Freemasons and discrimination???

Originally posted by partycrasher
If you are not in the club then the insiders consider you to be PROFANE.

OnTheLevel has a good answer to that. To further his answer, the Oxford English Dictionary has the following additional meanings:

Not relating or devoted to what is sacred or biblical; unconsecrated, secular, lay; civil, as distinguished from ecclesiastical

Of persons: not initiated into religious rites or sacred mysteries; (in extended use) not participating in or admitted to some esoteric knowledge or society; excluded, uninitiated, ‘lay’.

It's a descriptor, not a judgement.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by partycrasher
If you are not in the club then the insiders consider you to be PROFANE.

OnTheLevel has a good answer to that. To further his answer, the Oxford English Dictionary has the following additional meanings:

Not relating or devoted to what is sacred or biblical; unconsecrated, secular, lay; civil, as distinguished from ecclesiastical

Of persons: not initiated into religious rites or sacred mysteries; (in extended use) not participating in or admitted to some esoteric knowledge or society; excluded, uninitiated, ‘lay’.

It's a descriptor, not a judgement.

A descriptor not a judgement! Really!!?
Whats the difference between a man in a courts dock being announced guilty, or being described as guilty!? Its the same thing surely?

reply to post by TheLordVeack

It is apparent you don't know the difference between a descriptor and a judgement.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by TheLordVeack

 

It is apparent you don't know the difference between a descriptor and a judgement.

Its also apparent that masons will go to any length to attempt to stop those outside the fraternity from levelling accusations at the cult. The arrogance of the masonic cult is astounding. I dont think the masons are involved in the NWO. I dont think the masons have any secret knowledge. In all honesty, I dont think the freemasons have anything positive to offer in these difficult times! Its abig boys scout group for arrogant, self congratulating egotists who think they are more important than those around them.

Originally posted by TheLordVeack
Its also apparent that masons will go to any length to attempt to stop those outside the fraternity from levelling accusations at the cult.

I have yet to see an accusation "stopped". Opposed? Yes. Refuted? Absolutely. But how, pray tell, have such accusations been "stopped"?

In all honesty, I dont think the freemasons have anything positive to offer in these difficult times!

Those going through the worst of these difficult times would beg to differ.

Its abig boys scout group for arrogant, self congratulating egotists who think they are more important than those around them.

Show me where any Mason said anything about being better than anyone around them by virtue of being a Mason.

Originally posted by TheLordVeack
A descriptor not a judgement! Really!!?
Whats the difference between a man in a courts dock being announced guilty, or being described as guilty!? Its the same thing surely?

No, it isn't. The judgement takes place when the jury announces they've found the defendant guilty, at which point the descriptor changes from "the accused" to "the guilty party". The judgement takes place once; though the word is the same, its use goes from judgement to a statement of the facts.

Lets deal with your last point first. Don't freemasons say that masons make a good man better!? Therefore, if non masons are good men, and freemasons are good men made better, aren't we by design saying that masons are superior to those of us who aren't? I have no axe to grind here I jst thought that was the ideology behind freemasonry! To make good men ( us outside the masons) in to better men!

reply to post by TheLordVeack

I'm against undue accusations or lies. What good man isn't? We haven't stopped anything from happening, we just attempt to refute the lies held against us.

I'm not the one who claims to know more than the actual members of a particular group. Anti-Masons think they know more than us Masons and yet, some, like you call us arrogant? Take a look in the mirror.

I dont think the freemasons have anything positive to offer in these difficult times! Its abig boys scout group for arrogant, self congratulating egotists who think they are more important than those around them.

And that is your opinion, which you are entitled to. I, obviously, don't agree with it, and that is my right.

So would the family that one of my Lodge's adopts every year to assist with for Thanksgiving and Christmas. So would two college students who we gave scholarships to. Those assisted by either the Knights Templar Eye Foundation or the Shriner's hospitals would beg to differ.

reply to post by TheLordVeack

We do say that we endeavor to make good men better. We attempt to do this by imparting lessons of morality through symbolism to a candidate, BUT it is up to him to better himself and help his community. You are not a better man for simply walking through our doors. That is folly. Nor do we claim that once a man has bettered himself that he is somehow superior to those who are not members. Nowhere have we ever said that.

Originally posted by TheLordVeack
Lets deal with your last point first. Don't freemasons say that masons make a good man better!?

Do you assume every person who ever said "I'm a better person for..." accidentally left out the words than you in the middle of a sentence?

The man a Freemason views himself superior to isn't you; it's himself, yesterday.

reply to post by KSigMason


Fair enough, I take your point on board and respect what you're saying but you have to admit that a lot of what freemasons write on here does come across as self congratulating and arrogant! Theres also a fair deal of ganging up on those who dont share your views on masonry. Maybe thats just part of the human condition to support and stick up for your own!

reply to post by TheLordVeack

I do sometimes come off as hostile, and when I do, I'll often apologize the next time I'm on. Sometimes our zeal to protect what we know to be good can be construed as arrogant when we wish nothing more than the importance of our message to recognized. Sometimes we are zealously confident, but it comes from persistent attacks on us.

I would say that it is human condition that you keep with your own. The ATS Masons here have a special relationship. We come from all over the world, from different walks of life, and all have completely different experiences within in the Craft (degrees, positions held, etc). I will say this, and I know Network Dude will concur, you non-Masons and anti-Masons give us much to research and I have learned a lot by sifting through this site.

reply to post by KSigMason

Its easy to get hostile confused with passion!
I respect passion no matter who is behind it.
You dont have to agree with someone to respect their passion...

Originally posted by partycrasher
Freemasonry is discriminatory. If you are not in the club then the insiders consider you to be PROFANE. therefore in the eyes of a mason a non mason is "less than" and how is this different than the use of words like infidel or goyim or the n word ? THINK about that.

Naturally, you have proof of that?
Or, is it hearsay?

Originally posted by SickOfLies
This is not meant to offend I merely ask why!
I found out that in the Australian Army one will not be promoted above a certain rank unless he is a Mason no matter how good he is at his job. ....

It would not surprise me.

During the 1970s when my mother and father were married and my father (RIP) was still a policeman, they went out to dinner with some of the top brass, including the Commissioner of South Australian Police. When the topic turned to religion the Commissioner said he was a Catholic, and since my mother was raised a Catholic an interesting conversation began.
Anyway, the Police Commissioner said that when it came to appointing the man for the top job, it was no secret that the order always went, Catholic, Freemason, Catholic, Freemason, Catholic etc.
My mother doesn't buy into any global conspiracy about secret societies but did find it interesting enough to mention it to me.

I also find it interesting that the emblem representative of Victorian and Western Australian Police has an inverse Pentagram (and a laurel wreath attached to it).

From Victoria Police: "The five-point star symbolises that Victoria Police Members will go in any direction to perform their duties"

www.police.vic.gov.au...

www.police.wa.gov.au...

In SA we have the Magpie, representing the Phoenix (13, reborn, raised from the ashes) perhaps?
www.sa.crimestoppers.com.au...

I've heard about similar things occurring in the military but have not uncovered any evidence as yet. I really wish I was closer to my father before he died. He was also ex-military and ex interpol.