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Since The U.S. Might Become Greece Soon It's Time To End "Free" Healthcare & Govt. Programs ASAP

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posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 10:58 PM
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It's time to learn lessons from history

Fortuno is governor of Puerto Rico. Two years ago, he fired 17,000 government workers. No state governor did anything like that. He cut spending much more than Walker did in Wisconsin. In return, thousands of union members demonstrated against Fortuno for days. They clashed with police. They called him a fascist

Fortuno said he had to make the cuts because Puerto Rico's economy was a mess.

www.creators.com...
And not only Puerto Rico, but even Canada


When I think Canada, I think big government. I'm embarrassed that I didn't know that in the mid-'90s, Canada shrank its government. It had to. Its debt level was as bad as ours is today, almost 70 percent of the economy. Canada's finance minister said: "We are in debt up to our eyeballs.

So in 1995 Canadian leaders cut unemployment benefits and other programs. It happened quietly because it was a liberal government, and liberals didn't want to criticize their own. The result was that Canada's debt stopped increasing. As the government ran budget surpluses, the debt went down.

"The economy boomed," Henderson said. "Think about what government does. Government wastes most of what it spends, and so just cutting government and having that money in the hands of people means it's going to be used more valuably."

www.creators.com...

And Japan


We can make cuts and have a better America.

Japan and Canada demonstrate that. Japan applied the Keynesian prescription in the 90's. Budget deficits ranged between 6 and 9 percent of GDP. Their debt went from 11 percent of GDP to 80 percent. And the policy failed to stimulate. Oops.

www.foxbusiness.com...

I think that it's insane to think that during a time where the U.S.'s credit rating is getting so bad it makes sense to expand govt. thereby increasing costs while lowering quality, what sense does it make?

It's fiscal insanity

There's still time though, but something needs to be done fast and I don't know why common sense is taking so long to show it's head




posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


S+F...
The US needs to wake up and realize what's going on.

People need to realize that tough decisions have to made to keep the US afloat.
edit on 15-6-2011 by FTD Brat because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:03 PM
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hey i need food stamps and unemployment, everything else ill accept. And if your going to lose gov programs, attack gov jobs first like education and fda and department of transportation



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:04 PM
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That's a very capitalist attitude isn't it?

I can agree a lot of government welfare systems don't work, but many do too, it's a matter of finding the right balance.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:17 PM
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So in 1995 Canadian leaders cut unemployment benefits and other programs. It happened quietly because it was a liberal government, and liberals didn't want to criticize their own. The result was that Canada's debt stopped increasing. As the government ran budget surpluses, the debt went down.

"The economy boomed," Henderson said. "Think about what government does. Government wastes most of what it spends, and so just cutting government and having that money in the hands of people means it's going to be used more valuably."


And our unemployment benefits never completely went away either. They base the amount of weeks that a person can collect on the rate of unemployment in that province, or region. The fewer people unemployed, the less weeks someone is allowed to collect. 26 weeks is the minimum that I've ever seen, and the maximum is 52 weeks.

Welfare never went away either, they just monitor who's eligible better.

And we've always had healthcare.

I think the biggest thing was getting rid of the government waste, and making it smaller.

I think the US could use a smaller government too. Much gets wasted, and too much bickering, nothing good seems to get done.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
I think that it's insane to think that during a time where the U.S.'s credit rating is getting so bad it makes sense to expand govt. thereby increasing costs while lowering quality, what sense does it make?

It's fiscal insanity

There's still time though, but something needs to be done fast and I don't know why common sense is taking so long to show it's head


Of course it is insane. The alternative was to let the banking system collapse immediately in 2008, and the politicians could not allow that, better to put it off and hope the next politician would be blamed. I suppose they could have just cut checks to every citizen, but lets be real they would never do that, better to siphon off the majority to wealthy campaign donors.

Sorry to tell you, no there is no time left. We need a 50% budget cut immediately. That is utterly impossible with our political system. It would require large cuts to medicare, and medicaid. It just won't happen. Instead it will be forced on us either through destruction of the dollar or through the inability to borrow.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:38 PM
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Any government employee who suggest we cut programs that help people in need should be forced into those peoples shoes.

I know, there ARE people out there who manipulate the system. But in these times, many people need things such as unemployment and food stamps. It's just a fact of the economy and the times we are in.

