Do moral values survive after the SHTF?

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posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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Personally, I will take care of my own and do whatever beforehand and after to make sure we have everything we need and I will protect it with everything I have. That said, I will help anyone that I feel is worthy of help, that being, as long as I do not think the individual(s) are just looking to leech me dry and can in turn return the favor by some sort of service or need that I may have. In the event that I become short of supplies and necessities, I do not think my first course of action would be to start looting and pillaging, but if I can not trade something for what I need, the gloves indeed may come off and I would eventually resort to stealing anything I could get my hands on.




posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 


Actually this is a great question and may address the entitlement attitude of many of us selfish and arrogant Americans. I personally have stocked and saved a little bit to try to get through whatever may happen. I also have the tools to live without electricity for a while if needed (portable heaters, camping stoves, battery operated stuff and lots of batteries, etc.) Although it's not much, I learned from my grandparents while they were alive the value of storing food. They, like most from their great generation, would store canned food, they would can their own fruits and vegetables and even bought some old military c-ration type of emergency food. They knew from the great depression the value of being prepared for times when you couldn't afford to go to the store or whatever. While I am certainly not as well stocked as they were, me and my family could survive pretty easily for a couple of months with the food I have on hand in my "emergency closet". While I haven't discussed SHTF plans with my neighbors, I am fully aware of who is capable of doing what and I would like to believe we would pool our resources and abilities and survive together. I don't think any of us would need to "bug out" because we are not in a big city.

More to the point of your question, I could not steal form another more prepared person for any reason whatsoever. I guess if there were people who were killed or did not survive I would probably then go through their stuff to find anything that would be helpful - whether food, medicines/medical supplies, weapons or whatever. So I think it is more of a personal question to be answered by individuals. Sadly, with the mindset of most Americans, I believe the majority would have no problem at all stealing from others since most don't feel a need to earn anything for themselves anyway. Myself though - I could not steal from or cause any harm to another person unless they were trying to harm me or my family.
edit on 16-6-2011 by tallcool1 because: spelling



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by Heartisblack
Hell no, I'll rape,pillage and burn. After the SHTF there ain't no authority but yourself. Everybody take care of their own.


well dont come by my retreat. ill shoot you where you stand with that kind of mantality


Don't worry man, HIBs invisible buddy wiil have his/her back.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 16-6-2011 by TDawgRex because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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Same perspective would apply for me under a SHTF scenario. Your car's burning and your stuck inside? Sorry, lady, my family needs attending to first.


That should be "you're stuck " rather than "your stuck." Sorry, but I cannot let such a poor grammatical error go uncorrected.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by bitsoys
 


...

since when does this matter? It's not going to save your life when TSHTF



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 12:59 PM
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For the first year or so, moral values will be replaced with the need to live. Dead people don't really have morals, so would you rather live and break some laws and put your moral values on hold, or die with your values in tact? I have children, so the answer is easy for me. Steal. Beg. Kill. All of course, only if and when absolutely necessary.

However, after a year, probably less, the remaining people will have exhausted everything that can be looted, stolen, etc., and by then, people will be looking for a way to sustain themselves for the future, not just today. At that point, communities will begin to form and it will be the 1800s all over again. Morals will probably begin to become stronger at this point, as people learn to trust and depend on others all over again. A handshake will go back to meaning something.

Keep in mind also that the first month will be extremely traumatic for even the most diehard survivalists. Although survivalists can plan for themselves, they can not account for how everyone else will react. Playing a scenario out in your head, or even trying to simulate it, is extremely beneficial but not always entirely accurate or all encompassing. Even stocking up, one has to factor in the possibility of theft or having to relocate quickly and
being unable to grab more than you can carry.

Lastly, with our moral meter in the US almost half empty already, I am not sure the SHTF will even be needed
for our morals to further erode. We have two generations fully accepting of the "it's all about me" mantra....so
aren't our morals already declining quickly enough? Plus, look at our leaders. Their morals have been gone for
about three to four decades if not more, so really society as a whole will merely be playing catch-up.

I frankly think that the SHTF will bring our morals back. It will just take a little time.
edit on 16-6-2011 by lpowell0627 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by David291
reply to post by Heartisblack
 


I know you can't save everybody, that's a fact but there is no need to go around killing people for their supplies etc, i know a lot of people that mind set but that doesn't help anyone. Survial of the fittest? Another age born from violence? We do not need that again.

It's time we had some peace around here, it's time we learnt that we as a whole are so much better than scattered and seperated as we are right now.


I'm not going to kill anybody for supplies, the point is have you seen any apocalypse movies ? They'll break in and kill you, before you can even find or get to them. That is the big problem itself. If they try and kill you, you really have no choice. And whoever suggested prayer or vibrations to keep the crazed lunatics away. You'll be the first gone.
edit on 16-6-2011 by Heartisblack because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by TheLordVeack
I can't honestly see how your modern day "peace time" view on morality can survive unchanged in a SHTF scenario. Surely it will all be about shunning strangers and doing anything to provide for yourself and your family? If that means stealing, robbing from others, etc, then so be it.
A SHTF scenario will change your outlook on life and in doing so will change your morals. (In my opinion.)


