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You people do know the Bible says we don't go to heaven, or the lake of fire when we die, right?

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posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



I never said I have all the answers, I just want to the best of my ability answer the questions he gave me. That's why I want to hear what he says about what I answered and have a discussion.


And I just happen to use the King James Version because I like the language and that it's been used for centuries as a trusted source, I'm not in a cult.
It's beautifully translated, if you want to use another version or if you can read the original languages go for that.

Don't be a-hating on my likings.


New International Version
24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled.
25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants.

New Living Translation
24 “Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, for the people I am driving out before you have defiled themselves in all these ways.
25 Because the entire land has become defiled, I am punishing the people who live there. I will cause the land to vomit them out.

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition
24Defile not yourselves with any of these things with which all the nations have been defiled, which I will cast out before you,
25And with which the land is defiled: the abominations of which I will visit, that it may vomit out its inhabitants.

They all seem to be saying the same thing.
I'm sorry I can't read the original language but I'm not that cultured, I trust what I have been given and if I have any questions I can easily find the answer somewhere.


May God be with you sir

edit on 3-7-2011 by JeshurunAndronicus because: Forgot the last part





posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by JeshurunAndronicus
 

I never said I have all the answers,. . .
Sorry about getting you upset.
I should have made it more clear that I meant the people I was pointing out by using the word, cult.
I was just linking to your post so that people would know where I was getting the quote from.



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by HolyandClean
 


After a person's spirit and soul leaves their former earthly body...they go to one of 2 places...either they ascend to Heaven or they are cast into the outer darkness of nothingness. This is the truth.



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by JeshurunAndronicus
 



They all seem to be saying the same thing.

You seem to be correct, so point taken.
There is always the need to find some justification for why God seems to be genocidal, from reading the Old Testament. That would be motivation to slant the translation process a certain way towards an outcome supporting of that goal. Personally, I have gotten away from those pursuits and understand that we don't have to defend those things so long ago in the past. We need to be dealing with the reality of today, which is that soon enough there will be no ground to pass on as an inheritance, since the world is coming to an end. Jesus pointed us to a world to come and how to be, in order to be a member of that new community, the one of resurrected souls.



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by caladonea
 


I think he was getting into technicalities of if there is some time interval which of course would be of no relevance to the person involved.



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


It's alright, I just don't like giving people the wrong idea about me, and I can be sarcastic as hell.

Nevertheless, I do stand with you, I don't see why people entitle the King James Version so highly, though it is beautifully worded.

Thank you for clearing up this misconception and I apologize, I did act meanly.

And I agree, but there will always be those people who like to disparage the Old Testament.

You seem to be a good man and I wish you well and may God bless you.



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by HolyandClean
 


After a person's spirit and soul leaves their former earthly body...they go to one of 2 places...either they ascend to Heaven or they are cast into the outer darkness of nothingness. This is the truth.


I want to clarify that I believe this happens right after death...I believe there is no waiting period.



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by JeshurunAndronicus
 

25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
Here is a good example of why a certain cult of so-called Christians love the King James Bible.
Here is the literal translation from the Hebrew:
"has become the land have brought punishment and out the land inhabitants."
You could possibly turn it around to where the land itself makes its inhabitants evil.
Thinking you have all the answers because of a particular book is what Jesus was against when he was on Earth.
]


Did you know in England, that people were executed and burned for reading the bible in English?


One of Wycliffe’s followers, John Hus, actively promoted Wycliffe’s ideas: that people should be permitted to read the Bible in their own language, and they should oppose the tyranny of the Roman church that threatened anyone possessing a non-Latin Bible with execution.


www.greatsite.com...

Of course that was the Roman Catholic Church i admit; and Martin Luther did make up for it:-


Almost exactly 100 years later, in 1517, Martin Luther nailed his famous 95 Theses of Contention (a list of 95 issues of heretical theology and crimes of the Roman Catholic Church) into the church door at Wittenberg. The prophecy of Hus had come true!


But the churches of many denominations of Christianity will be apologising later from atrocities they are committing today.

With that essential fanaticism you undertake when you insist upon the truth of the bible; it can't help but cause trouble.

You seem rather detached from the dogma, you're definetly not fanatical. Do you study the bible without bias as a biblical scholar? If not - Would you admit to confirmation bias when interepeting the Holy texts?
edit on 3-7-2011 by ExistentialNightmare because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by ExistentialNightmare
 
I don't belong to a church with a long history of being a church.
So I don't have dogma and there is no creed. That's just me and most people are not so lucky to have that opportunity to be brought up in a church that teaches, "The world is only going to get worse but God will give you new light for that day."



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by ExistentialNightmare
 


I do know about the persecutions of people when they tried to translate it into their own tongue, horrible stuff.


I try to interpret the Bible without bias as best I can but there are some bias inherently there for me: I always try to find a way to understand why God has decreed a certain commandment or judgment, how to best relate such, and how salvation might be reached for all.

I used to be an atheist and one of my biggest angers against religion (Christianity specifically) was that it condemned nonbelievers for simply not believing. I try to resolve this issue as best the scriptures may present but what I feel God has established that is final and my own personal views are irrelevant.

I don't think I have confirmation bias: I watch videos and research more about other religions (and atheism) to understand more about their position so that I may persuade more efficiently and effectively and why such would oppose Christianity and I personally don't like how a lot of people represent Christianity and sometimes I feel they only are for such because they have grown up as such.

May God bless you in your search for truth, kind sir



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by JeshurunAndronicus
 



I used to be an atheist and one of my biggest angers against religion (Christianity specifically) was that it condemned nonbelievers for simply not believing.I try to resolve this issue as best the scriptures may present but what I feel God has established that is final and my own personal views are irrelevant.


