Childhood diseases return as parents refuse vaccines

What a thread!

And yet there would be NO argument at all if one portion of people were not attempting to force another portion of people to have a treatment they do not want, do not believe in, do not approve in!

This thread shows the way society is going. People wish to FORCE their own way on other people. For example, I believe in the US children cannot attend school if not vaccinated. Now that is called FORCE!

Are we a freen society or are we a coerced, threatened, intimidated and forced society?

The answer is self evident!

But do we want to live like this, in constant fear of what men in suits and white coats claim one day and then change another?

It is a crazy world with half awake people who don't want to think for themselves and are offended when others choose to think for themselves!

reply to post by Elliot


If this was about people deciding about themselves to be vaccinated or not, I would have no problem with it. But this is about who will decide this complex and potentially life threatening issue about the children, who cannot decide for themselves. Parents or their doctors?

As with any potentially life threatening medical issue, I think the decision should be made by childs doctor, not parent. Parents can decide only about non life threatening problems. Thats why for example Jehovas witnesses cannot refuse transfusions for their child.

This has been a long suspected outcome of the anti-vaxxers refusal to vaccinate their children; the return of childhood illnesses such as measles.

Really, OP? Has it?

Until the swine flu "outbreak" was shown for the scam it really was a couple of years ago, there was little concern about any "anti-vaccine movement." This scam also drew attention to the recent research into the vaccine/autism connection. The opposition to vaccines is understandable given the information that is available on the topic. Previous to this, most parents, like myself, didn't really have too much concern about vaccinating their kids, and are generally required to do it before they enter school anyway. Measles vaccinations are one of the first vax children get, and it's been this way for decades now in America. I'm sure a large majority of parents new to this anti-vaccine campaign have children who were vaccinated before they began to oppose to this practice.

This new propaganda that implies the anti-vaccine people are responsible for the outbreak of Measles is laughable. I also wonder about the underlying tone of this article, which is accompanied by a photo of an African-American child and his mother supposedly depicting Landon and his mother.. The article says Landon contracted the Measles while living briefly in a homeless shelter. It never says he failed to receive a Measles vaccination, nor does it state his mother has anti-vaccine sentiments, or that she failed or refused to have him immunized for it. However, the article emphasizes the fact the child is black, poor, and contracted the disease from a homeless shelter. What is being implied here? Is it that Landon got the Measles because his mother refused to vaccinate him against the disease? Are they suggesting he contracted the disease from another child who's parents followed the anti-vaccine philosophy? Or are they trying to imply the parents of the "anti-vaccine movement" are generally poor and living in homeless shelters?

Your article states:

Although overall vaccine coverage remains high, 40% of parents say they have deliberately skipped or delayed a shot for their children.

Forty percent of what parents "say" this? Forty percent of ALL parents? Nobody has asked me what my views on vaccines are, so I know I'm not one of those 40 percent. I don't know anyone else who's been asked either. Even if 40 percent of all parents in America have stated this, it has no relevance to this alleged "Measles outbreak" unless they can prove that this is one of the vaccines that these parents "deliberately skipped or delayed" getting for their children.

If you are going to sit there and claim the people who have become part of this growing "anti-vaccine movement " are responsible for the reappearance of this disease, then you are going to have to provide much more proof than this, especially in America, where the majority of the population has been vaccinated for it as a requirement to be enrolled in school.

Another quote from your article:

Parents who decline vaccines may not realize that they're gambling with the lives of not just their kids, but all the children around them, says Patsy Stinchfield,

Parents who decline vaccines have made a decision to do so for reasons they believe to be valid. It is their child, their decision. They should not be coerced, badgered or be made to feel guilty for decisions of this nature. The argument that parents who decline vax are "gambling with the lives of all the children around them" is an over-dramatization to say the least.

Originally posted by Griffo
This has been a long suspected outcome of the anti-vaxxers refusal to vaccinate their children; the return of childhood illnesses such as measles.

A 4 year old boy called Landon was living in a homeless shelter when he first became ill. He started with a fever of ~40*C, then proceeded to develop a rash on his forehead. The rash then spread to his mouth and throat, so swallowing was torture. He began vomiting and developed a cough that nearly choked him. He was rushed to the emergency room and hospitalized for five days.

Wow just wow the people who dont want their kid to be injected with god knows what are now responsible for the homless are you for real. I just dont see how you jump to that conclusion.

Originally posted by Griffo

Landon is one of at least 152 cases of measles diagnosed in the USA so far this year — twice the number seen in a typical year and the biggest outbreak in 15 years, says the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Half of patients have had to be hospitalized.