I am a computer programmer. I have been for 16 years. I used to make 6 figures. I lost my job the day before Thanksgiving in 2010. I'm a single father to a 9-year old boy, AND I live in NYS. A single bedroom apartment here is $1300 a month minimum. Tack on electric, and gas for your car, insurance, food, etc etc etc. Its a major strain. Without my unemployment and food stamps, I wouldn't be able to take care of my son. I used to make somewhere around $1500 a week after taxes. Now? I get $362 a week. And of that $362, exactly 50% is going to my ex-wife for child support. While she technically has custody of him, he is with me 5 days a week. I know this is another issue in itself, but my point is people are getting screwed.

The key word there is "people". While we are talking about cutting aid to middle class and poor people, we are spending billions still in wars. I mean, wasn't the goal in Afghanistan to get Bin Laden? Ok well he's "dead" now right? Why are we still there??

Why are we spending this year alone $119.4 BILLION dollars fighting in Afghanistan?? (source).

How can we talk about screwing American people when we give away about $25 billion a year in foreign aid???

Why are we giving away TRILLIONS of dollars to banks while the CEO's and their wifes pocket hundreds of millions??? (example)

I don't understand why this administration (I speak of THIS administration because that is who is in control right now) seems to care so little for the American people. Just think of the improvements we could make to our own country with that money. Instead we try and screw the people more and more everyday. All the while we are busy spreading "Democracy" all over the world. Rome will fall.


edit on 15-6-2011 by DerekJR321 because: typo

edit on 15-6-2011 by DerekJR321 because: another typo




posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:40 PM
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That would be a disaster in this country to end welfare and healthcare programs.

How many people would be living on the streets? That's a good idea? No.

When more and more wealth is being hoarded by the very few, maybe they need to start making some sacrifices, instead of people that don't have anything?

We keep hearing that everyone has to make sacrifices, but there is a TON of wealth in this country. And the people that have the wealth sure aren't making sacrifices, which ironically are the ones that are actually in a position to make sacrifices.

I just shake my head when I keep hearing about how "entitlement programs" need to end, people need to make more and more sacrfices, etc. People are being duped again.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:51 PM
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cut the cia funding...
you know how much that would save, dissolve it...
seriously



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 12:09 AM
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Excellent post as usual, MA. The government absolutely has to reign in spending. The Keynsian school has killed the American economy. It's time for Hayek to take over and bring prosperity to the nation.

To various others: A good portion of "the rich" earned their money by decades of hard work, dedication, and sacrifice to get where they are today. They played by the rules and succeeded. Some of us haven't. Get over it and worry about yourselves. Bunch of jealous whiners.

/TOA



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by The Old American

To various others: A good portion of "the rich" earned their money by decades of hard work, dedication, and sacrifice to get where they are today. They played by the rules and succeeded. Some of us haven't. Get over it and worry about yourselves. Bunch of jealous whiners.

/TOA


Again, I just shake my head.

news.yahoo.com...

Here's a quote from the article -

"The chart jibes with other data, which show that since the 1980s, income for the richest 1 percent of Americans has exploded, while hardly budging at all for everyone else."

Well, it's official, only the top 1% are working hard I guess!


What a sad state of affairs, let's all make sacrifices except for the rich. What a great country this is turning into.

Here's something else to think about - if the majority were actually being paid fairly, less would need government assistance, but that sure as hell isn't happening.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by Chadwickus
That's a very capitalist attitude isn't it?

I can agree a lot of government welfare systems don't work, but many do too, it's a matter of finding the right balance.


Capitalist attitude? Oh no! Dear God! Somebody save us from the capitalists! What next, freedom of an unprecedented level? Will the insanity never stop? If we were ever to actually have capitalism, who would save us from ourselves?

The right balance between government and the people who allow that government to exist is a limited government willing to accept the responsibility of protecting the rights of individuals, and failing that, a system that offers remedy for the redress of grievances. By remedy I do not mean social welfare programs, but rather a justice system actually concerned with the denial and disparagement of actual rights, not a Leviathan state inventing victimless crimes in their never ending quest for the aggregation of power.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 12:47 AM
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We need to cut military spending and stop spending so much money on pointless drug prohibition is what we need to do. The social programs are fine (though Social Security does need a major overhaul).



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:03 AM
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Originally posted by origamiandurbanism

Originally posted by The Old American

To various others: A good portion of "the rich" earned their money by decades of hard work, dedication, and sacrifice to get where they are today. They played by the rules and succeeded. Some of us haven't. Get over it and worry about yourselves. Bunch of jealous whiners.

/TOA


Again, I just shake my head.

news.yahoo.com...

