debunkers deniers skeptics bs artists can we establish this one small fact

reply to post by OccamAssassin


thank you very much for this reply

i had to go back and read it again to make sure you did not throw in a troll there



i see what you mean

and while i firmly agree with you about bending nature to humans will occurring throughout our history

i would not call this geo engineering for the purpose of changing the weather irregardless of the consequence or resulting weather change

is it caused by us

yes

but indirectly or more appropriately unintentional

reply to post by coastlinekid


touche and well played

reply to post by nightbringr


is this any different a title than some of the so called in house debunkers use

all the time

some being on the top thread list right now

the title was meant to get you here and respond to the question

responding to a thread title is fine

but could you not include an answer to the question posed in the op

or is it just the need to voice your concern about the thread title

Originally posted by Truther9111776
reply to post by OccamAssassin

 

thank you very much for this reply

i had to go back and read it again to make sure you did not throw in a troll there

i see what you mean

and while i firmly agree with you about bending nature to humans will occurring throughout our history

i would not call this geo engineering for the purpose of changing the weather irregardless of the consequence or resulting weather change

is it caused by us

yes

but indirectly or more appropriately unintentional

Maybe "climate engineering" would be a more appropriate term in this case.

reply to post by OccamAssassin


i can see how this would be better

you see what i am saying though right

reply to post by Truther9111776


Ok,... i am going to relent,... and make the assumption that you are not trolling,...

I have many times watched long streams of a white-looking substance following high-altitude planes while standing in my front yard....

Ten minutes later, I come out to observe those same streams spreading out into cloud-like formations...

I have even seen high-flying planes in delta formation,... spewing out "contrails" behind them,...
I don't know what they are,.. I just feel that I have been around on this earth a while,... and like some people,.. bother to look up more than the average human,...and you know what?... that sh*t ain't normal...

I'm sorry man,... but anybody who bothers to watch the daylight skies will start to see the difference between normal contrails,... and something different,...

And yes,.. I have seen the famous images of B-17's in WW2 streaming out contrails...


I'm talking about streams of white streaking across THE ENTIRE SKY...FROM HORIZON TO HORIZON...

that eventually disperse into CLOUDS...

reply to post by Truther9111776


Yes, in a very broad, loosely defined way, it does occur.

I'll leave it at that seeing that that is all you are looking for as an answer.

reply to post by coastlinekid

that sh*t ain't normal...

Interesting, seeing that you are knowledgeable in aviation and meteorology, why are persistent condensation vapor trails not normal?

reply to post by coastlinekid


thank you

not trolling

the title absolutely was used to get you here though

if it was misleading

i apologize

my mind is open to any and all possible methods

including the fabled aerial spraying

it is a legitimate process that could be used

irregardless of its current status

reply to post by ZombieJesus


I knew someone would freak on my laymen terminology...

Keep denying my friend...

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Truther9111776
reply to post by OccamAssassin

 

i can see how this would be better

you see what i am saying though right

Yeah, now its clarifying nicely.

The answer is the same though.

There have been many attempts at bending the climate to our will.

As mentioned, cloud seeding would be high on the list, but there are many more.

There were attempts in the 60's of using fine particulate matter (mainly aluminium) being dispersed into the upper-atmosphere to reflect sunlight.

Water jets were used in the 80's to accelerate(I don't know if this is the best term) evaporation and produce rain over desserts.

I believe there is a scientist in North America that wants to try and cover the Arctic Ice cap with a solar blanket to try and reflect the suns rays and slow the melt, though there are many who doubt its effectiveness.

If your trying to single out HAARP then you could probably say it influences the environment as it heats the upper atmosphere (very slightly) and then measures the time taken to return to equilibrium. Though I doubt very much that it could influence the weather on anything but a minute scale as the power consumption would be astronomical.*note. To heat the volume of air above Hawaii would require a power plant many times larger than anything currently available. I doubt that France could supply adequate power if it diverted all of its sources to that one task.

I designed an atmospheric cooling plant that utilised evaporation with solar energy as the primary source when I was studying engineering at uni. It would have required trillions of kilograms worth of plastic and the net result would have been an environmental disaster for the sake of converting 2000km-squared of dessert in Western Australia. It was a great exercise for me at the time but a monumental fail as far as the environment would be concerned.


I hope this helps

Originally posted by Truther9111776
does any geo engineering go on

Yes - undoubtably - see:

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

Absolutely undeniable geo-engineering on an industrial scale in some cases.

reply to post by coastlinekid


You didnt answer my question, and that video has been debunked here numerous times.