For the doctors and nurses caring for patients like Landon, the return of vaccine-preventable diseases such as measles — a viral illness that once killed 3,000 to 5,000 Americans a year — is both frightening and all too predictable

Not to mention a waste of time and resources that could have been spent elsewhere on other patients. Instead we have preventable diseases clogging up the healthcare system, potentially putting others lives in danger

In the past three years, doctors also have seen outbreaks of other vaccine-preventable diseases, such as mumps, whooping cough and a life-threatening bacterial infection called Hib. All can be deadly.

Yes and to any common medical pro because virus mutates so vaccines dont work forever. Still not seeing what this has to do with the people who refuse to inject their kids with what ever is in thoes needles.

Originally posted by Griffo
Although overall vaccine coverage remains high, 40% of parents say they have deliberately skipped or delayed a shot for their children.

I am sure we all love our children and know whats best for them but I am willing to wager that some if not a lot of that 40% that was skipped or delayed was for other purpose maybe they where tight on bills or had to make the house payment so their kid did not end up in a homless shelter etc...

Originally posted by Griffo
It goes on to say:

In some ways, vaccines are a victim of their own success. Today's parents have never seen the diseases that terrified their grandparents, says Paul Offit, chief of infectious disease at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. "We've not only eliminated these diseases; we've eliminated the memory of these diseases," Offit says.

Parents who decline vaccines may not realize that they're gambling with the lives of not just their kids, but all the children around them, says Patsy Stinchfield, director of pediatric infectious disease at Children's Hospitals and Clinics of Minnesota,

"This is not just a personal choice, a case of 'I choose not to vaccinate my child, and this only affects my family,'" says Finkelstein-Parker, of Littleston, Pa. "It affects your whole community."

I will not try to debunk the value of a good vaccine. But what these people need to realize is that if their vaccine worked really worked your kids not having them would not affect your whole community unless you are telling me that you can get the virus or whatever and die even after having the vaccine If you are then their is no point in taking them in the first place and they lost your argument for you. I say arguement because i dont see a clinical study.

Originally posted by Griffo
I urge you to seriously consider vaccinating your child. Unless you want to see more outbreaks of entirely preventable diseases

Childhood diseases return as parents refuse vaccines

I urge people who think its ok to tell people how to raise their own kids mind their own business instead. I mean what if people where trying to tell you that stabbing your child with a liquid filled metal shive was child abuse I am sure they could twist the facts to make you the bad guy too I mean seriously do you know exactly whats in the needle I dont and I did not even think about before I got the shot but thats my right not something I have the right to try to force down every free amercians throat. Are you a vaccine producer .(btw alot of them wont take them either) If the vaccines I took and you took and hopefully your family took work then what should we care if someone who dosnt want it gets sick really its none of our business and seeing how we have had it it should not bother us. Personally I thing we need a outbreak of common sence or was their a vaccine for that that got snuck in with the others.

reply to post by Maslo


This is where life experience comes into play.

Personally, I believe only the parent should decide and not a doctor with financial interests.

Interesting tha that you mention Jehovah's Witnesses.

Many, many years ago we were JWs. Not any more. However our son was born with a serious spinal disorder. We were told by a doctor that if he didn't have surgery with a blood transfusion before he was one year old he would die and it would be our fault. Action would be taken against us if we didn't allow this doctor to operate. We sought three other opinions of top orthopedic surgeons in the UK. and a fantastic neurosurgeon. All the doctors agreed that we should never allow our son to be operated on unless his condition detriorated. We then found out that the original doctor who was threatening us was known in the trade as a bit of a butcher! By the way, he still operates and still damages children.

Now, our son is in his thirties, has never had surgery and probably never will.

Who do you think was right?

Was it us, the caring parents or was it the doctor keen to get another tick in his surgery practice and no doubt more money?

The same should be applied to all medical procedures no matter how small or large.

Parents often save the lives of their children and governments and non thinking types tend to follow the propaganda, sadly as parents have their responsibilities, rights and duties stripped from them.

Just FYI MMR is supposed to be given at 18months.. which is also when the symptoms show up NOT 12. Again insert your foot in your mouth and at least read before you open it again.

legacy.autism.com...

4. They claim that autism naturally occurs at about 18 months, when the MMR is routinely given, so the association is merely coincidental and not causal. But the onset of autism at 18 months is a recent development. Autism starting at 18 months rose very sharply in the mid-1980s, when the MMR vaccine came into wide use. A coincidence? Hardly! (See graph below.) Autism is not the only severe chronic illness which has reached epidemic proportions as the number of (highly profitable) vaccines has rapidly increased. Children now receive 33 vaccines before they enter school-a huge increase. The vaccines contain not only live viruses but also very significant amounts of highly toxic substances such as mercury, aluminum, and formaldehyde. Could this be the reason for the upsurge in autism, ADHD, asthma, arthritis, Crohn’s disease, lupus, and other chronic disorders?

