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Why do I spend my time posting on chemtrail threads debunking. What are my motives?

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posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 03:38 AM
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OK, as I have been accused of being some kind of goverment agent of disinformation on many an occassion I thought I would clear up my motives for posting on these forums.


I am a physics graduate, who works in a university in the UK in a research role, nothing amazing or special, I spend most of my time looking at aerodynamic drag of different materials and plotting that against weight, strength and flexibility.

Because I work in aeronautics I came across the chemtrail theory and spent some time looking into it, looked at all the youtube videos and read the websites and found nothing out of the ordinary in any of them. What I did see was repeated fallacies about how contrails dissapear within minutes but chemtrails stay for hours, videos of two planes in the same sky, one leaving a lasting trail, one not etc, etc, etc. Now I know for a fact that all these things are normal and happen naturally for various reasons: pressure differences at altitudes, jetstreams, weather fronts etc.

I even saw one video where it stated that chemtrails were often sprayed in front of incoming weather fronts to delay them or something. The point is -- when a weather front comes in contrails last longer because there is more moisture in the air and a drop in temperature. The cause and effect is the wrong way round here.

What I saw that concerned me more was people making money out of spreading this fear, I honestly thought that if I could spread some genuine technical information about all these videos and photos then perhaps I could stop a few people being scammed and stop some people being scared of nothing, this is my only motivation.

Here are a few common misconceptions that I see appearing over and over again and held up as evidence on chemtrails.


1. -- (from older members) - when I was young there were never skies full of criss crossing chemtrails that lasted for hours. I believe my eyes, I know what I see

a. -- Air traffic has increased exponentially over the last 20 years. In 1980 there were 84% fewer jets in the air than there are now, think about it. In 1980 if 16 jets flew over you in a day, now 100 do. Are you surprised there are more contrails now. If before you had 3 jets in a day leave a persistent contrail, now there are 20. Of course the sky is littered with more of them and has changed. --- Whether this is acceptable or not is a different argument.

2. When they start spraying it turns into total cloud cover and covers the whole sky -- this is proof of chemtrails

a. -- No this is not proof of chemtrails, this is what I exlpained above in the weather front paragraph. The point is that when you have persistent contrails it means the high atmospheric conditions are perfect for cirrus clouds to form -- after all contrails are clouds. This means probably (not always) you have a weather front of cirrus clouds moving in over your head. So of course before the front arrives planes start leaving persistent contrails, the clouds you see later are not the contrails turning into clouds -- the persistent trails are often a sign to you that lower pressure with more moisture is moving in on you, not the cause of it.

3, Contrails go in minutes, chemtrails last for hours.

a. -- This one is hardly worth answering because it is a simple falsehood that can be found to be true with very very little research. Contrails will behave according to atmospheric conditions, they could be long, short, last for hours, go in minutes etc etc. You could quite easily see 2 planes in the sky leaving totally different trails. This is totally normal, you have a very wide field of view in the sky, these planes could be 60 miles apart and at totally different altitudes, the conditions are totally different at different altitudes and different weather systems have very marked fronts.


Once again, I am not here to upset people, cause offence or abuse. I am not a secret government agent paid to spread disinformation, I simply want to stop people being scared of normal weather behaviour and stop the con artists who are praying on peoples fears to make money.




posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 04:06 AM
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Assuming chemtrails are real, couldnt one argue that there are similarities between chemtrials and contrails ?

I raise this because I have personally seen planes fly side by side, making aerial U-turns only to backtrack and continue for hours on end, resulting in cross hatch patterns. I'm not saying they are chemtrails, but these actions are suspicious.
edit on 15-6-2011 by WordPlayJAy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 04:07 AM
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irregardless of how i feel on this particular theory

i would like to know

who exactly is making money from spreading this theory

i know about some of the movies regarding this theory

but are most of them if not all of them on line for free in one format or another

what else is there to make money on exactly



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 04:12 AM
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rt.com...

Phosgene's what there spraying, apparently.

