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A message from Elenin

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posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 07:04 PM
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IMO, the comet Elenin discovery has initiated more conspiracy pseudo-science browsing and whacked out theories than it has involved more people to research real science and astrophysics, because it's probably more boring than far-out opinions and bogus prophesies. And it's so vogue to distrust established peer reviewed and demonstrated to be observed to be repeatable consensus scientific theory.




posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by DJW001
 


NO, how about YOU take the time to plot it too. I gave all the co-ordinates. I don't know how to take a shot of my google sky and post it on here. I can only supply co-ords and hope you know what you're doing on Google Sky. I am also at work. All that info is on my home PC.
edit on 16-6-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 07:10 PM
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reply to post by LightAssassin
 


There's a print page button on your PC, or just get a MAC!



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by LightAssassin
 


NO, how about YOU take the time to plot it too.

If you go to the JPL browser and run through the the orbit diagram, you can see how the comet would appear to be moving from west to east as seen from the Earth until it makes its closest approach to Earth around September 23. The comet then pulls away from Earth, causing the comet to appear to be travelling from east to west, The Earth then overtakes it around Nov 15th, and the comet appears to start traveling from west to east again. In fact, both bodies continue on their circular or parabolic orbits. The change in direction is an optical illusion, like trains on different tracks seeming to move backwards relative to each other. That is what "apparent retrograde motion" is.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by Illustronic
 


I dont have a printer, I know how to take a screenshot, but I dont know how to upload the pic to ATS. Seriously, everyone is touting how we should go outside and do real science...all I am asking, is for some people who have better knowledge, to do what I have done, and then explain to me what I am seeing.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 07:41 PM
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OK, well your apparent ignorance is only making this, and yourself, even more suspect. I have looked at apparent retrograde motion...but what I am seeing isnt happening over the course of several months...its merely days, and this comet makes a tight turn...call it what you want...but until you actually plot it yourself, you wont even know what the !@#$ I am even talking about.
edit on 16-6-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by LightAssassin
 


You place the page in Word, and export it as a JPEG, then you can upload that if you don't have Photoshop (or a MAC).



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 07:48 PM
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reply to post by LightAssassin
 


Show us this 'tight turn' please. It's not on the JPL site.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by Illustronic
 


I HAVE POSTED THE CO-ORDINATES. YOU CAN OBTAIN THESE YOURSELF FROM JPL NASA WEBSITE. PUNCH IN THE DATES I MENTIONED, CLICK 'GENERATE EPHEMERIS', PUNCH IN THE CO-ORDINATES TO GOOGLE SKY....THEN TELL ME IF IT IS NORMAL.

I DONT KNOW HOW TO UPLOAD A SCREENSHOT. IF YOU CANT BE BOTHERED THEN YOU'RE BETTER OFF DEAD ANYWAY.
edit on 16-6-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)


edit on 16-6-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-6-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)


OK, I'm at work, I didnt see your explanation on how to upload, I will try this...for the lazy ones who actually dont really want to be told this isnt a comet...I also dont have Microsoft Word....only OpenOffice.org
edit on 16-6-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)


Actually, I dont care about convincing anyone. Ignorance is bliss they say. Enjoy living your life with all your material possessions, taking for granted everything around you, including the air you breathe. I know what I see. I dont care about sharing this info now because I have given it to you all to see for yourself. Be self-responsible but dont say i didnt tell ya so.
edit on 16-6-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)


I am no longer attending this thread. Please hold off on your celebrations.
edit on 16-6-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by LightAssassin
 


Exactly what do you think this comet is and why do you think what you think you think? It's a very unspectacular comet as comets go, which adds to the mystery and conspiracy, because it's so insignificant.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 09:10 PM
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alfa1

Your reponse hasn't really answered the question as you only gave a half truth


The dates that LightAssasin gave were from the 30th May 2011 to the 2nd June 2011.