I know this article is biased, but it mentions a few things that are not being addressed. There are several diseases and problems being linked to vaccines, the number of vaccines have gone up, and the substances in the vaccines.

So please start to read on the subject and form your own opinion.

For me, all I ask is that you allow ME to make the decision for my family and I.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Elliot

 

If this was about people deciding about themselves to be vaccinated or not, I would have no problem with it. But this is about who will decide this complex and potentially life threatening issue about the children, who cannot decide for themselves. Parents or their doctors?

As with any potentially life threatening medical issue, I think the decision should be made by childs doctor, not parent. Parents can decide only about non life threatening problems. Thats why for example Jehovas witnesses cannot refuse transfusions for their child.

edit on 18/6/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

Really going out side is a potentially life threatening medical issue I mean you could get hit buy a car ( witch seems to happen more often then a child dieing from the measles) or scrape your knee and get the flesh eating bacteria or you could find out the hard way that your kid is alergic to bees. Should I call the doc before sending the kids out side? Btw its not a life threatining issue untill the kid gets sick. Next your going to tell me that the cops are responsable for stoping crime before it happens? If you dont want the responsablity I can give you a # to call and they will make all the decisions for your kids for you. But for the rest of the world the parents should remain responsable for their own kids. Really Its none of my business or anyone elses forthat matter if people think that it just might be safer to not get their kids a vaccine with all the bad press they got I cant blame them when the newsI belive it was fox was talking about a truck of vaccines headed for africa flipped over on the interstate then when these vaccines where tested they had the hiv virus in them.

If vaccines had no risk at all to them, no child ever damaged, no life ever lost, NO multi million dollar pay out to damaged children had ever happened, then fair enough it might make sense for the state or doctor to decide.

But it is known fact that the risks for some are enormous and life threatening.

Therefore, no one with any financial reason should EVER be permitted to make decisions that could destroy the life of another, especially a government or large company.

Each to his own and this thread would not even exist.

But there is always someone attempting to FORCE their opinion on others.
This FORCE is the cause of all the problems in the world, never mind the vaccination issue.

The Lucifer Effect is alive and well, hence power of one person over the lives of others should be limited to the bare necessities.

I'd recommend you do some research on this, it wasn't vaccines that eradicated smallpox

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by mb2591
You have more of a chance to get sick and/or die from a vaccine then you have if you get no vaccine at all
I urge every one to stay away from vaccines

edit on 16-6-2011 by mb2591 because: (no reason given)

Remember a little thing called smallpox? This dandy of an infectious disease was responsible for the deaths of 400,000 europeans each year leading up to the 19th century, and killed 300-500 million in the 20th century alone.

Eradicated by good old vaccination! Imagine the bodycount these days if all people had this attitude with smallpox?

Granted, measles is no smallpox, but there is no reason to believe that these vaccines are killing us. A few die this year, but if lack of vaccinations keep up, eventually this could become an pandemic.

reply to post by brianmg5


Amazing.....

You're attacking another member's credibility, and then turn around and say this:

By the way, for every doctor you can find that says vaccines are bad, I can find a 1000 that say their good. And for every employee at the CDC who says they are bad, I can found a 1000 that say they are good. But besides all that. I happen to be married to an epidemiologist who works with the CDC on a daily basis to provide vaccines to people. So I really don't need to check your evidence, I already know it's wrong.

I hope I do not have to explain to you all the reasons why this comment of yours proves the only person's credibility we should be questioning here is yours.

reply to post by Unity_99

People arent accepting our solutions and all those DNA and brain changes we wish to do, via our vaccinations, lock and unlock genes and dna sequences and mutate them, so, Quick [shifty eyes look sideways] have to create some kind of outbreak and then: 1.problem ---check 2.reaction ---wait...... we cant get to the solution, they seem to be on to us, what the heck, nuke em. I say, Bring It!!!! YouTube Link Pentagon Eugenics Alter DNA breed out Religious impulses via FunVax Vaccinations & Aerosol [ edit on 17-6-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

Unity, why are you posting that YouTube vid? You know there are questions surrounding it's authenticity and they are valid. Aside from the fact it's likely a hoax, it has no relevance to this conversation.

