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Originally posted by OnTheLevel213
Originally posted by Watts
1. That's your opinion. In my opinion its clearly him. And considering the following images from his clothing line, I really don't see what there is to question.
Jay-Z also calls himself J-Hovah, and his record label Roc-a-Fella. That doesn't make him God or a scion of New York quasi-royalty; it makes him someone who's attracted to things that communicate "power".
And then there's the hand-sign which has the exact shape of the compass square thing. Think about it, people try to say its just a "diamond" but at no point has Rocafella/Rocafella Records used a diamond as a logo, symbol or identifying mark. Clearly masonic in nature even if the sheep that happily mimic him don't know it.
If it was so "clearly Masonic", you would think it would feature anywhere in Masonic ritual. It does not.
Just for effect, here he is wearing a shirt with a quote from the beast himself, Aleister Crowely
Who was a fake Freemason, and admitted as much when he rewrote OTO ritual to remove Masonic influence.
2. Unless you're willing to say the photographer just grabbed a random black guy to stand in for Obama
Read the caption again. The picture is not of Obama, but of a White House official setting the Presidential seal.
Obama is in fact a mason.
Lodge name and number, please.
Any logically thinking mind can see what the deal is. I've had enough discussions with die-hard fans to know that no amount of evidence will make them believe their "demi-god" is at the very least, very involved with the Freemasons if not a member.
I haven't bought a Jay-Z album since The Blueprint, and his latest single really, really sucks, so I'm hardly die-hard. At the same time, I actually know something about Freemasonry, and how it handles its members. I refer you to my thread on Anders Breivik; to believe that Freemasons would rush to admit a mass murderer was indeed a member but conceal a popular artist is absurd on its face.
The odd thing about this is, if you replaced the freemason symbollism with any other symbol, like a crucifix, people wouldn't say "He's not a Christian, he's just playing around with the symbols."
I've actually said the very same in this post.
Whatever tho... I understand the blue pill is easier to swallow. Its all good.
Right. Everyone else is just choosing the more appealing worldview. Not you; you're too alert and super-smart and extra-special for that, and oh look, your worldview confirms that for you. What a crazy coincidence.edit on 10-8-2011 by OnTheLevel213 because: clarification
Originally posted by Watts
1. You further my point of what he's drawn to and gives more weight to the notion that he would seek to be a part of a "powerful" fraternal order.
2. Did I say it was an official masonic hand sign or a hand gesture that reflects a symbol of freemasons?
3. My point wasn't that he was a freemason
Freemasons speak often the light-bearer. Are you denying that?? I hope not.
Why would Jay-z wear a shirt featuring a quote he doesn't believe in?
4. Nowhere on that entire picture does it say those are the hands of a white house official. Nowhere.
And just for the hell of it, lets say you're right(even though this thread isn't even about him), Obama isn't a freemason. That doesn't change a single thing about Jay-Z.
I take it you're compelled to believe they rush to parade around every single member of stature?
Point being, just because they admit to one person being a member, doesn't mean that's an all-encompassing rule where they make it a point to single out EVERY member who is in some position of power or relevance.
That can't be argued. There's thousands of members in places of high stature, politically and monetarily, that they haven't paraded around.
6. Actually its not "me against everyone else" as you're trying to imply. There's just as many, if not MORE people that believe he is a mason
There's a debate here for a reason, some people think he is, some think he isn't.
If you didn't, then we have a very different definition of "clearly". If something is "clearly" Masonic, shouldn't it have a place in Freemasonry?
That is, however, the point of the thread, and you've defended the affirmative.
the point was that he's a luciferian... a worshipper of the "light-bearer".
About a third of this planet is. The exception is that most call Him Jesus.
Certain Masons have used the term in works tangentially related to Freemasonry, but it's hardly characteristic of the Craft.
A White House official ("staffer" may be the more appropriate term) is responsible for affixing the seal of the President to a podium where the President is speaking, and removing it when he is finished. The caption identifies the photo as being of this process.
No, but the policies regarding which Masons are and are not public information seem absurd when you look at who has been acknowledged and who is supposedly "hidden".
Then a few examples shouldn't be a big deal.
