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Do moral values survive after the SHTF?

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posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 12:45 AM
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A think the answer will depend upon what type of SHTF scenario occurs. If it is worse case, then there will definitely be a loss of moral values from many who would never have dreamed of engaging in what they are doing, unless this situation existed, whatever that might be.

But fortunately, imo, there will be a rebound within a relatively short period of time, after which men (and women) will realize that in order to survive, that they can only exist by some sort of rules of law, whether they are agreed upon by all or not, and then hopefully the mistakes of the past will be avoided in the future.












edit on 6/17/2011 by manta78 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 12:55 AM
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Originally posted by manta78
A think the answer will depend upon what type of SHTF scenario occurs. If it is worse case, then there will definitely be a loss of moral values from many who would never have dreamed of engaging in what they are doing, unless this situation existed, whatever that might be.

But fortunately, imo, there will be a rebound within a relatively short period of time, after which men (and women) will realize that in order to survive, that they can only exist by some sort of rules of law, whether they are agreed upon by all or not, and then hopefully the mistakes of the past will be avoided in the future.


edit on 6/17/2011 by manta78 because: (no reason given)


I hope you are right but knowing Human nature as I do, I don't hold out much hope in a worst-case scenario.
After watching "Too Big To Fail" on HBO, I suspect a financial collapse.
That would be bad but not as bad as some scenarios that I can think of.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 01:09 AM
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edit on 6/17/2011 by manta78 because: double post, sorry



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 01:09 AM
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reply to post by PaganArchangel
 


I think financial is the most likely possibility in the near future of SHTF scenarios that may occur.
boondock-saint had an interesting thread here on ATS recently asking what would happen if all the banks closed, etc. to which I was one of the many posters on that thread that gave their input, ideas, etc.

And yes I do have faith in the future of mankind, although sometimes wonder if that faith is justified. Speaking to a relative last week about all the problems we are facing as a nation, and in the world for that matter, she said that she wished that there was just some sort of reset button to fix everything..... I think it's more like a reformat of the hard drive is needed ...... that just continuing to do what we are doing now is not going to work.











edit on 6/17/2011 by manta78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 01:25 AM
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I guess it would depend where you are at when the SHTF. City, forget about it. Everything will burn to the ground. But out in the country I think people with have some sort of moral value. The county side is the best place to bee when it goes down.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 02:34 AM
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I think the bigger question is whether or not they are surviving NOW! There can be a lot of gray areas in this matter. I believe the line that gets crossed or not depends on where the line is, and after the SHTF, the line will likely be more footloose and fancy free for a lot of people, more transient, and less pinned down. Survival instinct is different than coddled life and harder decisions have to be made. Civility may fall along the wayside. Ethics often depend more on experience with Real Life than simple rules we think we can live by. There are lose/lose situations. There are circumstances where lives must be traded. Let's say your wife and children are in a car, and another person's wife and children are in another car. You have to decide which one gets hit by a drunk driver and everyone is killed. What do you choose? Your wife and kids? Okay, lets now say the other vehicle is a bus full of children, a very large bus. How do you choose? Are a greater number of lives more important? Is it boiled down to math, or love? People become suicide bombers and kill innocent lives in order to advance a political or religious motive. Ethics are personal and varied. I say ethics are hard enough to pinpoint in today's society let alone when the SHTF. But when it does happen, watch your back!

www.youtube.com...



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 02:42 AM
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Like we have them now as a standard in society?. Some would say yes, but compared to 1950 we don't. By 2060 we will be saying we had good standards in 2011, in fact by then we will be classed as old fashioned and backward in 2011. You'll be able to go to bordellos and have sex with animals by 2060 by current trends, and don't laugh, in 1950 if you were told homosexuality wouldn't just be legal, they'd be able to marry and have children, and have militant groups trying to change it to be accepted as normal, you would have been laughed you out of town.

I was looking at some pictures of ww2 on a site and it included some atrocities committed by German, Russian, British an American troops. The Russians seemed the most appalling but then again they were reacting to what they discovered the German had done. The Japanese to the Chinese in Nanking, the Americans to My Lai in Veitnam etc etc.

It seems when we aren't living in stable environments we revert to who we really are. Thats why democracy will never bring peace as democracy is every man deciding for himself what he thinks is moral and right and voting accordingly. There is not absolute consenus.

Thats where I think kingdoms (Saudi/Monaco/Lichenstein/Brunei) are more stable places to live. They aren't perfect, but they are more stable. You get told what happens but you know things are stable and laws are upheld and crime is not tolerated.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 03:18 AM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 


The thing that amazes me is how much weaponry people plan to take with them. They're just going to re-create a world full of fear and violence, why not creat a new world ?