All i have to say is this:

“If the American people really knew what we have done, we would be chased down in the street and lynched.” — President George H.W.Bush to White House correspondent Sara McClendon, 1992 ..

edit on 18-6-2011 by awareness10 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by NightGypsy
Forty percent of what parents "say" this? Forty percent of ALL parents? Nobody has asked me what my views on vaccines are, so I know I'm not one of those 40 percent. I don't know anyone else who's been asked either.

So you don't know how polls work?

OK I'll tell you. They select a supposedly random sample of 1500-2500 people and ask those. if the sample is truly representative, it works pretty well (typically the margin of error is something like +/-3 percentage points but that depends on the sample size). If you want to see how well it works, look at pre-election poll results of people who actually intend to vote, and compare that with the election results.

Now I have to contemplate how you managed to get old enough to have kids without figuring out that nobody ever asks 40% of the population anything, and that information is gathered from polls. For example:

Slightly More Than Half of Americans Say Vaccines Don't Cause Autism

Just a slim majority of Americans -- 52 percent -- think vaccines don't cause autism, a new Harris Interactive/HealthDay poll found.

Conversely, 18 percent are convinced that vaccines, like the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine, can cause the disorder, and another 30 percent aren't sure.

The poll was conducted last week, following news reports that said the lead researcher of a controversial 1998 study linking autism to the MMR vaccine had used fraudulent research to come to his conclusion.

Then you have to go to the end to find the sample size:

The Harris Interactive/HealthDay poll was conducted online within the United States from Jan. 11-13, and included 2,026 adults over the age of 18. Figures for age, sex, race/ethnicity, education, region and household income were weighted where necessary to bring them into line with their actual proportions in the population.

More information

Read more about the poll methodology and findings at Harris Interactive.

With only 2000 people interviewed out of over a hundred million, chances are pretty slim that you or anyone you know would be an interviewee.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2d6d3fcc99c6.jpg[/atsimg]

I haven't read all the replies to this thread, so this may have already been addressed. I had all my vaccinations as a child and a booster in my early teens, as it was required then to attend school. It was my understanding that you are immune for life afterward. It's a little confusing that now they are saying that even if you were vaccinated as a child, as an adult you need to be re-vaccinated.

Originally posted by summer5

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
Anyone who still thinks there is a 'link' between vaccines and autism needs to research that a bit more. There was one guy who claimed to have found a link, and his methodology was found to be complete nonsense. The 'doctor' who authored it, Dr. Andrew Wakefield, completely retracted his claims.



I don't think any one read my initial post on this topic. My son became autistic after his MMR. He was not my first child, I have 7 kids..my last 4 kids have never been vaccinated and they are so much more healthy than my first 3 children.

My two nieces, and a nephew are autistic or on the spectrum, 2 from my sister, one from my brother, which NEITHER are blood related!! We were all 3 adopted when we were infants, from different families. NO blood relationship what so ever. Yet we all have children who are autistic or on the spectrum after MMR shots.

My brother in laws son dies at 18 months after his MMR. He was cranky, fever, etc...He was crying and his mom said he had hardly slept since his MMR. She was exhausted. He finally was getting sleepy. She put him to bed in his crib, hoping he would sleep it off. He fussed a bit, and then finally got quite. She went to check on him about 20 minutes later, and we heard a scream come from down the hall. He was blue, not breathing at all. We were trying to give him CPR, called 911, but he was gone. We had the funeral 2 days later. The worst funeral I have ever attended in my life. A child...A baby. After his immunizations that were suppose to keep him from harm, killed him.

If you have been lucky enough to not have been effected by the immunizations, consider yourself VERY lucky...there are hundreds, thousands of stories who were not so fortunate. Don't be led by blind faith. I have had (in my immediate family) some devastating stories...4 autistic/spectrum, 1 death...out of 10 grand children...do the math! Its not like it can't happen to you, or someone you know...I hope it never does...then you will not be on the other side of the fence.

Either way, if you are on one side of the fence or the other, there are reasons for it. If those of you who are so sure your vaccinations are right, I hope to god you never end up on the other side...its not a good place to be.

I wish I had known more back then, than I do now...ignorance is bliss. My relatives who have given me insite (after the facts) I wished I had talked to prior, so do my siblings. We have made our choices, we have to live with them. Our regrets are vaccinating our children. I hope no one elses is the same regret-ever!

edited: screwed up the quote from my reply..trying to fix it!
edit on 18-6-2011 by summer5 because: (no reason given)
edit on 18-6-2011 by summer5 because: (no reason given)
edit on 18-6-2011 by summer5 because: (no reason given)