Elenin certainly does experience "apparent retrograde motion" but DOES NOT change direction between the dates that LightAssasin provided.

Even the image that you provided shows that it doesn't change direction between these dates.

Cheers

JS



Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by LightAssassin
Download Google Earth, then change option to Google sky, then punch in the below boldened co-ordinates, now, as far as I can see, comets just go in an orbit, that is to say, a straightish (obviously a slight curvateur otherwise it wouldnt be an orbit would it) line....not shimmying left and right as this comet is doing.



I've got a better idea. Get away from google ANYTHING and go outside with your eyes or preferably with a pair of binoculars and start learning some practical astronomy by DOING it.
I cant believe this thread got to page 4 before anyone (me) had to point out that the "hard banking turn" is perfectly normal and expected.

This is where to find comet Elenin in the sky...


and yes it shimmys left and right, for sure.

Its not the only comet that does it. Here is comet Holmes doing a flippy flip in Perseus...


Asteroids do it too. Here is asteriod Vesta...

and see, it shimmys left and right.

Planets do it too.
Here is Mars doing some hard banking turns...


The reason is the effect known as "apparent retrograde motion"
Wikipedia

The comet/planet/asteriod doesnt actually move back and forth doing those "hard banking turns", but its just an effect of trying to watch that moving object while you're standing on another moving object (the earth).
For those too lazy to visit wikipedia and read about, look at this pic instead...



I hope this clears up what appears to have been a big misunderstanding.

And I repeat what I said earlier about going outside and looking at stuff in the sky.
DO it, dont google sky it.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 09:15 PM
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reply to post by Illustronic
 


I dont know. I know that coincidentally 3 times it has aligned wth the Earth and Sun there has been an earthquake of large proportions. I know that there isn't a clear idea of it's size yet...but that the coma has grown from 80,000km to 100,000km in diameter. I have also now seen it exhibit strange behaviour through plotting its travels on google sky...but I cant be certain of any of this, hence why i am raising the issue...

IMO, given that the thing turned over a mere 7 day period...I can only say that somehow it is controlled...so maybe a spaceship. Laugh all you want.

I've just come home for lunch and I have tried to do what you said, only in openoffice...with no success. It only allows exporting to .pdf or xhtml? Honesly, if someone else can take the time to plot this too, to try and replicate what I see, and then explain it to me in real terms, then I can put this idea to bed. until someone does this, and can explain it to me...then I have to go by what my eyes see.

@jumpspace The dates it turns are from May 25 - June 1 (But plot from May 21 - June 5 for a clearer picture) but this is one hell of a sharp turn. Now I can imagine in my head, coming towards us, but when i see it do this...I just cant explain it.

edit on 16-6-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)


And I have replicated this several times for my own satisfaction.

And honestly, I am really looking for a perfectly normal understandable explanation as to why it exhibits this directional change over the course of 4-5- days...not weeks or months.
edit on 16-6-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 04:49 AM
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Originally posted by LightAssassin
And honestly, I am really looking for a perfectly normal understandable explanation as to why it exhibits this directional change over the course of 4-5- days...not weeks or months



I gave you the answer 24 hours ago. Apparent retrograde motion.
Nobody said it had to take weeks or months to do the turn. Looking back through the thread as near as I can tell YOU are the one that invented such a supposed mythical fact.
Days is perfectly normal. Stop being hysterical.

Here is an example of Mars doing such a turn in a few days.


Note that this is the very first example of a retrograde turn that I found on the net. It wasnt singled out as a good example because of its speed. Its a normal one, showing that such turns happening in only a matter of days is normal.

The original astronomy article where I found it can be found here...
www.astronomy.com...

Edit - just thinking about it a bit further, it would be true that objects with a low orbital inclination (comet Elenin,.Mars, Jupiter as examples) "appear" to turn sharper because the declination wouldnt change much during the turn. Just the Right Ascension, so they dont appear to sweep through the turn, but just stop and head back the other way. But again thats just the illusion.

edit on 17-6-2011 by alfa1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 06:18 AM
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reply to post by alfa1
 


Hey man, thankyou a lot. Nowhere that I read really gave me an idea of the time it could take, AND all the pictures always showed a timeline that was greater than that which I can see on Google Sky, with Elenin.

