Pre-tribulation, Mid-Tribulation, or Post-tribulation rapture?

According to the Bible, and according to Jesus and Paul, the "being caught up in the clouds" will not happen until the great tribulations if over. NOW, this is very important. Read what I'm about to post. Do not just comment because you disagree with what I just said! Look at the SCRIPTURES first. They should have the last word in any debate regarding following God. I know people are going to ignore this anyway, because they will harden their hearts, and not want to hear the Word of God.

Let's start with what Jesus said.

According to Jesus, everything in Matthew 24:4-28 has to happen before he can come back. That apostles asked him what would be the sign of His coming, and the end of the world. Jesus starts to name things that would happen. He also says great tribulation shall happen. And He says if He didn't shorten those days, NO FLESH would be left alive, but for HIS ELECT'S sake, He will shorten those days. So His ELECT has to be on this planet at that time, right? Keep reading.

Matthew 24:29-31

King James Version (KJV)

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus said right here, immediately after the tribulation of those days, shall the Son of Man appear in the sky with power and great glory, and everyone on this earth shall mourn. AFTER THE TRIBULATIONS, is when his second coming will happen. Still not convinced? Let's see what Paul had to say about it. Keep reading.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-10

King James Version (KJV)

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Paul says here, that Jesus Christ second coming cannot happen until other things happen first. The great falling away has to happen. The man of sin, or the Antichrist has to be revealed. Now listen to this, Paul says at Jesus's 2nd coming, Jesus is going to consume the antichrist with the spirit of His mouth, and destroy him with the brightness of His coming. WHY WOULD JESUS DESTROY THE ANTICHRIST IF HE HASN'T HAD HIS REIGN YET?! The Bible says the antichrist has to reign on earth for period. He has to for prophecy to be fulfilled! Still not convinced? Let's look at some more of Paul's writings.

Thessalonians 4:16-17

King James Version (KJV)

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the Trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Did you catch that? With a trumpet of God! Keep reading.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52

King James Version (KJV)

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

At the LAST TRUMPET will all of this happen. Both of these scriptures mention a trumpet. Both of these scriptures are used to justify a rapture, when in fact, they are speaking of the end of the tribulations. The last trumpet judgment ends the great tribulations. That's the last judgment of God! How do I know this? Keep reading!

Revelation 11:15

King James Version (KJV)

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The seventh angel with the 7th trumpet sounds, and there were GREAT VOICES in heaven saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ, and he SHALL REIGN FOR EVER AND EVER.

Which means we need to start facing the facts that we may be on this planet when all the bad stuff happens.. cause the scriptures are clear some of the saints are going to die..

I'm curious. Did Christ say these things, or did "crazy visions of Christ" by an old man hiding from the Romans say these things.

Something tells me that there is a difference.

reply to post by TheOneElectric


Gee, that was a quick read. Did you even analyze this? I guess not.

The rapture will not happen like millions preach. It will be very different. The great Tribulation has already happened, from 538 A.D., to 1798 A.D. (go to this link to read about the tribulation: www.remnantofgod.org... )


If you have the time, go to the following link to learn the truth about the rapture. www.remnantofgod.org...

Originally posted by HolyandClean
reply to post by TheOneElectric

 

Gee, that was a quick read. Did you even analyze this? I guess not.

Someone needs a bit of Humble Pie, can you explain why the church is not mentioned at all in revelations after chapter 6 to chapter 19 or so?

Originally posted by jeramie
The rapture will not happen like millions preach. It will be very different. The great Tribulation has already happened, from 538 A.D., to 1798 A.D. (go to this link to read about the tribulation: www.remnantofgod.org... )


If you have the time, go to the following link to learn the truth about the rapture. www.remnantofgod.org...

Show me where God destroyed a one hundred million man army. Cause everything in revelations has to happen in the great tribulations, and after. If the great tribulations has already happened, then Christ should be reigning on earth with His foes as His footstool.

Before this thread gets too long I have to say I agree with the "Post-Tribulations".