I'd love to know on what evidence you're making this claim. Who was polled? How was the poll conducted? How do you know the numbers of people who assume a conspiracy theory to be correct?
Originally posted by Watts
Freemasons don't worship Jesus, by the look of your ATS name you should know this. Lucifer, the proper noun exalted in Freemasonry and Luciferianism is in no way synonymous with Jesus Christ. Luciferianism is the focusing on and praising of the "good" that was in Lucifer(the pronoun) prior to his fall from grace and subsequent renaming to "Satan." Either way its still Satan worship.
To allude that Freemasons/Luciferians are really worshipping Jesus is deceptive.
Originally posted by Watts
That can't be argued. There's thousands of members in places of high stature, politically and monetarily, that they haven't paraded around.
Originally posted by OnTheLevel213
Then a few examples shouldn't be a big deal.
Originally posted by Watts
Ty Cob dead
Jack Dempsey dead
Sugar Ray Robinson dead
Garret Morgan dead
Nat King Cole dead
Medgar Evers dead
Jesse Jackson brain dead
Duke Ellington dead
W.E.B. DuBois dead
Thurgood Marshall dead
Richard Pryor!! dead
Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Originally posted by Watts
Ty Cob dead
Jack Dempsey dead
Sugar Ray Robinson dead
Garret Morgan dead
Nat King Cole dead
Medgar Evers dead
Jesse Jackson brain dead
Duke Ellington dead
W.E.B. DuBois dead
Thurgood Marshall dead
Richard Pryor!! dead
Originally posted by thelobp
What i dont get is, if its freemason meeting then why is someone in there taking photos to spread around? if these guys are supposed to be so super sectrative then i cant imagine they would be distributing pictures of thier meetings online.
Originally posted by Watts
Its already been suggested that its probably not an official meeting given the presence of women and open windows...more likely its a funeral or something. But it can't be argued that these men aren't freemasons.
Originally posted by Watts
"Clearly" as in, its not symbollic of a diamond..."Clearly" as in the sign clearly resembles the shape of the square.
They've never at any point had a diamond associated with their brand/label/music.
Freemasons don't worship Jesus, by the look of your ATS name you should know this.
Lucifer, the proper noun exalted in Freemasonry and Luciferianism
is in no way synonymous with Jesus Christ.
Luciferianism is the focusing on and praising of the "good" that was in Lucifer(the pronoun) prior to his fall from grace and subsequent renaming to "Satan." Either way its still Satan worship.
To allude that Freemasons/Luciferians are really worshipping Jesus is deceptive.
Freemasons endorse Lucifer as the "Great Architect of the Universe".
I've been told that first hand but since I know that doesn't stand in an online discussion feel free to look it up and draw the connections yourself. I encourage it, although I have a feeling you won't bother.
The piece that photo is from was published on May 24, 2008. Obama didn't win the election until Nov 2008... hence the title of the piece identifying him as Senator...
Like I said, if you're willing to believe they grabbed a totally random black guy for the photo and in some insane example of oversight failed to request that said random black guy remove his Freemason ring for the photo where his hands would be prominently featured, be my guest.
That's still basing your argument on what YOU would do if you were in charge of their "public relations" not an established rule that any notable member must be pointed out and paraded around for all to see.
Ty Cob
Jack Dempsey
Sugar Ray Robinson
Garret Morgan
Nat King Cole
Medgar Evers
Jesse Jackson
Duke Ellington
W.E.B. DuBois
Thurgood Marshall
Richard Pryor!!
This isn't even a fraction of notable freemasons that most people probably never knew were members.
Neutrally speaking, when your roster includes so many notable people you don't have to "toot your own horn" as you seem to expect they should be required to do.
To expect that they would run to hoist Jay-Z up on their shoulders and prance around town and that their not having done so somehow means he's definitely not a member is silly.
Its really not that hard to get a good idea of how many people think he's a mason dude.
you can logically deduce there must be a bunch of other people out there that think the same thing.
And you didn't address why he would use freemason symbols so prominently in his apparel and why he would even be interested in doing so if he had no ties whatsoever to the organization.
That's like if I was to deny being a Christian but then have an entire season of clothes promoting Christianity in multiple ways using both phrases and symbols.