Like I said, I am not an expert, and you have given me a decent enough explanation for this behaviour of the comet.

Many thanks.

Now its just a matter of the next alignment and the moment of closest approach.
edit on 17-6-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by LightAssassin
WHO HAS PLOTTED ELENINS PATH IN GOOGLE SKY FROM THE CO-ORDINATES GIVEN ON NASA JPL?!?!?!

I suggest you use Celestia and put in the orbital elements for Elenin. Not only will you be able to see where the comet appeared over time from earth's perspective, you'll be able to move the camera around to see the geometry involved so that you can actually understand WHY it follows that path in the sky.


IT'S NOT A COMET. OVER A 6 DAY PERIOD, TRAVELLING AT A SUPPOSED 85,000KM/H, IT MADE A HARD BANKING TURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU FOOLS. IT'S NOT A COMET.

Before calling other people fools, I suggest you study the concept of retrograde motion as it applies to the apparent motion of solar system bodies.


Oh, whats the 'Official' Size of the comet? Who knows!!!! Whats the official size of the Coma? It has grown from 80,000km in diameter to over 100,000km in diameter!!!

Pretty normal for a minor comet. Comet Lulin, for comparison, had a coma 500,000 km wide.


Why was NASA's Buzzroom shutdown after someone posted new trajectory of the comet claiming it to be on course to make contact with Earth?

Because a NASA watchdog group complained about the buzzroom's unintended effect of giving what looked like credibility to lunatics, not to mention the fact that it also collected completely unrelated and inappropriate videos.
nasawatch.com...

The comet is following the published orbit, it's not on course to make contact with earth.


Why was he able to spot a comet, with a very high magnitude (which I think means almost impossible to see), with very limited equipment when astronomers around the world, with far more powerful equipment weren't able to see it???

An 18" telescope is not "very limited equipment." And no one ever said anything about astronomers with more powerful equipment being unable to see it, they simply didn't find it, he did. He was conducting a systematic search with a scope that had a much wider field of view than most professional observatories, making it a better comet hunting scope than an extremely long focal length instrument like Hubble would be. Other astronomers confirmed his discovery though immediately after he reported it. There's nothing unusual about a comet at that magnitude being found by an amateur astronomer conducting a CCD based search. It happens all the time.


and for those who aren't concerned...I guess ignorance is bliss. So be it.

I strongly suggest you learn a lot more about amateur astronomy before accusing others of being ignorant.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:06 PM
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reply to post by ngchunter
 


Yeh mate, I'm still removing foot from my mouth. Haha, I can also see the hypocrosy of accusing someone of being ignorant when my line-of-thought isn't educated enough to understand ALL the concepts.

Thanks for sticking the boot in just that little bit more.


And I do apologise for calling people fools. As it happens, I am the fool.



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 02:33 AM
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LightAssasin

Comet Elenin does suffer from apparent retrograde motion, however IT DOES NOT change direction on the date range you supplied.

Cheers

JS


Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by ngchunter
 


Yeh mate, I'm still removing foot from my mouth. Haha, I can also see the hypocrosy of accusing someone of being ignorant when my line-of-thought isn't educated enough to understand ALL the concepts.

Thanks for sticking the boot in just that little bit more.


And I do apologise for calling people fools. As it happens, I am the fool.



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 02:53 AM
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Yes, and it DOES NOT explain why Elenin makes a sharp turn OVER A 7 DAY PERIOD.


You clearly do not understand the difference between the orbit of a comet, and its apparent motion as seen from Earth. Honestly, there is nothing unusual about the trajectory of this comet. Please don't look for conspiracies where none exist.

edit on 18-6-2011 by Mogget because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 03:20 AM
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Originally posted by jumpspace
LightAssasin

Comet Elenin does suffer from apparent retrograde motion, however IT DOES NOT change direction on the date range you supplied.