Many Christians today, even famous pastors like Chuck Smith will say Pre-Trib, because they say the 24 Elders are those who come to Christ after the Rapture, but it doesn't make sense. An Elder is someone old, essentially, and t he Church started after Christ, nearly 2000 years ago, so why aren't the Elders chosen from someone who lived over a thousands of years ago?

I don't know. I heard a great saying from one of these pastors earlier this year (can't remember his name) but it was at a prophecy convention and they asked the pastors what they thought, and were asked to give a percent. Well, like 4/5 of them said nearly 99% or 100% Pre-Trib, except for him, he said 60% Post Trib, which I generally agree with.

A lot of people don't like to accept that fact, but God does indeed say he'll spare his children from HIS wrath - and his wrath is only, I'd assume, the last 40 days before the end? (My guess) The Earth won't survive 7 years of His Wrath, it's 3 1/2 of false peace - most likely Christians getting persecuted because we'll be targeted as the Enemy (I think it's obvious how many people here on ATS alone are willing to lynch a group of Christians...), then a moment in between, possibly the rapture occurring there? or another 3 1/2 years to the end, and 40 days before the final day the rapture will occur.

Of course this is all just my guesstimates, but it seems to be plausible.

reply to post by daikaiju


Revelation 14:12

King James Version (KJV)

12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Seems like they are mentioned in there to me? I guess you hadn't read revelations.

Perry Stone has the most information about this that I know of. We had one of his DVD's but we loaned it to our pastor, and then swapped churches. I'm reasonably certain you can find him online...

Originally posted by Lionhearte
Before this thread gets too long I have to say I agree with the "Post-Tribulations".

Many Christians today, even famous pastors like Chuck Smith will say Pre-Trib, because they say the 24 Elders are those who come to Christ after the Rapture, but it doesn't make sense. An Elder is someone old, essentially, and t he Church started after Christ, nearly 2000 years ago, so why aren't the Elders chosen from someone who lived over a thousands of years ago?

I don't know. I heard a great saying from one of these pastors earlier this year (can't remember his name) but it was at a prophecy convention and they asked the pastors what they thought, and were asked to give a percent. Well, like 4/5 of them said nearly 99% or 100% Pre-Trib, except for him, he said 60% Post Trib, which I generally agree with.

A lot of people don't like to accept that fact, but God does indeed say he'll spare his children from HIS wrath - and his wrath is only, I'd assume, the last 40 days before the end? (My guess) The Earth won't survive 7 years of His Wrath, it's 3 1/2 of false peace - most likely Christians getting persecuted because we'll be targeted as the Enemy (I think it's obvious how many people here on ATS alone are willing to lynch a group of Christians...), then a moment in between, possibly the rapture occurring there? or another 3 1/2 years to the end, and 40 days before the final day the rapture will occur.

Of course this is all just my guesstimates, but it seems to be plausible.

You are very blessed to know what you know.

God has promised protection for his church.. everyone here needs to know what to do when the time comes.. you need to FLEE when you see the antichrist stand in the newly built temple.. cause Jesus told us to flee in Matthew 24.



This will tell you all what you need to do to save your life. If you do not flee when the time comes, you will be caught up in the great tribulations. The great tribulations is going to be so bad that people are going to come out of it weeping!

Originally posted by HolyandClean
reply to post by daikaiju

 

Revelation 14:12

King James Version (KJV)

12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Seems like they are mentioned in there to me? I guess you hadn't read revelations.

That is in reference to the 144,000 who will preach the word during the tribulation.

And stop being so rude, not very christlike at all,I have and continue to read Revelations but due to a brain injury I sustained I cannot quote as well as I used to so please do not assume.

Rev 3:10 "Because you have kept my admonition to endure steadfastly, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come on the whole world to test those who live on the earth."

Sounds to me that verse hints to a Pre trib rapture,but I could be wrong.

reply to post by HolyandClean


Thanks for that link, I'm watching it now.