Well at least you are consistent with the doctrines; no homosexual orgies or mixed fabrics for you, comrade. And i sure hope you've respected the Sabbath today as commanded by the master.


May God bless you in your search for truth, kind sir


Awww...Of course, i would believe that to be an act of kindness if i truly believed in a benevolent deity. But, you're a consistent Christian, and as per your scripture, you know he won't bless me (I'm en route to Hell, oh yeahhh) and so i'm simply baffled as to why you would make such a statement.

Peace

edit on 3-7-2011 by ExistentialNightmare because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



"The world is only going to get worse but God will give you new light for that day."


Poetic.....the sun does come up every day. But of course, you know, we differ in the sense that you believe a deity has willed it, or perhaps you believe that God has made the universe with humans in mind? That he answers the prayers of a poorly evolved species in the suberbs of the Milky Way gallaxy? Of course, you believe him to be omnipotent; does he answer everyone's prayers like Santa adheres to Xmas Wish Lists?

It's hard to understand how people truly think of God; i just can't see where they are coming from; yet i am still full of love and wonder; i know if I'm wrong, and afterlife is true; a benevolent deity wouldn't eternally punish me.



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by JeshurunAndronicus
 

condemned nonbelievers for simply not believing. . .
You should watch the video I embedded into my post on Christians: You know who you are praying to? Not who you think, page 4.
That woke me up to a better understanding of what is in a name. When it says, name, in the Bible, it means more than just that but the very character of the person associated with that name.
What the author of that video says is that when it says, do not take my name in vain, it means do not assume my character as your own and not live up to it. If you apply the same idea to Jesus, you could say, only by such character as Jesus had will you be saved. That would answer the question of what about the people who never heard that name. Jesus is the way, which is the spiritual channel to becoming that good character, to me at least, regardless if you know about from a book, or not, so there is no excuse when we all have to face judgement.

edit on 3-7-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by ExistentialNightmare
 


Because the truth will make you free, duh!
And with freedom is love, and where love is God is there!


God loves all His creation, don't be so sure you aren't blessed by Him. He loves when one comes to Him in a humble spirit seeking only His truth.

Psalm 86:5
5 For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee.

Psalm 51:15-17
15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Ezekiel 18:23

23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

May God bless you sir and you turn to Him



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 07:33 PM
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reply to post by JeshurunAndronicus
 



Because the truth will make you free, duh!


Yes, i'm very much interested in truth, not revealed wisdom. If i want that, i'll try astrology, fortune telling or perhaps get in touch with someone who can contact my dead relatives from the "spirit realm".

Some claim what they are saying is the "truth" too. I enjoy absolute truth; again, not revealed wisdom that cannot be revealed without claiming to have special knowledge that others are unaware of.


edit on 3-7-2011 by ExistentialNightmare because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


I found the videos and I will watch them.
And that is around the avenue of what I think of now actually. I would also like to have others believe in God, too, as I'm sure you do.


The Bible relates that one must have faith and works, not just works and not just faith.
This is my dilemma for wanting atheists to believe.



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by ExistentialNightmare
 


I agree, but knowing of God isn't special wisdom. People are all at different waves of perception and cannot fathom what others consider a general truth, I'm sure you know this.
God is not a revealed truth but an experienced one, it is within oneself where one is able to understand truth and as many words as I may type I cannot utterly convince you but it is you who makes a choice to have faith or not. This is it is written:

Luke 17:20-21
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

What I find to be absolute truth is that there is a God and He is all-encompassing love.



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by JeshurunAndronicus
 


Thanks for sharing your side of the coin;

In regards to the OP, And Christianity; i'd say that most Christians who are consistent with doctrine would be cowards; they avoid expressing their views saying "It's between you and God" or "hate the sin, not the sinner".

So are most Christians confident in saying homosexuality is an abomination?

If you were willing to believe other passages, and preach and prosthelytize the doctrines; then surely you can admit Gays are sinful and homosexuality is an abonination? .....Or perhaps that we shouldn't plant certain crops next to each other? Or perhaps that worshipping other Gods is sinful?

if you were a consistent Christian, as per the "gentle Jesus, meak and mild" you would have to accept Mosaic law (Old Testament) and you would have to say that "sinners" (Like Atheists, and non-followers of Christianity; or adulterers) are all going to be eternally tortured.

I think you'll find most Christians are too cowardly to admit they believe these things as well; again; many will avoid confrantation and just stat "It's between you and the master in the book".

I find that amusing.
edit on 3-7-2011 by ExistentialNightmare because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by ExistentialNightmare
 


About homosexuality, I believe it is the sex that is sinful, not the homosexual. This is because it is done for pleasure and not for procreation. (Old fashioned, I know)
I also feel the same about contraceptives equaling the sin of homosexual sex and such like. If God had made me to born sexually attracted to men I wouldn't consider (I hope) myself sinful but only if I acted upon such lusts as I feel now if I would act my lusts towards women.


I don't know about the eternally tortured part, for woman taken in adultery received mercy from the Lord Jesus Christ: I feel salvation is universal and God is able to save all souls and will.
In this respect I am not as a typical Christian I suppose but I feel that God has guided me into such a belief and will maintain it as long as God leans me to such a position.

You can ask me anything, I would answer it to the best of my ability to comprehend God and His truth.
I won't back down but it is fully my decision to believe such and doesn't exactly represent the Christian Community at large.


May God bless you into His truth



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 08:07 PM
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reply to post by JeshurunAndronicus
 



I won't back down but it is fully my decision to believe such and doesn't exactly represent the Christian Community at large.


No worries; it's apparent that Christian "community" is divided into many denominations; proliferating schisms.

That's an honest disclaimer; respect.

Peace.




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