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Hiroshima - 59th anniversary

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posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 12:20 AM
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Has any other country ever used a weapon of the magnitude that we used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Like I said before, I could be wrong, but I do believe that the United States of America is the ONLY country to ever have used this type of weapon.

Yet, it is the US who should dictate who is responsible enough to have and use these weapons? And yes, of course there are other countries who possess nuclear weapons, but the US is in the habit of making that decision for many countries.

(edited for spelling)

[edit on 9-8-2004 by AmethystWolf]




posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 12:20 AM
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Im a realist, The world is small nasty and complicated. The weak get crushed by the strong I dont like it but I deal with it. I dont try to paint some pretty picture of the world because the world is not a pretty place.



posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 12:22 AM
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Then certainly the one with the largest weapon should have the last word.




posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 12:25 AM
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The five established nuclear powers - the United States, Russia, China, France and Britain. These are the countries that told the rest of the world who should have nukes. They decided no one but them should have them. Some countries did not agree with them and they did not sign the NPT.



posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 12:26 AM
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Try looking at this thread....we have been debating this for a while!

America's nukes



posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 12:26 AM
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Originally posted by Saphronia
As long as we have folk like you that are willing to accept war and murder even though you are able to admit that its wrong then we will always live in a world where wrong can be justified. There is no justification for killing another human being--


Its funny that people take this stance so often. Idealy there would be no killing or fighting. Yet you say this, with a military or police force keeping you safe.

So its wrong to kill. Is it wrong to benefit from someone else killing? What about someone who shoots someone about to shoot you? What about someone who kills in war against say...nazis? Do you let the Jews and various other groups of Europe be wiped out to keep your morals? Do you live in a country that faught for its freedom? Is it ok that your life right now is the way it is because other's killed to get you there?

Ideals are great. But we don't live in an ideal world. I wonder if your view would change if someone was trying to kill your child.



posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 01:10 AM
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Originally posted by AmethystWolf
I find it sad and telling that the day passed in America without any sort of rememberence. We killed alot of people, and damaged future generations on that day. At the very least people should think about it.

But, then again, we American's are quite self absorbed and tend to mark the days that directly affect them (Sept. 11, for example, will never go by without a mention or a moment of silence)

I am ashamed of what my country did to Hiroshima and Nakasaki. My thoughts are with those who lost loved ones to that tragedy, and to the generations still being affected by our governments actions.



really and who started that war.....japan put itself in that situation because its conquest of eastern asia and pacific islands, they got too greedy and attacked our navy, none of it wouldve happened if they realised their limits and stayed on their side of the pacific, we shouldnt apologise, we didnt start it, japan shouldve thought before attacking the US.

its not arrogant or being self absorbed, every country only mark days directly effecting them, youre niave to think only america does that and judgemental to make such a statement generalising every american.

we do think about, we have many such ceremonies even if its not official they still exist.

you and others like you need to stop judging others like you just did, thats arrogant to act that way like you know everything and everyone.



posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 05:02 AM
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How many US citizens can't even tell what day is hiroshima day compared to how many who know when 9/11 is?

There is a priority problem here...

Oh wait 9/11 gives it away in the date.. doh!



posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 05:31 AM
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The fact is, all those innocent men women and children did not need to die. It depends on how you view the right of a country to test it's weapons on innocent people I suppose.



posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 05:53 AM
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Originally posted by earthtone
The fact is, all those innocent men women and children did not need to die. It depends on how you view the right of a country to test it's weapons on innocent people I suppose.


Really now. Perhaps you are right, but the point is we were at war. The point is that right or wrrng warfare of the day considered it an acceptable practice to devestate cities. Would you prefered that they had gone along with LeMay's plan to firebomb the major cities instead? You will notice that the rules of warfare has changed and what we find acceptable actions in war has changes as well. It would be far easier to bomb one of the cities in the Sunnie Triangle to the ground but again that is no longer an accepted practice.

Based on the level of resistance seen at Guadacanal, Siapan, Iwo Jima etc, there was a real possibility that an invasion of the home islands would have caused million of casulties and required each and every city to be burned down to the ground. How many people were spared by the desicion to drop the bombs (on both sides)?