Cheers

JS


Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by ngchunter
 


Yeh mate, I'm still removing foot from my mouth. Haha, I can also see the hypocrosy of accusing someone of being ignorant when my line-of-thought isn't educated enough to understand ALL the concepts.

Thanks for sticking the boot in just that little bit more.


And I do apologise for calling people fools. As it happens, I am the fool.


That is a downright lie.

If I could take a picture of this, AND I URGE EVERYONE TO DO IT FOR CURIOSITIES SAKE, and post it up here I absolutely would.

It, without a doubt turns

2011-May-22 00:00 10 27 31.79 +08 09 10.1 15.42 17.53 1.83272437235168 0.6786545 95.1750 /T 27.6491
2011-May-23 00:00 10 27 21.74 +08 10 23.2 15.39 17.52 1.83310195157120 0.6270240 94.1676 /T 27.9017
2011-May-24 00:00 10 27 13.51 +08 11 25.7 15.36 17.52 1.83344673062824 0.5650877 93.1686 /T 28.1490
2011-May-25 00:00 10 27 07.10 +08 12 17.7 15.32 17.51 1.83375277044760 0.4928955 92.1779 /T 28.3911
2011-May-26 00:00 10 27 02.51 +08 12 59.0 15.29 17.50 1.83401416520049 0.4105122 91.1955 /T 28.6281
2011-May-27 00:00 10 26 59.72 +08 13 29.8 15.26 17.49 1.83422505005614 0.3180142 90.2215 /T 28.8601
2011-May-28 00:00 10 26 58.75 +08 13 50.1 15.23 17.48 1.83437960669257 0.2154856 89.2557 /T 29.0872
2011-May-29 00:00 10 26 59.58 +08 13 59.8 15.19 17.48 1.83447206672040 0.1030148 88.2982 /T 29.3095
2011-May-30 00:00 10 27 02.21 +08 13 58.9 15.16 17.47 1.83449671382447 -0.0193063 87.3489 /T 29.5270
2011-May-31 00:00 10 27 06.63 +08 13 47.6 15.12 17.46 1.83444788583435 -0.1513816 86.4078 /T 29.7399
2011-Jun-01 00:00 10 27 12.83 +08 13 25.8 15.09 17.45 1.83431997812598 -0.2931072 85.4750 /T 29.9483
2011-Jun-02 00:00 10 27 20.82 +08 12 53.5 15.05 17.44 1.83410744970740 -0.4443656 84.5503 /T 30.1522

You can even see the trend of the coorinates...You are lying....I have to wonder what your purpose is though for lying...I am convinced in the possibility of apparent retrograde motion...BUT THERE IS NO WAY TO CONVINCE ME THIS COMET ISNT TURNING IN THESE DATES. YOU CAN SEE IT IN THE EPHEMERIS DATA. THE CO-ORDINATE TREND EVEN SUGGESTS THIS.

See, now your attempt at dis-info has made me even more suspicious.

I urge EVERYONE to atleast do this once, it takes about 5 mins to plot it in Google Sky. Once the coordinates are punched in, wait for it to zoom to the coords, then put a pin in it. After doing this for the 12 coordinates YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE A TURN, whatver the cause though, I cant be sure, but I can grasp the idea of apparent retrograde motion...even though it seems like a lot of motion over a short amount of time.

It's one thing to convince me using facts and knowledge, its another to try and convince me of something i have obtained the facts of.




edit on 18-6-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)





Sorry, what was that...I couldnt hear you....
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posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by LightAssassin
 



Sorry, what was that...I couldnt hear you....


Thank you for posting that screen shot. It demonstrates that over the course of a week and a half, the Comet had an apparent retrograde motion of less than one degree. Please, please re-read the article on apparent retrograde motion.







 
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