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 03:56 AM
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This topic made me think of a film called '20 Years After' where its ..obviously..after the SHTF, and everyone who has survived is living quietly the best they can, and in it theres a group of people that are going around killing off those survivors for sport pretty much..all i could think was, who would do that..especially when so few are left. Its a difficult question i think overall, humanity and values arent exactly words that coincide even now let alone after whatever event is to take place, and i would imagine such a situation would give the 'freedom' to many to do as they like without the confines of social stigmas and restrictions..but those who are truly decent beings will always be decent beings. If that makes sense!



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 04:55 AM
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I recently read this book after it was recommended to me by a friend. It is titled " One second after" by William Forstchen. The SHTF secnario for this novel is an EMP. The story is centered around a small town in N. Carolina. It is about survival, morality, everything you can think of. I would highly recommend this book for anyone making plans for bugging out. Remember that in the 1st 72 hours of any SHTF secnario you need to get where you want to be after that the "crazies" will figure out that they need to survive too.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 06:17 AM
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Originally posted by Heartisblack
Hell no, I'll rape,pillage and burn. After the SHTF there ain't no authority but yourself. Everybody take care of their own.


rape?

dick head.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 06:55 AM
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Again, I must reiterate the dis-belief I have reading some of the responses to the OP. For myself, I would have thought that the ATS community would be wiser and more informed in what will be the results of societal collapse.

History is the guide when discussing this type of event. Barley 70 years ago the world was witness to a glimpse of what happens when the SHTF.

The Bieski Brothers and the tribe that formed around their courage is a prime example of the human response in a SHTF event. Hard choices had to be made, their personal morality had to be amended to ensure survival. Mistakes made were turned into lessons learned and morality had to be adjusted to fit the world they found themselves plunged into.

ATSers that express the utopian hope is very naive. Sure we all wish that humans would respond with love and compassion, but some of us understand that is a dream, some of us are awake and see the world as it really is. The law of nature is cruel and unforgiving and those who do not understand that in nature the are only two types of creatures, the predator and the prey. Which will you choose to become?

To expand on my earlier post concerning the risk of enslavement. I must make clear that I am referring to how we can foresee the long term recovery from an event on the scale we are discussing. 11,000 years ago or so the earth did experience a extinction level event and humans had to recover from nearly be wiped out completely. The World history we share is how society recovers. In phases humans started banding together in tribes, one tribe consumed another and assimilated its members into itself until City states appeared, they to consumed their rivals with the out come being nations, and then nations did the same becoming empires. This is still the way of it today. The US is imperialist as the Romans. Empires must steal the resourses of others in order to feed the beast created. And the very backbone of this growth system is the slave. You may not understand that you are as much in bondage to the empire as a field hand was to the planter, but the truth of it is that you are. Your bonds today are invisible, but we are all slaves to the system.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by camaro68ss

I read Survival threads and often wonder to myself if people will have any moral values after the SHTF. Some threads I read talking about bugging out and living on foot, raiding convoys and stealing from others. When The SHTF will you be able to not loot and steal from other?

I personally think that’s messed up to loot and steal. Those people came prepared and you have the guts to steal from them and deny them of life because you were not prepared. I couldn’t do it. If I was that hungry I would hope they would have the same integrity as myself and spear a little food rather than steal it. what are your thoughts


This is a good question. when the cards are on the table it will test everyone's integrity. I for one will die before I compromise my integrity.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 08:08 AM
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In reality, I think there will be those who have no morals and will take whatever they can get their hands on. However, I will not be one of them. If we as a people start having compassion and understanding and start now to help our fellow man affected by what is going on, it can make a difference when SHTF.

As an example, not too long ago I was in the grocery store. A young mother (probably singe as no wedding ring) was in the line in front of me. She had a six month old in the cart crying. Everyone at the checkouts were watching her. You could tell she was embarrassed. After everything was totaled, she was short about $2. Again, you could see the embarrassment show on her face. She chose four cans of tuna to put back. I paid for those four cans for her. Wow, it cost me a whole $2 to make her feel like a human again and hopefully showed her that there are compassionate people in this world. I told my wife, who told her aunt and uncle.

So, fast forward a month or so and her aunt and uncle are in Babies R Us looking for something for a new grandchild. They are in a isle with the cribs, and a young couple was nearby trying to find a crib. They said the girl looked like she was due. They could not afford the cribs and were talking about what they were going to do. Her aunt and uncle bought a crib for them.

I like to think that when you do things like this it renews faith in the human spirit to those who might otherwise feel despair and hopelessness. Did either one of our actions make a significant impact on these people? Who knows. But, I am sure that not doing these things would surely have had a negative impact. I would like to think that those of us who are left have compassion and will do the right thing. Can you do things now that may turn a person who would otherwise kill or steal and make them more of a compassionate person? Possibly. But unless you do, you will never know. Faith in humanity when you are at your lowest is what allows us to persevere.

