Weren't the founding fathers free masons? As far as I'm aware they were genuinely standing for freedom but please correct me if I'm wrong, my North
American history is shaky. I know there is a lot of bad feelings towards the higher levels of freemasonry but I think like most things it has become
corrupt over time.
Is the Statue of Liberty Masonic?, page 1
Topic started on 15-6-2011 @ 08:41 AM by network dude
Being involoved in a few recent threads, the assertion that the Statue of Liberty was a masonic statue has been made. I admit, I didn't know a great
deal about her before I looked into this. (just one of the reasons I love this site)
After studying a bit, it seems that the original idea man, Edouard de Laboulaye, was in fact a mason.
link to source
Funding:
this quote is the short version of what happened. Pulitzer got involved and helped raise the money for the platform. But not without attempting, failing, and then re-attempting.
link to source
link to source
So in conclusion, I have found masonic involvement, but I cannot see a direct link with masonry in any way. Perhaps some of our more informed members here can add to this. If not, I had fun learning about a large part of American History that I completely ignored when it was taught the first time. I hope you do as well.
After studying a bit, it seems that the original idea man, Edouard de Laboulaye, was in fact a mason.
Masons everywhere can take special pride in the part our great Fraternity played in the crea- tion and erection, nearly 100 years ago, of the most unique symbol of freedom and oppor- tunity, the Statue of Liberty. In the summer of 1865, a group of Fren- chmen were gathered together one evening at the home of the well-known author, Edouard Rene de Laboulaye, in the village of Glavingny, a suburb of Paris. Among those present were Oscar and Edmond de Lafayette, grandsons of the Marquis d' Lafayette, Masonic brother of George Washington; Henri Martin, the noted historian and French Mason; and a young artist from Colmar in French (later German) Alsace by the name of Frederic Auguste Bartholdi, who at the time was engaged in making a bust of Laboulaye, called by one biographer "America's most ardent admirer in France." Laboulaye told the group that it would be a splendid gesture on the part of all liberty-loving Frenchmen to acknowledge their friendship to America by presenting a fitting memorial. (Some have speculated that he had a second motive in mind--to call attention to the con- trast between the American way of life with its freedoms and that of the French under the repressive Second Empire.)
link to source
Funding:
this quote is the short version of what happened. Pulitzer got involved and helped raise the money for the platform. But not without attempting, failing, and then re-attempting.
Since the Statue was a joint effort between America and France, it was agreed that the American people were to build the pedestal, and the French people were responsible for the Statue and assembly. In France, public fees, various forms of entertainment and items with the Statue on it were ways to raise money. This was also tried in the United States- but with limited results. Joseph Pulitzer stepped in and was able to raise the remaining money for the pedestal using his newspaper "The World". The Statue was completed in France in July of 1884, then disassembled and shipped to the United States. She arrived in NY In June 1885. Once the pedestal was finished, the statue was re-assembled in four months. On October 28, 1886 the dedication of the Statue of Liberty took place in front of thousands of spectators.
link to source
Looking deeper into the history of the Statue of Liberty indicates that sculptor Frederic Auguste Bartholdi and engineer Alexandre Gustave Eiffel (who designed the Eiffel Tower) were the ones responsible for bringing Lady Liberty to fruition. In an agreement between France and the United States, the French would build the statue and the Americans would build the base. In France, money for the Statue of Liberty was raised by charitable donations, performances of plays and operas and from a charitable lottery. In the U. S., theatre plays, art auctions and prize fights were held to raise money for the base. The sculptor had wanted to complete the liberty statue by July 4, 1876 and present it at this time for America's centennial, but because of technical and financial delays only the arm with torch was completed at this time and on display in Philadelphia at the Centennial Exposition. Visitors could pay 50-cents each to climb to the torch balcony and this money was used to fund the building of the pedestal. History has it that the face of Lady Liberty was completed on June 30, 1878 and was displayed at the Paris Exposition. The real identity of Lady Liberty's face has been the subject of debate and experts believe she was modeled after either Isabella Eugenie Boyer or Bartholdi's mother. In 1882, France was able to complete the financing for the Statue of Liberty. Back in the U. S., however, money was still being sought to build the base. Publisher Joseph Pulitzer who would later establish the Pulitzer Prize, used his newspaper, The World to do fundraising for the pedestal.