The the Fat Man Bomb had already been tested at Trinity, the Little Man was the one they were not sure about.



posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 06:01 AM
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Originally posted by Quest
Its funny that people take this stance so often. Idealy there would be no killing or fighting. Yet you say this, with a military or police force keeping you safe.

So its wrong to kill. Is it wrong to benefit from someone else killing? What about someone who shoots someone about to shoot you? What about someone who kills in war against say...nazis? Do you let the Jews and various other groups of Europe be wiped out to keep your morals? Do you live in a country that faught for its freedom? Is it ok that your life right now is the way it is because other's killed to get you there?

Ideals are great. But we don't live in an ideal world. I wonder if your view would change if someone was trying to kill your child.


The "ideal situation" escapes you doesn't it?

In the ideal situation EVERYTHING IS IDEAL! Yes even that is ideal!

The examples you give of how we need to fight for and protect things are all from THIS situation and NOT the ideal one. In this world we are taught @ school to want more than the next man, we are taught to compete fiercely with each other for success and acclaim. This is why we grow up to act like greedy kids and that is why we have to employ things like police to stop this getting out of hand.
It seems to me you accept these acts of agression/brutality as "normal/natural beheiviour" and quote them as the rationale behind the creation of army/police.
IMO this could not be further from the truth, these acts are a by-product of our indoctrination and the capitalist mind-set (gimme, gimme, gimme), and have nothing to do with nature.
So arguing that police ect. is necesssary because of this is fallacy then, as they exist ONLY beacuse we are driven to this kind of babaric behaviour in the first place.
If there was no crime there would be no police, ideally of course...



posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 07:04 AM
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Why did US drop the infamous A-Bomb?

Because they attacked us.

Right,

What was the target of the Japan air force in US?

The military base in Pearl Harbor.

Right, a "Military installation" in the US territory of Hawaii.

What was the target of the A-Bomb?

Civilian population in two major cities in Japan.

Right.

Now does that sound like fair and balance, or a criminal act.
inal act.



posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 07:49 AM
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Exactely. This attack that killed thousands of people.....were they in any way a part of the japanese war machine? Were they the people responsible for attacking America? This attack had absoloutely no military significance. The Japanese would have surrendered , in fact some claim that a message from Japan surrendering was ignored shortly before the attack. This absoloutely tragic mass murder of people was simply an excuse to test a new military weapon.



posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 10:09 AM
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If people really want to talk about War atrocities Lets talk about how Japan treated those it captured during WW2.There were more than 140,000 white prisoners in Japanese prisoner of war camps. Of these, one in three died from starvation, work, punishments or from diseases for which there were no medicines to treat.




The terms of the Geneva Convention were ignored by the Japanese who made up rules and inflicted punishments at the whim of the Camp Commandant.

The majority of prisoners were put to work in mines, fields, shipyards and factories on a diet of about 600 calories a day. Those that suffered the worst conditions and hardship while Japanese prisoners of war, were those that were sent to build the Burma-Thailand railway. Prisoners of war and Asian labourors worked side by side to build the 260 mile railroad by hand. They were expected to work from dawn to dusk, ten days on and one day off, moving earth, building bridges, blasting through mountains and laying track.

The total labor force consisted of about 68,000 Allied POWs and 200,000 Asian laborers. The combined death toll was around 96,000, of which 18,000 were Allied POWs. Consider for just a moment how these human beings died.



posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by earthtone
Exactely. This attack that killed thousands of people.....were they in any way a part of the japanese war machine? Were they the people responsible for attacking America?


YES! Yes they were part of the war machine, just as almost every adult american is part of what is going on in Iraq.

Not only were most Japanese loyal to the Emperor and his army, but they were the factory workers who lived in the city and made the equipment and munitions. Other payed taxes used to to build the Japanse Military.

The only innocents killed in those attack were the children. I'm not saying that nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a good thing, it wasn't. But it was hardly just slaughtering civilians for the sake of causing fear. There were major industrial infrastructures collapsed because of those bombings.

Just like 9/11 was not only demoralizing to the US, it also attacked our financial structure and caused our markets to drop and so on. It even killed people who payed taxes that went to keeping troops in Saudi Arabia which was what started the whole al queda thing to begin with.

People too often act like just because you don't carry a gun or wear a military uniform that you are some ultra pure innocent person. If you live in an take part in a society, and that society does soemthing, you need to own up to playing a role or leave.