Interesting how it mentions Evergreen Aviation & so many others have mentioned it as a CIA front for chemtrailers.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 04:23 AM
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reply to post by Vanishr
 


All I have to say to that link is

...Colleen Thomas...

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 04:27 AM
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reply to post by Chadwickus
 


Theres me thinking my post sounded sarcastic enough as it was, obviously not !



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 04:30 AM
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reply to post by Vanishr
 


Aye carumba!

You got me!



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 04:32 AM
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Originally posted by Truther9111776
irregardless of how i feel on this particular theory

i would like to know

who exactly is making money from spreading this theory

i know about some of the movies regarding this theory

but are most of them if not all of them on line for free in one format or another

what else is there to make money on exactly


As posted on other threads here

Will Thomas, one of the original pioneers of Chemtrails

willthomasonline.net...

Will Thomas sells books, he promotes his ideas on the internet to sell his books.

Ted Gunderson, another of the main proponents of chemtrails, sells DVDs and has a donate to Ted page on his website

www.tedgunderson.net...









posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 05:14 AM
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Originally posted by Truther9111776
irregardless of how i feel on this particular theory

i would like to know

who exactly is making money from spreading this theory


One blogger has postulated a theory that the chemtrail hoax is supported by advertising from the coal industry as a way to take attention away from the pollution coal causes - see www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 05:30 AM
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reply to post by SirCoxone
 


Your entire OP is nothing new..
The same lines have been repeated practically word for word by countless other debunkers..

I am on the fence with chemtrails having only seen pictures and descriptions of strange aircraft behavior like the U turning planes but IMO your OP changes nothing..

Yes, many know how contrails are formed and that they can be persistent etc etc,
but that's not to say chemtrails don't share the sky..

I'll just occasionally glance at threads to see if a definitive answer is found..
Meanwhile, If people are stupid enough to give money to crackpots and that bothers you so much,then maybe you should look into religions,charities and politics where the most is donated by fools.


Now THAT would be worth debunking...



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 05:34 AM
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Originally posted by SirCoxone



Once again, I am not here to upset people, cause offence or abuse. I am not a secret government agent paid to spread disinformation, I simply want to stop people being scared of normal weather behaviour and stop the con artists who are praying on peoples fears to make money.


If you want to stop the con artists who prey on people's fear - fight the government instead.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 05:41 AM
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Have you seen the recent news on the Bilderberg Group?

Just a few short years ago people were ridiculed for believing in such a group which 'didn't exist'. The people who believed in them were ridiculed and labelled 'conspiracy nuts'.

Now it's not only widely acknowledged that they exist, but in Switzerland high ranking politicians are openly challenging their right to meet in secrecy and demanding the arrest of the war criminals who are attending the meeting.

If you don't believe in chemtrails, it's fine to have that opinion.

What's not fine is to attempt to force others into having the same opinion as yourself.

I'm not saying that is what you do - but there are many here who do just that.

It's impossible for people who don't share your opinion to have a discussion about it on ATS because of a group of trolls who use obvious and well known tactics to squash everyone who doesn't share their opinion.

And it is only an OPINION.

Whether or not I support chemtrails is not really the issue, the issue is the freedom to discuss whatever subject I choose, within the terms of ATS, without being constantly insulted, ridiculed and subjected to troll tactics.

Some people are simply determined to squash this topic as soon as it arises. Their motives are not altruistic at all, quite the contrary, as is obvious from the way they seek to humiliate others. They are simply trolls and internet bullies.


edit on 15-6-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 05:41 AM
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Originally posted by SirCoxone
OK, as I have been accused of being some kind of goverment agent of disinformation on many an occassion I thought I would clear up my motives for posting on these forums.

[color=AFC7C7]Dis-Info is a term that is used by those who have no factual irrefutable evidence to substantiate and support their claims. Due to this, Chemtrails is obviously going to be one of the topics where this term is frequently used.