link to source
So in conclusion, I have found masonic involvement, but I cannot see a direct link with masonry in any way. Perhaps some of our more informed members here can add to this. If not, I had fun learning about a large part of American History that I completely ignored when it was taught the first time. I hope you do as well.
reply posted on 15-6-2011 @ 08:53 AM by network dude
reply to post by TechUnique
some of the founding father were masons. I feel that most of the principals of our country were based on masonic philosophy. But not all involved were masons, and my feelings are only opinions. The Statue of Liberty was supposed to be presented in 1876 on our centennial celebration. But due to funding problems, and a shaky political situation in France, it was delayed. So our country had already been established, and was in the early stages of becoming what it is today.
some of the founding father were masons. I feel that most of the principals of our country were based on masonic philosophy. But not all involved were masons, and my feelings are only opinions. The Statue of Liberty was supposed to be presented in 1876 on our centennial celebration. But due to funding problems, and a shaky political situation in France, it was delayed. So our country had already been established, and was in the early stages of becoming what it is today.
reply posted on 15-6-2011 @ 09:03 AM by network dude
reply to post by TribeOfManyColours
the history tells a bit of a different story than a re-gift. All the sources I found told the same story, just some had more detail in the funding issues.
The design wasn't intended to be a light bearer of anything like that. In fact, nothing aside from Pike's work really goes into a light bearer. We discuss light in the form of knowledge, but not in the sense of that horribly misquoted paragraph. I caught that episode of decoded. It ended like they all do. With no more knowledge than it started with IMHO. But I did appreciate the fact that people with some sense dispelled all the wacko Satanic stuff that was brought up. I swear, some folks are so obsessed with the devil that they look for him everywhere. They should be looking for God. he is much easier to find and in my opinion a much better catch.
the history tells a bit of a different story than a re-gift. All the sources I found told the same story, just some had more detail in the funding issues.
The design wasn't intended to be a light bearer of anything like that. In fact, nothing aside from Pike's work really goes into a light bearer. We discuss light in the form of knowledge, but not in the sense of that horribly misquoted paragraph. I caught that episode of decoded. It ended like they all do. With no more knowledge than it started with IMHO. But I did appreciate the fact that people with some sense dispelled all the wacko Satanic stuff that was brought up. I swear, some folks are so obsessed with the devil that they look for him everywhere. They should be looking for God. he is much easier to find and in my opinion a much better catch.
reply posted on 15-6-2011 @ 09:42 AM by torqpoc
reply to post by network dude
Dear Network Dude,
Lovely post! Thank you for that. As per our past U2Us, somethings I won't discuss, but this topic is close to my heart being a Frenchman. Everything you state is correct from all the knowledge I have and have read on the topic. I don't think there is any direct Masonic involvement, other than some of those involved were part of the Brotherhood. There may be some "friendship" links which at the base level came from Masonic links, but I feel that this is as far as things go.
My respects,
T
Dear Network Dude,
Lovely post! Thank you for that. As per our past U2Us, somethings I won't discuss, but this topic is close to my heart being a Frenchman. Everything you state is correct from all the knowledge I have and have read on the topic. I don't think there is any direct Masonic involvement, other than some of those involved were part of the Brotherhood. There may be some "friendship" links which at the base level came from Masonic links, but I feel that this is as far as things go.