I don't think what is going on in Iraq is a good thing or the right thing, but i choose to stay in the US, including working here and paying taxes, so I accept that I am an enemy to some, just as the people making ships, tanks, and bombs in Hiroshima were enemies and targets back in 1945.



posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 10:33 AM
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namehere:

really and who started that war.....japan put itself in that situation because its conquest of eastern asia and pacific islands, they got too greedy and attacked our navy, none of it wouldve happened if they realised their limits and stayed on their side of the pacific, we shouldnt apologise, we didnt start it, japan shouldve thought before attacking the US.


So you're saying the USA wouldn't have gotten involved in WWII at all if Pearl Harbor never happened?

They would have let the Nazis take over all of Europe and ethnically cleanse who they want, because those being killed were not Americans?

Wasn't Pearl Harbor in fact a MILITARY target, as opposed to the hundreds of thousands of civilians who lived in Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Where are you drawing any kind of correlation there?



we do think about, we have many such ceremonies even if its not official they still exist.


Name one public way that America remembers those who died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki off the top of your head.



you and others like you need to stop judging others like you just did, thats arrogant to act that way like you know everything and everyone.


Haha, go over your entire post and then read that sentence again, pertaining to your post. Funny.

Shadow:

The terms of the Geneva Convention were ignored by the Japanese who made up rules and inflicted punishments at the whim of the Camp Commandant.


So you fight your enemy using tactics that are according to his capacity for atrocity? If Nazis execute their POWS, and you're fighting the Nazis, do you execute your prisoners? If they slaughter civilians, do you slaughter civilians?

Um, maybe. Unless, you know, you're actually the GOOD GUYS in the situation.


The total labor force consisted of about 68,000 Allied POWs and 200,000 Asian laborers. The combined death toll was around 96,000, of which 18,000 were Allied POWs. Consider for just a moment how these human beings died.


These were captured SOLDIERS, not civilians. They probably died horribly, but how does incinerating 70,000 innocent non-combatants in any way compare?



posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by Jakomo

Haha, go over your entire post and then read that sentence again, pertaining to your post. Funny.

Shadow:

The terms of the Geneva Convention were ignored by the Japanese who made up rules and inflicted punishments at the whim of the Camp Commandant.


So you fight your enemy using tactics that are according to his capacity for atrocity? If Nazis execute their POWS, and you're fighting the Nazis, do you execute your prisoners? If they slaughter civilians, do you slaughter civilians?

Um, maybe. Unless, you know, you're actually the GOOD GUYS in the situation.


The total labor force consisted of about 68,000 Allied POWs and 200,000 Asian laborers. The combined death toll was around 96,000, of which 18,000 were Allied POWs. Consider for just a moment how these human beings died.


These were captured SOLDIERS, not civilians. They probably died horribly, but how does incinerating 70,000 innocent non-combatants in any way compare?




I was trying to make the point that Japan was not the poor good guys that had the big bad bomb dropped on them.

Oh yeah and those 200,000 Asian laborers were (non-combatants) they had the highest death toll in those slave camps. Just about as many of those asian laborers died then in one of those atomic blast and they died a lot slower death.



posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by earthtone
Exactely. This attack that killed thousands of people.....were they in any way a part of the japanese war machine? Were they the people responsible for attacking America? This attack had absoloutely no military significance. The Japanese would have surrendered , in fact some claim that a message from Japan surrendering was ignored shortly before the attack. This absoloutely tragic mass murder of people was simply an excuse to test a new military weapon.


Cities and civilian infrastructure was considered a legitate taraget during that time period. Not now but then. You people are trying to apply present day morals in a revisonist view of the war.



posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 08:36 PM
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And, today is the 59th anniversary of our dropping an atomic bomb on Nagasaki.

Let's not forget.

www.exploratorium.edu...


I challenge everyone to take a few minutes out of their safe and secure day to view the images at the above site.

*caution, some of the images are graphic and disturbing*


[edit on 9-8-2004 by AmethystWolf]



posted on Aug, 9 2004 @ 08:43 PM
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AmethystWolf,

Thanks for the reminder we indeed tend to have short memories after all, this pictures brings tears to my eyes I am an American but I have feelings and this pictures are not from the military Japanese that got killed but the people the children what a shame.



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