Random Acts of Kindness



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 08:15 AM
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While I'd imagine that many individuals will take advantage of the chaos around them by looting and stealing, I don't actually think this will be the norm for the majority. Time and time again, we see groups of activists and good samaritans setting up relief funds and food drives for the disenfranchised during times of disaster.

After the quake in Japan struck, I saw throngs of people in the streets of Manhattan that were collecting money for aide to the Japanese people. I saw the same response for the earthquake in Haiti.

Normal and stable individuals don't like isolation or fear. I can see this being a major factor in people's willingness to help each other, even in a disaster on the global scale.

I could imagine that a bunker made to keep your neighbors out of your food and ammo stash would soon become a lonely tomb.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by camaro68ss

I read Survival threads and often wonder to myself if people will have any moral values after the SHTF. Some threads I read talking about bugging out and living on foot, raiding convoys and stealing from others. When The SHTF will you be able to not loot and steal from other?

I personally think that’s messed up to loot and steal. Those people came prepared and you have the guts to steal from them and deny them of life because you were not prepared. I couldn’t do it. If I was that hungry I would hope they would have the same integrity as myself and spear a little food rather than steal it. what are your thoughts


It takes the use of stored body energy to acquire more body energy (food). Given a choice between hunting/foraging, or simply using some amount of force to relatively efficiently obtain food from a well-stocked fellow human being, I think most would choose the latter.

It's not about morality, per se, it's about how EOTW will kick us all down Maslow's Pyramid a few steps and alter our motivations and our thresholds of pain, restraint and action.

I thought the Road was very realistic, except for the scene near the beginning with the scary looking marauders. I think smart bandits will look as non-threatening as possible so they can catch the unprepared by surprise.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 08:28 AM
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Reminds me of that book when those kids get stuck on an island... What's it called?
edit on 17-6-2011 by mb2591 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by mb2591
Reminds me of that book when those kids get stuck on an island... What's it called?
edit on 17-6-2011 by mb2591 because: (no reason given)


I suppose that would be Lord of the Flies. The movie "summer camp nightmare" was loosely based on a book called "The Butterfly Revolution." which was LOTF at a summer camp.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 08:54 AM
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No, I don't think it is possible for morals to survive a SHTF scenario. just like a previous poster said when your haven't eaten for a week morals are the very last thing on you mind. By that same reasoning i plan on taking up an anyone-within-300-yards-is-getting-friggin-shot attitude. I've gone through a lot of hardships and sacrifice in an attempt to be prepared for the worst and the last thing I want is some punk with a sense of entitlement looting my supplies. That goes for my extended family as well, they know about my supplies and I've warned them to prepare but the scoff at me, so i do not plan on sharing... when 1 year of food for 2 turns into 2 weeks of food for 8 nobody wins.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 09:15 AM
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When and not if # hits the fan events to follow will be interesting but won't last long. All the ignorant, unprepared oxygen thieves out there will begin to loot, vandalize and steal from each other while at the same time others who are more interested in survival will come together and form little colonies/towns. Ignorant jackasses who are killing each other for food, water and other survival essentials will eventually run out of ammo and will die with the rest of the people who obviously(and thankfully) weren't strong enough to survive. This will be as fine of an example of Darwin's theory of only the strong survive as it gets. The strong are those who not only have weapons to protect themselves, but also possess the skills and knowledge necessary to begin to bring us out of the whatever terrible event we have experienced.

America is a good example of how people are spread out. Everyone living in the cities and suburbs are most likely dead, for they will have nowhere to go and probably won't survive once all the supermarkets and people's homes are out of food and water. Gas will also be gone and no longer available so traveling will be out of the question. Among these fools, the ones who think they are strong will last the longest, but eventually they will run out of ammo and won't be able to steal from the weak; if there is even any weak left at this time. Everyone else, those who live in the country and in the mountains who already have food, water, clothing and other life essential items stored up will come together as one and hopefully figure out ways to survive and keep humanity going.


I live in the Rockies in a small town where everyone knows everyone and we all respect each other and nature greatly. Everyone has gardens, food storage and water supplies ready to go and we are ready to be there for each other as well. The only shots that will be fired are those aimed at animals which provide food and perhaps the rare occasion that a "sheeple" finds there way up into our little paradise. Shots won't be fired out of anger but instead out of pity. Unfortunately there is no room nor enough food/water supplies to harbor the people that insisted on living life in a bubble made of McDonalds wrappers and pages ripped out of Bill O Reilly books.


Call me crazy, that's fine many sheeple already do; that is when I even deal with them. I do go to town once every month or so for supplies and occasionally converse with the locals who are all still stuck in their bubbles sewn together meticulously well by a government who does its best keeping sheeple in the barn.


Sh$t will hit the fan and unless its a cataclysmic "everyone is dead" event, some people will survive, be sure of it.







 
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