My respects,
T
reply posted on 15-6-2011 @ 09:50 AM by network dude
We [the US and France] have architect and sculptor Frederick Auguste Batholdi to thank for this beautiful lady in more ways then one. The original ‘life size’ cast of the Statue of Liberty stands amongst the beautiful flower gardens and fountains of Paris Luxembourg Gardens [which is home to the French Senate] in Paris. On her pedestal she’s approximately 15 feet high and absolutely ‘magnifique’ among the flowers and trees. This was architect/sculptor Batholdi’s miniature mold for the American Statue of Liberty. Another, yet larger Statue of Liberty is approximately 35 feet in height on her base, and stands upon a tiny island called Swan Ally, Paris [Allée des Cygnes] in the Seine near the Grenelle Bridge. This exact Statue of Liberty replica monument was offered to the French by the American residents of Paris as a remembrance to commemorate the Centennial of the French Revolution. It was inaugurated on November 15, 1889 and was placed so that it faced the Eiffel Tower [so not to have it’s back to the Élysée Palace]. Statute of Liberty in Luxembourg Gardens, Paris However, it’s creator Bartholdi was most upset that it did not face the New York location of the Statue of Liberty. But with persistence, as was his nature, Batholdi finally achieved getting the statue turned to face America at the time of the World's Fair in Paris
link to source
it appears that there are Three Statues. Another interesting fact that I did not know. Having seen the National Treasure movies, I was aware of a second one.
This may not mean anything at all to non masons, but in masonry, the reason we don't recruit is so that you come to the craft on your own, because you are ready to learn the information. This thread is a perfect example of why that is. I had no interest in hearing this information when I was in school. So I didn't retain any of it. Now that I have a genuine interest in this subject, I not only will retain what I have learned, but I will keep looking for more information.
reply posted on 15-6-2011 @ 10:11 AM by Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by network dude
According to National Treasures 2 Nicolas Cage talks about this also. He also states about other things done by the mason's. I know it isn't a credible source or anything but interesting nonetheless...
According to National Treasures 2 Nicolas Cage talks about this also. He also states about other things done by the mason's. I know it isn't a credible source or anything but interesting nonetheless...
reply posted on 15-6-2011 @ 10:24 AM by KSigMason
reply to post by Vanishr
Other than you stating it, what proof do you have of "infiltration"?
I highly doubt you know anything of the structure of Freemasonry and the myth of this "high vs low" anti-Masons seem to hold on to.
I hope to be judged fairly by God. My record and faith will speak for itself.
Other than you stating it, what proof do you have of "infiltration"?
I highly doubt you know anything of the structure of Freemasonry and the myth of this "high vs low" anti-Masons seem to hold on to.
I hope to be judged fairly by God. My record and faith will speak for itself.
reply posted on 15-6-2011 @ 10:55 AM by Vanishr
reply to post by KSigMason
Iam not an anti mason, i will not discriminate against you just because you are a mason.
Just look at how many high level masons are in the government, high up in corporations, the illuminati have infiltrated every other 'grade' of society, why do all masons find it impossible that its happened to there orginization.
It would have been before your time & before mine. Hell, the original guys who completed the infiltration, there probably dead now, but one of their founding rules, All members MUST do everything in their power to promote another member to a prominent position, be it in whatever society or organisation they are in.
The Bush's are masons, Tony blair is a mason, look at what they've done to our countries.
Iam not saying all masons are evil people, i understand that the lower masons are striving to better themselves,
Its undeniable that some high up masons in prominent positions are serving the NWO/Illuminati agenda, if thats not enough evidence of infiltration ? then there isnt anything else to say on the matter.
Now before you dispute, 'how do i have proof that they are masons' go do some research on the scumbags, They are not true masons, more imposers to the true craft, that you all adore. They are making a mockery of you guys & i wish some of you would stop being so ignorant to the obvious.
Iam not an anti mason, i will not discriminate against you just because you are a mason.
Just look at how many high level masons are in the government, high up in corporations, the illuminati have infiltrated every other 'grade' of society, why do all masons find it impossible that its happened to there orginization.
It would have been before your time & before mine. Hell, the original guys who completed the infiltration, there probably dead now, but one of their founding rules, All members MUST do everything in their power to promote another member to a prominent position, be it in whatever society or organisation they are in.
