Originally posted by Watts
"Clearly" as in, its not symbollic of a diamond..."Clearly" as in the sign clearly resembles the shape of the square.
Neither of those are "clear" except in your own opinion. I personally don't see how one can objectively look at a four-cornered symbol and say it
looks more like a six-pointed symbol than another four-cornered one.
They've never at any point had a diamond associated with their brand/label/music.
Except to repeatedly call said symbol the diamond, shorten their brand's name to "The Roc" (rock being a slang term for diamond), and record
several songs referring to a diamond being forever. I'd say those are pretty strong associations.
Freemasons don't worship Jesus, by the look of your ATS name you should know this.
Most Freemasons are Christian, but Freemasonry itself is not, which is why I never said it was or anything like it.
Lucifer, the proper noun exalted in Freemasonry and Luciferianism
I'm guessing you're the person who's found the long-lost mention of Lucifer in Masonic ritual. Please post this; we're all dying to know.
is in no way synonymous with Jesus Christ.
Actually, in the only original text of the Bible which includes the term "Lucifer" at all (the Vulgate) refers to Jesus by exactly that term.
Luciferianism is the focusing on and praising of the "good" that was in Lucifer(the pronoun) prior to his fall from grace and subsequent
renaming to "Satan." Either way its still Satan worship.
Not a word of that is biblical, and even less is Masonic.
To allude that Freemasons/Luciferians are really worshipping Jesus is deceptive.
Which is why I didn't. Read it again.
Moreover, to allude that Freemasons are Satanists is absurd.
Freemasons endorse Lucifer as the "Great Architect of the Universe".
False. That title refers to God.
I've been told that first hand but since I know that doesn't stand in an online discussion feel free to look it up and draw the connections
yourself. I encourage it, although I have a feeling you won't bother.
I have. Several times. I've seen every argument the lunatic fringe has proffered on the subject. I've yet to find anything remotely true.
The piece that photo is from was published on May 24, 2008. Obama didn't win the election until Nov 2008... hence the title of the piece
identifying him as Senator...
Then it can't be Obama anyway, as the caption clearly refers to the presidential seal being affixed.
Like I said, if you're willing to believe they grabbed a totally random black guy for the photo and in some insane example of oversight failed
to request that said random black guy remove his Freemason ring for the photo where his hands would be prominently featured, be my guest.
Is it somehow more believable that Barack Obama was simultaneously a Democratic Senator and on the staff of George W. Bush?
That's still basing your argument on what YOU would do if you were in charge of their "public relations" not an established rule that any
notable member must be pointed out and paraded around for all to see.
No, it's based on the fact that well-known Masons have, in every example I've ever seen, been proudly acknowledged by the Craft, and the fact that
it's incredibly easy to verify Masonic membership.
Sugar Ray Robinson
Nat King Cole
This isn't even a fraction of notable freemasons that most people probably never knew were members.
To a man, I was able to find the lodge name, lodge number, and initiated/passed/raised dates of each, all on Masonic websites.
Neutrally speaking, when your roster includes so many notable people you don't have to "toot your own horn" as you seem to expect they
should be required to do.
I never said that. I said it's ludicrous that no one would have been able to verify his membership, as in every single one of your
To expect that they would run to hoist Jay-Z up on their shoulders and prance around town and that their not having done so somehow means he's
definitely not a member is silly.
I didn't say Masonry itself had the responsibility; I said that those claiming Jay-Z was a Freemason had a responsibility to show evidence for it.
Its really not that hard to get a good idea of how many people think he's a mason dude.
were the one who said "as many, if not more, people think he's a Freemason." Condescending Google links are not evidence of that.
You've shortened the goalposts by about twenty yards here.
you can logically deduce there must be a bunch of other people out there that think the same thing.
"A bunch" was not your claim, and it's not what I addressed.
And you didn't address why he would use freemason symbols so prominently in his apparel and why he would even be interested in doing so if he
had no ties whatsoever to the organization.
Actually, I did. He's attracted to the image of power, for which Freemasonry has an (undeserved) reputation. You decided this was "evidence", and
when I pointed out that it was meaningless, you forgot I addressed it.
That's like if I was to deny being a Christian but then have an entire season of clothes promoting Christianity in multiple ways using both
phrases and symbols.
Do you also believe Jay-Z is the scion of a wealthy New York family? DO you believe he's Kanye West's literal big brother? Do you believe he's God
Himself? I mean, as long as we're taking Jay-Z references absolutely literally....