Here's a quote from the article -

"The chart jibes with other data, which show that since the 1980s, income for the richest 1 percent of Americans has exploded, while hardly budging at all for everyone else."

Well, it's official, only the top 1% are working hard I guess!


What a sad state of affairs, let's all make sacrifices except for the rich. What a great country this is turning into.

Here's something else to think about - if the majority were actually being paid fairly, less would need government assistance, but that sure as hell isn't happening.


Here's the title of that article:


Workers’ share of national income plummets to record low


What the hell is a national income? Has America become a kollectivist state all of a sudden? Are we now an ant hive, where every member must give everything he or she has to the hive in order to to survive? No, we're humans that should have grown beyond having to rely on the next sentient being behind us to prop us up.

You know what a worker's share is? It's whatever she works for. If a worker makes $7.50 an hour, that is her share. If someone makes $10,000 a month, that is their share. My share is my share, your share is your share. If I consent to share with someone else (like my family) then that is a choice I made.

But to force someone to "spread the wealth around" is no more or less morally bankrupt than someone being miserly with their wealth. People need to grow up and stop worrying what someone else is doing with their own money.

/TOA



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:22 AM
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Stop waging war...I'm thinking that's the biggest slice of the pie. First day I worked for the State of MN, had a meeting and the Director pointed out the fact that the biggest slice of the welfare pie went out to long-term care; that's right, folks...paying for your mom and dad and grandparents in nursing homes. That single white female with one kid hardly makes a dent. So, what would you have? Taking your elderly relatives in and providing them with love and care or putting them in nursing homes? Let's be honest here, what would you be willing to do?



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:23 AM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Ooooooor

We could make the people who make most use of public infrastructure pay fair price for that use (that is, tax the wealthy) AND stop blowing Arabs into bloody chunks.

But no.

The poor must continue to subsidize the rich, and the furreners must continue to die. Why? because ModernAcademia has a vested interest in seeing his countrymen get sold up # creek without a paddle, because he wants to prove some political point that was disproven in the freaking 70's.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 02:10 AM
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reply to post by The Old American
 


Actually what that article tells us we DO need to spread the wealth around. When I say that, I'm not talking about some scary Socialist agenda, I'm talking about people making a fair wage, which is clearly not happening with most people (Again, that article is proof of it). I honestly can't believe you're OK with the outlook that if someone makes $7.50 an hour, that's OK in the year 2011. You don't really believe that, Old American, you just can't. It's crazy.

The irony is, if someone is making that low amount of income, then that person is assuredly going to need government assistance. We're talking borderline poverty in 2011.

I just don't understand how someone that isn't in the top 1% can support the 1% in this day and age when it's been proven that they are soaking up more and more of the wealth. That does not make for a healthy country or a good society. And if you think it does, how does it exactly? Explain that one to me.




edit on 16-6-2011 by origamiandurbanism because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 02:40 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


Yes, big evil capitalism, goes hand in hand with big evil socialism, ironically the two need each other.

Get it right and you have Sweden, get it wrong you get USA, Australia etc etc.

But you know this.

I doubt the USA will improve any time soon, and it certainly won't be by cutting funding to what minimal socialist aspects they already have.

Australia suffers the same problem, more-so with unemployment and aboriginal welfare, there just is no incentive to find a job or make an effort when the government will pay you for doing nothing.






edit on 16/6/11 by Chadwickus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 03:00 AM
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At the moment you get free healthcare alot of things need to be taxed.
Alcohol, tabaco and junk food. But if I understand medicare wont cover as much as Canada, UK or Japan, those countries being all heavily taxed. Anyway i'm sure the government could cut a few billion of the military but who would dare, I mean look at JFK lol.

What people dont understand is Medicare is not an option or a choice its a way for big pharma to make even more money, it was carefully planned and unfortunately it wont be the first time they vote on something ppl are completely opposed to. I'm not saying its impossible just highly improbable.

Just a quick remember, back in the 90's Canadas debt made them extremely vulnerable to organization like IMF.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by SG-17
We need to cut military spending and stop spending so much money on pointless drug prohibition is what we need to do. The social programs are fine (though Social Security does need a major overhaul).


It is not that simple. We can cut military spending to nothing and it is not even half of the spending cut needed.

Our social programs are taking 100 percent of our income NOW. That will only increase as our population is aging, and medical costs continue to rise.

Nobody wants to hear it, but our social programs are not anywhere close to being sustainable.
edit on 16-6-2011 by proximo because: (no reason given)



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