The Bush's are masons, Tony blair is a mason, look at what they've done to our countries.
Iam not saying all masons are evil people, i understand that the lower masons are striving to better themselves,
Its undeniable that some high up masons in prominent positions are serving the NWO/Illuminati agenda, if thats not enough evidence of infiltration ? then there isnt anything else to say on the matter.
Now before you dispute, 'how do i have proof that they are masons' go do some research on the scumbags, They are not true masons, more imposers to the true craft, that you all adore. They are making a mockery of you guys & i wish some of you would stop being so ignorant to the obvious.
reply posted on 15-6-2011 @ 11:51 AM by pepsi78
The foundation stone.
The foundation plate is masonic, it also tells that there was a masonic ceremony after the installment.
The mason who designed it and it's colleges.
The sculptor was Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi (1834-1904) and the internal structure was designed by Eiffel Tower architect Gustave Eiffel's assistant Maurice Koechlin.
Read more: wiki.answers.com...
New York’s harbor was conceived by Freemasons, financed by Freemasons, built by Freemasons, and installed by Freemasons in a Freemasonic ceremony.
Other masonic conections to her is father time and the virgin, the seal of the united states, especially the inscription. She is highly affiliated with Saturnial roman deity.
Masonry is part of the big Roman Empire enterprise the ruling class of today. The establishment.
The foundation plate is masonic, it also tells that there was a masonic ceremony after the installment.
At this site on August 5, 1884, the cornerstone of the pedestal of the Statue of “Liberty Enlightening the World” was laid with ceremony by William A. Brodie, Grand Master of Masons in the State of New York. Grand lodge members, representatives of the United States and French governments,
The mason who designed it and it's colleges.
The sculptor was Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi (1834-1904) and the internal structure was designed by Eiffel Tower architect Gustave Eiffel's assistant Maurice Koechlin.
Read more: wiki.answers.com...
New York’s harbor was conceived by Freemasons, financed by Freemasons, built by Freemasons, and installed by Freemasons in a Freemasonic ceremony.
Other masonic conections to her is father time and the virgin, the seal of the united states, especially the inscription. She is highly affiliated with Saturnial roman deity.
Masonry is part of the big Roman Empire enterprise the ruling class of today. The establishment.
edit on 15-6-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 15-6-2011 @ 03:04 PM by network dude
Originally posted by pepsi78
The foundation stone.
The foundation plate is masonic, it also tells that there was a masonic ceremony after the installment.
At this site on August 5, 1884, the cornerstone of the pedestal of the Statue of “Liberty Enlightening the World” was laid with ceremony by William A. Brodie, Grand Master of Masons in the State of New York. Grand lodge members, representatives of the United States and French governments,
did you notice the date on the plate? look at your picture and see what it says.
I have no doubt that the two men mainly responsible for it's creation were masons, but I find nothing that points to it being a masonic thing. Not it's apparent symbolism, not it's funding, and not it's purpose. Do you have any real proof to say otherwise? I would truly be interested in real proof saying that it is masonic, but don't take this the wrong way, you have a history of presenting opinion as fact. Facts have reputable sources.
The mason who designed it and it's colleges.
The sculptor was Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi (1834-1904) and the internal structure was designed by Eiffel Tower architect Gustave Eiffel's assistant Maurice Koechlin.
Read more: wiki.answers.com...
New York’s harbor was conceived by Freemasons, financed by Freemasons, built by Freemasons, and installed by Freemasons in a Freemasonic ceremony.
woah there! Financed by Freemasons? I think you are going to have to bring a bit more than your word on this one. Also that it was installed by Freemasons. The two driving forces behind it were masons, but you are telling me that somewhere there is a group of operative and speculative masons who go around doing masonry labor? Or are you just referring to the men who layed the brick as being masons? You do know that there are two different kinds of masons right? And the ceremony to lay the cornerstone is a common one that happens to a lot of buildings that may have nothing at all to do with masonry. I will try to find you some information on that.