Again, why are persistent condenstion vapor trails not normal?

reply to post by ZombieJesus


Ok,.. persistent condensation vapor trails are normal,...

are these persistent condensation vapor trails?...

www.youtube.com...=59

I'm sure you will provide some mundane explanation for why these planes are flying in formation, (and, of course, they just happen to be flying together in a layer of atmosphere that just happens to have the right temp and pressure to make it SEEM like they are SPRAYING SH*T out of their ass...)

I guess we will all have to become experts in the field of atmospheric physics just to have an opinion... right
because,... after all,.. the rest of us are just ignorant...we have only been on this planet maybe as long as you and we never bother to look up and see things that aren't normal ...right?

we are not qualified to judge what is normal,... right?...

Originally posted by coastlinekid
I'm sure you will provide some mundane explanation for why these planes are flying in formation,

Yes, and if you had bothered to read the comments you would have seen
"Quote from contrailscience:

"Many people saw that 4 plane contrail formation on clear November 14th morning, it also flew over central London.

It was 4x Italian Air Force Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft flying home together after a visit in UK.

Military fighter planes often fly in close formations, because military pilots are taught to do that.""

So there was a simple mundane explanation - which you will ignore as it does not fit your silly conspiracy theory!

because,... after all,.. the rest of us are just ignorant

Some certainly are!

reply to post by spoor


And of course contrailscience is the final word...

end of discussion

there are no chemtrails...

Gee,.. thanks for that update

Originally posted by coastlinekid
there are no chemtrails...

The most accurate thing you have posted here!

Originally posted by coastlinekid
reply to post by Truther9111776

 

Ok,... i am going to relent,... and make the assumption that you are not trolling,...

I have many times watched long streams of a white-looking substance following high-altitude planes while standing in my front yard....

Ten minutes later, I come out to observe those same streams spreading out into cloud-like formations...

I have even seen high-flying planes in delta formation,... spewing out "contrails" behind them,...
I don't know what they are,.. I just feel that I have been around on this earth a while,... and like some people,.. bother to look up more than the average human,...and you know what?... that sh*t ain't normal...

I'm sorry man,... but anybody who bothers to watch the daylight skies will start to see the difference between normal contrails,... and something different,...

And yes,.. I have seen the famous images of B-17's in WW2 streaming out contrails...


I'm talking about streams of white streaking across THE ENTIRE SKY...FROM HORIZON TO HORIZON...

that eventually disperse into CLOUDS...

Interesting phenomena, but did you know that you are witnessing a form of cloud seeding.

Water in a gaseous state will persist and try to remain as a gas (remember water is unique in the fact that it can be in all three states of matter at 0 Celsius - i.e. gas is its preferred state, it needs to be coaxed to become a liquid or solid).

In the upper atmosphere there can be high concentrations of water in a gaseous state and yet still not form clouds (the first step to precipitation). As the moist air passes through the jet engine and the contrail is formed, it begins a snowball effect that catalyses(maybe not the best term but I'm sure you know what I mean) the air around the initial contrail into forming a cloud. When the moisture in the upper atmosphere is in a state of concentration you get a spreading blanket of cloud coming from the contrail.

In some parts of the world these are rare sights and some people go through their entire lives without witnessing this phenomena.I live on the eastern seaboard of Australia and we are lucky enough to see contrails on a daily basis but only get to see the contrail catalysed clouds that spread out like you have described every few years. This may be due to the fact that despite living near a major airport, Australia doesn't get the concentrations of air traffic that the Northern Hemisphere would see. Hence the odds of an aircraft passing through the atmosphere at the right altitude to start the catalysing effect is greatly reduced.

If you ever get the chance, please gets some pic's of it and post them. I'm sure that there are many people on ATS who (like me) would love to see it.

reply to post by OccamAssassin


great points and very interesting to read

i was not referring to haarp in any way

but since you brought it up

i would say if it was meant to alter our weather in any way by design then yea

but if as an indirect consequence weather is altered

i would have trouble calling it geo engineering or engineering the climate



it seems by our dialog and some other threads here and elsewhere

a common issue among this topic is terminology

Why would anyone want to alter the weather anyway?
Surely man made global warming (stop laughing at the back) is doing that for us?
Here in the UK it hasn't stopped raining for days yet the media, with no hint of irony, keeps telling us we're in a drought! Thats certainly a way of manipulating the weather Isn't it!?

Seriously, it would help if you gave your thoughts on what they are trying to accomplish by spraying contrails across the skies?