thing that "hid" this teaching was Augustine's insistence on allegorizing everything prophetic from the NT. It was extremely unpopular as a state sponsored priest in the Roman Empire to be in the pulpit preaching how Jesus would return and destroy all the evil governments of the world when you were paid and supported by said "evil" government.

So everything was allegorized for centuries, the Reformation did wonderful things in the area of Soteriology, but the reformers didn't addresses the errors of Roman Catholic Eschatology.


You are a liar. And everyone here knows it. And i'm about to prove it right now.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-8

King James Version (KJV)

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

According to this, Paul says CERTAIN STUFF HAS TO HAPPEN before Jesus can come back. The Antichrist has to be around at Jesus's 2nd coming. That means the Antichrist has finished his reign by the time Jesus comes back to destroy him. JESUS IS GOING TO DESTROY HIM WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING.

Game over.. you lose.




posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by SaberTruth
 


You only see what you wanna see. You don't care for the truth obviously. You just want people to tickle your ears. You just want people to tell you what you wanna hear. I'm not doing that.





The scriptures say the elect are going to be on this planet too. The sooner you all face that, the sooner you can figure out what to do to save your life.



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by HolyandClean
 


Wow, such anger from you for a minor theological issue that has absolutely nothing to do with salvation. But alas, some people demand to major in the minors and minor in the majors.. but I digress. Reading the Bible differently than you doesn't make someone a "liar". That would take someone being deceitful on purpose. That would take me knowing X to be true and teaching Y. I believe in the rapture, I cannot by default be "lying" about it. Moving on..

The Greek word for "caught up" is Harpazo. This becomes "raptiro" in the Latin. Where theologians get the word "rapture" from. Do you deny this?



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by HolyandClean
 


What we need to do "to save our lives"?


"Whosoever wishes to save their life shall lose it, and whosoever loses his life for my sake shall find it."


Was Jesus wrong?


P.S. you can't scare Christians with going to meet Jesus. There is a huge reward for being a martyr.



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

They don't belive in a literal 1,000 year reign of Christ, on Earth, from David's throne in Jerusalem.
Traditional denominations would not teach that because it is not traditional.
This teaching was invented when the Elders of Zion decided to make a new "Israel for the Jews" in Palestine, back in the 1880's.



Absurd. Gabriel told Mary her Son would sit on the throne of David and rule forever. The throne of David was non-existent in that day. The king of Judea was appointed by the Romans and was not of the line of David.



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Gabriel told Mary her Son would sit on the throne of David and rule forever.
How do you get 1,000 years out of "forever"?
Seems someone has distorted the original Christian teachings, and turned them into something else, to suite their own political agenda. Such as turning Jerusalem from a Muslim and Christian city, into a Jewish city.
Sorry you got sucked into this evil of promoting genocide by the modern day Israelis.



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Jerusalem was the city of David before 33 AD, not sure I'm following you brother. And Christ's reighn will be forever, that's what the dream Daniel had with the rock cut without hands that smashes the statue resembling human government on Earth is.



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Jerusalem was the city of David before 33 AD, not sure I'm following you brother.
In 1948, Jerusalem was a Muslim city. Something had to happen to turn it from that, to the so-called capital of so-called Israel. That something was a lot of displacement of it's rightful inhabitants, something allowed by people indoctrinated into an ideology created by the Jews to subvert Christianity, all this made-up so-called eschatology which did not exist before the powerful money oligarchs set their sites on re-taking the area for themselves, at all costs, including paying ministers to preach such nonsense that we have to support this group of thugs who have taken a holy name to themselves, to cover some very unholy deeds.



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


I'm going to be kind and say that having a strict hermaneutical approach to scripture is not "nonsense" in my humble opinion. Not all Christians adhere to replacement theology doctrine.

Is that okay with you? Most people don't realize this but the muslims let Jerusalem go to ruins before 1948, they wanted nothing to do with it before it was given to the Jews. And if you really want to get technical who's land was Israel's when the temples were being built?



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 
When was Jerusalem "given" to the Jews?
I don't remember that happening.
It was an act of war, and they occupied it.
Since then, they have been constantly breaking international law by moving their own people into occupied land, which is illegal.
And what is "replacement theology?, that Christians inherited the promises to Israel, through Christ?
If that is what you mean, I would say that makes you a Jew, or someone who wants to be subservient to the Jews, not a Christian.



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Show me scripture or get out of here. I don't care about your opinion. Show me where Jesus in Matthew 24:1-28 where he was coming to rapture the church. Cause the apostles asked him what would be the sign of his coming, and the end of the world. Surely if he was coming to rapture the church, he would have told them. You are just a liar, like Harold Camp.



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 06:50 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


As I said before my post was erased, Christianity was created in 34 AD. The rapture doctrine was "MADE UP" in 1802.



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Nowhere in the Bible does it say Christianity is the true church. You cannot show me one scripture that says anything like that.



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


The only bad thing about it is when you die, you are dead, until the resurrection. Nothing glorious about death.



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by HolyandClean
Show me scripture or get out of here. I don't care about your opinion.


THIS is what passes for Christian these days??

THIS is what message boards are for? Ever heard of blogs, where you can disable comments?

Wow.



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by SaberTruth
 


Not a Christian! You do not have to be a Christian to inherit eternal life..

Matthew 19:16-19

King James Version (KJV)

16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

This is what you have to do to become righteous! Don't classify yourself as part of any religion. Religion was created to separate! And that's exactly what it does. My doctrine brings people together. Regardless of what our beliefs are, what we should have in common is that we keep the laws, statutes, commandments, holy days, and the faith in Jesus.



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


BTW, you cannot be born again until the RESURRECTION!

John 3:1-5

King James Version (KJV)

1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Listen to what Jesus told Nicodemus here. Nicodemus asked how we could be born again? Do we enter into our mother's womb a second time? Then Jesus said, except a man be born of WATER and SPIRIT, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. What is born of water? That is baptism. What is born of spirit? That means having your spiritual body, which will be given to you at the resurrection. So you see, you physically cannot be born again until the resurrection. You have to be born of water, and spirit to be born again.



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by HolyandClean
reply to post by jmdewey60
 

Nowhere in the Bible does it say Christianity is the true church. You cannot show me one scripture that says anything like that.
Not sure what you are getting upset about here.
There is a true church, don't you think?
I am using the word, Christian, as a generic term, meaning all those who believe, and are in the body of Christ.
I don't see how you can get that I am promoting a particular denomination.
What I was trying to get at is, that there is a basic concept in Christianity that what promises were given to the ancient Israelites was transferred to those who believe in Jesus and we are adopted as sons of God through him.
I am contrasting that with people who apparently reject that idea and believe there is a master race out there who will rule the world, no matter how evil they may be, because in their mind, God promised it, and so it has to happen.



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


But Jesus didn't sit on the throne of David. I do have a few questions though:

When was Jesus anointed as king by a prophet or a high priest?
When did Jesus sit on the throne of David?
When did Jesus lead the people into great compliance with the law?
When did Jesus gather the exiles and rule the nations?



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by HolyandClean
reply to post by SaberTruth
 


Not a Christian!

Well color me surprised. That's sarcasm, by the way.


You do not have to be a Christian to inherit eternal life..

Your quote is before the cross and has nothing to do with the many things that changed after that. Now if you ever do want to become a Christian, I can tell you how. But I can also tell you that with that arrogant, condescending attitude of yours, it won't be easy. And I don't take orders from unbelievers trying to ram a text they don't grasp down my throat.




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