Other masonic conections to her is father time and the virgin, the seal of the united states, especially the inscription. She is highly affiliated with Saturnial roman deity.
no,no, stop right there. Lets not go down your road of trying to tie all of you whacked out theories together on this. If you cannot bring solid facts with your assertions, don't bring them.
Masonry is part of the big Roman Empire enterprise the ruling class of today. The establishment.
edit on 15-6-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)
I am sorry to be the guy to break this to you, but Rome fell. It went away. The Roman empire is no more. It's history is still rich, and there are some wonderful pieces of art left over from that period, but it's gone.
reply posted on 15-6-2011 @ 03:06 PM by network dude
reply to post by Vanishr
I think you have been getting your information from the wrong source. Most of what you are bringing come from decades of anti-masonic hate brought out by the church and some cult followers. If you do some unbiased research, you will find a vastly different set of information.
I think you have been getting your information from the wrong source. Most of what you are bringing come from decades of anti-masonic hate brought out by the church and some cult followers. If you do some unbiased research, you will find a vastly different set of information.
reply posted on 15-6-2011 @ 05:19 PM by pepsi78
did you notice the date on the plate? look at your picture and see what it says.
I have no doubt that the two men mainly responsible for it's creation were masons, but I find nothing that points to it being a masonic thing. Not it's apparent symbolism, not it's funding, and not it's purpose. Do you have any real proof to say otherwise?
What do you mean by this, the main plate writing does no indicate who consturcted it, it mentions the installment and of the ceremony. It never was meant to say otherwise, as for the owning it is clear it has a square and a compass on it.
I would truly be interested in real proof saying that it is masonic, but don't take this the wrong way, you have a history of presenting opinion as fact. Facts have reputable sources.
The person who made the design as in the sclupture was a mason, the interior designer was a mason,
there for the seal on the foundation plate as a masonic art, these were the main designers, the rest were assistants. Shortly put the scluptor who designed the statue was a mason, the statue was not made in united states, it was imported, but I'm sure you know that.
As for who built it phisicaly it was Engenier Gustave Eiffel, also a free mason, the rest were construction workers, you don't expect masons to go up on scales and build statues.
So it was founded by the masons, designed by the masons, built by the masons .
woah there! Financed by Freemasons? I think you are going to have to bring a bit more than your word on this one.
Another plate.
There is a tablet placed by the New York committee that commemorates the fundraising done to build the pedestal. The cornerstone also bears a plaque, placed by the Freemasons.
It's what I have said, is this not finance ?
This was on the american side.
For the french side it was raised by donation, no one paid for it.
All the funding that was ever done indeed came from the side of American free masons. It should tell you something. The rest came from donations.
www.statueliberty.net...
In France, money for the Statue of Liberty was raised by charitable donations, performances of plays and operas and from a charitable lottery. In the U. S., theatre plays, art auctions and prize fights were held to raise money for the base.
I am sorry to be the guy to break this to you, but Rome fell. It went away. The Roman empire is no more. It's history is still rich, and there are some wonderful pieces of art left over from that period, but it's gone.
No it's secured it's future, within the european union, united states, roiality still rules in the united kingdom as you might not notice it. I find it hard to beilive. E
I don't see how it failed since everything is the descent of the roman empire, we live in different nations for now but they are about to be forged into the colective, the rise of the old roman empire.
Speaking of statues here is another work from Thomas Crawford a mason, on another statue, the statue above the white house.
The lady that sits at the top of the white house.
She is another roman icon, she wears the ring of 12 stars on her head as seen in the above picture. In other words this
perdurabo10.tripod.com...
She is a beautiful motherly figure, with golden hair and wearing a crown of 12 stars.
This affliates masonry even further to the establishment, roman empire, and shows the presence of the roman empire, or should I call them the men of the old, because it's really what they are.
If you ask me the capitol of united states looks like a funeral city full of roman symbolism. Almost as they would worship some god of the underworld.
edit on 15-6-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)
edit on 15-6-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)
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