Im far from peace and hippy and i understand your in a SHTF scenario but still can you really steal from a family? I couldent and wouldent, i would have higher morals and would rather ask then steal.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by bitsoys
 


I do agree that family should always come first.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by Heartisblack
 


Sad little world we live eh...? Now you put it like that, which I already knew. I'm even more sure I do not wish to be part of this violent race they call humanity.

Never mind.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:06 PM
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I think the situation of morals will be dependent on 3 things: what the # was that hit the fan, where you live, and how abundant vital recources are. Say you are living in Detroit or some place where society has equally deteriorated before said event, things are going to be a lot crazier. Seems to me like it's pretty bad there and would probably look something like the streets of ciudad juarez after an event. So, you see what I mean. My prediction on how I would behave morally in a best case scenario is that I would do what I could for others but my only focus would be providing for myself and family. If it came to the life of a stranger vs. one of us, I can honestly say it wouldn't take much. I am a mother so naturally I plan for many disasters and think of what I would do in bad situations. I am prepared, I think.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by FTD Brat
 


depends on the situation, if someone was stuck inside a burning building/car and there was a possibility of saving them and my family is in a good situation. I'll try to help the person in the bad situation but hey, that's me.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by Heartisblack
Hell no, I'll rape,pillage and burn. After the SHTF there ain't no authority but yourself. Everybody take care of their own.


I seriously hope you would think twice about doing such, really! After a major SHTF scenario how are we to rebuild the world to a better place without having moral values to pass along. Sorry to say that with that attitude you are looking to die sooner than later in a real world situation. If someone asks me for food, I am more than happy to give it to them, if they try and steal it, they will face grave consequences for their actions. It can go both ways, but isn't it better to try and be civil first?



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by David291
reply to post by FTD Brat
 


depends on the situation, if someone was stuck inside a burning building/car and there was a possibility of saving them and my family is in a good situation. I'll try to help the person in the bad situation but hey, that's me.


for sure help them, why wouldent you? Its going to be a tuff and scare world here in the next 6-12 month. Lucky my retreat is off the beaten path so i wont have as many looters. Looters ill shoot, but people asking for alittle help ill give them what i can afford too



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by Heartisblack
I'm not going to kill anybody for supplies, the point is have you seen any apocalypse movies ? They'll break in and kill you, before you can even find or get to them.

Wait..... Movies do share some truth but also leave out important facts

Originally posted by Heartisblack
That is the big problem itself. If they try and kill you, you really have no choice. And whoever suggested prayer or vibrations to keep the crazed lunatics away. You'll be the first gone.

Are YOU 100% sure about that?
What if something left out the movies you speak supports their vibrations in an un movie kinda way??
Be well



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by Heartisblack
 


It is quite sad that your post probably indicates
what will happen when the SituationHTF.The
population will be reduced to packs of sub-human,
self-serving,degenerates.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:27 PM
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Ultimately, it depends on the perspective, or what side you are on.

If you are well supplied and have what you need, then you could easily say the others are the "bad guys" when attempts are made to remove it from you.

If you are not well supplied and each day is a struggle to feed yourself and you find a stockpile of supplies and try to take them away from the owner, then you are the "bad guy."

It is all perspective, but at the end of the day, it is all survival.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by mamabeth
 


I do not think so. I think at the beginning there will be confusion and fear, everyone for them self attitude. Once everyone finds their place, it is human nature to eventually start coming together. Human nature understands that we are more likely to survive in groups rather than alone, and whether planned or by chance, people will come together at some point and start setting up small communities.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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Great topic.

There will be two distinct phases when all our infrastructure fails, especially the the power grid. This would shortly stop all shipping of freight, including food supplies. No gas, no trucks, etc.

Phase 1

Within a week, the shelves will be bare and the last gallon of gas/deisel hand cranked out of reserves. People will do anything they need to do in order to feed themselves and their families. There are only two options, which are help each other or steal from each other. In this phase, the weaker and feeble of mind will resort to thievery and violence, doing whatever they desire for short term gain. They will initially cause mayhem in the cities and, when they are finally beaten back by organised urban militias, then spread out as marauding gangs into the countryside thinking easy pickings in small towns and farms. Sadly (for them), they will find that small towns, villages and farms are already formidably organised, having had time to prepare for the expected onslaught.
There's nothing like open fields, silos and water towers for spotting these groups and there would be no mercy.

Phase 2

Once those bent on looting are eradicated, because they eventually will be, those who instead chose to cooperate in meeting the challenges food shortages will bring will find a way to provide enough for the survivors. Some semblance of civilization will return even if it is only at local levels. Those in areas where food production is nearly impossible (like Las Vegas), they will migrate to places where food crops can be raised.

Morals are based in social cohesion. When the social structure breaks down, the urge for retaining whatever is left will be strong. Neighbors will help neighbours, particularly in the farming communities where the practice has never really stopped. Also, anyone who has lived their entire lives within the inner cities will know that their neighbourhood is special to them and want to protect it in a shtf situation.

You can multiply that 100 times for outlying communities.

Rapists, theives and looters will only survive during the riots that immediately ensue, but their existence will be short lived and end in the violence they themselves displayed.





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