[color=AFC7C7]In other words, don't let it get to you, because when someone calls you a 'Dis-Info Agent,' they are basically just saying this↓↓↓

[color=EDDA74]"Ok fine, you win. You're right, and I'm wrong, because I have no idea what I am talking about. I was just repeating what I had heard others say."



edit on 6/15/11 by BrokenCircles because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 05:45 AM
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reply to post by BrokenCircles
 


Kind of a one sided simplistic view don't you think??

I mean, what did the OP really prove other than the fact that contrails exist??



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 06:01 AM
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Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by SirCoxone



Once again, I am not here to upset people, cause offence or abuse. I am not a secret government agent paid to spread disinformation, I simply want to stop people being scared of normal weather behaviour and stop the con artists who are praying on peoples fears to make money.


If you want to stop the con artists who prey on people's fear - fight the government instead.


Why does it have to be one or the other?



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 06:04 AM
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Originally posted by wcitizen
Have you seen the recent news on the Bilderberg Group?

Just a few short years ago people were ridiculed for believing in such a group which 'didn't exist'. The people who believed in them were ridiculed and labelled 'conspiracy nuts'.

Now it's not only widely acknowledged that they exist, but in Switzerland high ranking politicians are openly challenging their right to meet in secrecy and demanding the arrest of the war criminals who are attending the meeting.

If you don't believe in chemtrails, it's fine to have that opinion.

What's not fine is to attempt to force others into having the same opinion as yourself.

I'm not saying that is what you do - but there are many here who do just that.

It's impossible for people who don't share your opinion to have a discussion about it on ATS because of a group of trolls who use obvious and well known tactics to squash everyone who doesn't share their opinion.

And it is only an OPINION.

Whether or not I support chemtrails is not really the issue, the issue is the freedom to discuss whatever subject I choose, within the terms of ATS, without being constantly insulted, ridiculed and subjected to troll tactics.

Some people are simply determined to squash this topic as soon as it arises. Their motives are not altruistic at all, quite the contrary, as is obvious from the way they seek to humiliate others. They are simply trolls and internet bullies.


edit on 15-6-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)



Surely this is a discussion forum and as such it is for discussion. You of course have the right not to be insulted or abused, as doI for my opinion, but this is an open forum for all to air their opinion, not a private club just for people who agree with each other.

If you write something then people who feel you are wrong have the right to say they disagree and explain why in a polite and reasonable manner.
edit on 15-6-2011 by SirCoxone because: spelling.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 06:07 AM
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Originally posted by SirCoxone



Surely this is a discussion forum and as such it is for discussion. You of course have the right not to be insulted or abused, as doI for my opinion, but this is an open forum for all to air their opinion, not a private club just for people who agree with each other.

If you write something then people who feel you are wrong have the right to day they disagree and explain why in a polite and reasonable manner.


Did you actually read what I said? My whole point is that I want discussion to be able to take place and that includes people who believe in chemtrails having the opportunity to discuss this as well..

Please read my post again, it's very clear what I'm saying. Now, the question is, why are you trying to twist it and make it sound as though I've said I don't support discussion?

Trolls have only one intention - to suppress discussion. So - if you're defending trolls, please present your argument.




edit on 15-6-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-6-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 06:10 AM
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reply to post by SirCoxone
 



If you write something then people who feel you are wrong have the right to say they disagree and explain why in a polite and reasonable manner.


Keep that in mind when you read posts from BOTH sides...



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 06:11 AM
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Originally posted by SirCoxone

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by SirCoxone



Once again, I am not here to upset people, cause offence or abuse. I am not a secret government agent paid to spread disinformation, I simply want to stop people being scared of normal weather behaviour and stop the con artists who are praying on peoples fears to make money.


If you want to stop the con artists who prey on people's fear - fight the government instead.


Why does it have to be one or the other?


Because it has been proven time and time again that they are con artists, whereas those who don't believe in chemtrails are simply supporting an unproven hypothesis.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by SirCoxone
 



If you write something then people who feel you are wrong have the right to say they disagree and explain why in a polite and reasonable manner.


Keep that in mind when you read posts from BOTH sides...



That deserves 50 starts if I could give them to you.




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