It's true I've been blessed with a family who knows and taught me what I know, and we've been preparing for a long time now, when God says to flee, we're fleeing. No electronics, only our bare hands and the knowledge of the land, to survive for the 1335 days.

reply to post by daikaiju


How am I being rude? I haven't said anything out of the way to anyone. I only care about everyone's best interest, which is why i'm warning people. Most people are going to be caught off guard by the great tribulations, because Jesus said so. The rapture doctrine totally makes people let down their defenses, which is VERY BAD. Most people are going to give up their faith when they realize that their is not going to be a rapture, and when they are about to get beheaded..

You people say you won't take the mark now, but that's because nobody isn't torturing you right now. They torture you long enough, you might just give in.

Originally posted by Lionhearte
reply to post by HolyandClean

 

Thanks for that link, I'm watching it now.

It's true I've been blessed with a family who knows and taught me what I know, and we've been preparing for a long time now, when God says to flee, we're fleeing. No electronics, only our bare hands and the knowledge of the land, to survive for the 1335 days.

Amen! You are indeed blessed to have a family like that. Most people get disowned by their families when they start walking with God.

Originally posted by daikaiju

Originally posted by HolyandClean
reply to post by daikaiju

 

Revelation 14:12

King James Version (KJV)

12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Seems like they are mentioned in there to me? I guess you hadn't read revelations.

That is in reference to the 144,000 who will preach the word during the tribulation.

And stop being so rude, not very christlike at all,I have and continue to read Revelations but due to a brain injury I sustained I cannot quote as well as I used to so please do not assume.

Rev 3:10 "Because you have kept my admonition to endure steadfastly, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come on the whole world to test those who live on the earth."

Sounds to me that verse hints to a Pre trib rapture,but I could be wrong.

edit on 16/6/2011 by daikaiju because: (no reason given)

Please, just watch the video I posted.

Originally posted by HolyandClean
reply to post by daikaiju

 

How am I being rude? I haven't said anything out of the way to anyone. I only care about everyone's best interest, which is why i'm warning people. Most people are going to be caught off guard by the great tribulations, because Jesus said so. The rapture doctrine totally makes people let down their defenses, which is VERY BAD. Most people are going to give up their faith when they realize that their is not going to be a rapture, and when they are about to get beheaded..

You people say you won't take the mark now, but that's because nobody isn't torturing you right now. They torture you long enough, you must just give in.

With the strength of God I will resist the mark if there is no pre-trib rapture.

But please comment on the verse I posted.

reply to post by daikaiju


You right, Jesus did promise a way out for his saints. Watch the video!

Revelation 14:12

King James Version (KJV)

12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 14:12 is talking about all the saints, in general. Not just the 144,000. The 144,000 are only from the 12 tribes of Israel. 12,000 from each tribe. No gentiles are in the 144,000. Gentiles are white [Caucasian] or Asian.

I'm a gentile.

Originally posted by HolyandClean
reply to post by daikaiju

 

You right, Jesus did promise a way out for his saints. Watch the video!

Revelation 14:12

King James Version (KJV)

12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 14:12 is talking about all the saints, in general. Not just the 144,000. The 144,000 are only from the 12 tribes of Israel. 12,000 from each tribe. No gentiles are in the 144,000. Gentiles are white [Caucasian] or Asian.

I'm a gentile.

edit on 16-6-2011 by HolyandClean because: Add

interesting video but I want to hear more, do you have the link to the rest of the sermon.

Gentiles are white or asian?

What then are the blacks, hispanic, native american, and the rest?

reply to post by daikaiju


Good question. According to the Bible, they are the Israelites!



Here is the whole video. I've been learning under these "Jews" for a couple of years, and the stuff they have taught me is ASTOUNDING! They have to be the true Jews, how could know all of these mysteries unless they are the true chosen people of God?

Originally posted by HolyandClean
reply to post by daikaiju

 

Good question. According to the Bible, they are the Israelites!

Can you please direct me to where in the bible it says that.