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Wisconsin Supreme Court Upholds Wisconsin Union Busting Law

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posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


I agree they need to be reformed. As do most of our corrupt systems. This also goes for corporations. In the case of Boeing their agreement with the unions would prevent them from doing what they are doing. It was their choice to engage in this agreement. Why are we protecting corporations from their own obligations. A contract is a contract is a contract. If they entered it under their own free will they must abide by it as do the unions employed by Boeing. If said union tried to break contract to go work for another company that is willing to bend to them more we would all be calling foul there too. Double standards are fail.
edit on 15-6-2011 by LexiconRiot because: for substance.



SM2

posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by LexiconRiot
 


well except that in those states, the unions strong arm tactics include protesting businesses that will not unionize. Right down to violence and destruction of property. I am in no way saying the big corporations are any better, however the unions are just as greedy and corrupt. Unions are just one huge money making scam, why do you think the mafia was involved so heavily? To help the little guy? To top it off the unions are exempt from the hobbs act

"The most egregious example of organized labor’s special privileges and immunities is the 1973 United States v. Enmons decision. In it, the United States Supreme Court held that union violence is exempted from the Hobbs Act, which makes it a federal crime to obstruct interstate commerce by robbery or extortion. As a result, thousands of incidents of violent assaults (directed mostly against workers) by union militants have gone unpunished. Meanwhile, many states also restrict the authority of law enforcement to enforce laws during strikes."

When was the last time walmart store managers organized a beat down of some of their workers? Have you ever seen Mcdonalds managers throwing bricks through windows ? How about a group of burger king district managers beating up someone in the street for handing out flyers SEIU/St.Louis style?



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by LexiconRiot
reply to post by TDawgRex
 


I agree they need to be reformed. As do most of our corrupt systems. This also goes for corporations. In the case of Boeing their agreement with the unions would prevent them from doing what they are doing. It was their choice to engage in this agreement. Why are we protecting corporations from their own obligations. A contract is a contract is a contract. If they entered it under their own free will they must abide by it as do the unions employed by Boeing. If said union tried to break contract to go work for another company that is willing to bend to them more we would all be calling foul there too. Double standards are fail.
edit on 15-6-2011 by LexiconRiot because: for substance.


I don't see how opening another plant, in another state would be breaking contract. But it may and I would be livid if my lawyers that I retain tied my hands like that. My nephew works at the Boeing plant and I've been told that many are ok with the opening of another plant, But the Union Heads are not.

One the big picture front, I can see why they are doing this. If the economy continues this spiral, Boeing could eventually close up shop in Seattle, while keeping the SC plant open. but the more resources you have, the easier it is to gain contracts and maintain them. Boeing is a competative corperation that does well by it's employees, union and non-union alike.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


I agree that Boeing has been very good to its employees over the years. I always doubt people in positions of power. It takes a certain kind of person to want to make decisions for large groups. This goes for unions, corporations and politicians. However Union members are not to blame. They simply want to live with a certain standard of life.

As far as violence goes Union vs. Corporatism has always breed bloody conflicts. Not saying it is ok or right in any fashion. The battle of Blair Mountain in WV was one of the worst in American history. The issue is our government serves two masters. One by promise and the other by deeds. The people only got the promise...



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by SM2
reply to post by LexiconRiot
 

When was the last time walmart store managers organized a beat down of some of their workers? Have you ever seen Mcdonalds managers throwing bricks through windows ? How about a group of burger king district managers beating up someone in the street for handing out flyers SEIU/St.Louis style?


When was the last time those people were paid a fair wage? Minimum wage is not fair its impoverished. Unions fight for themselves, while I don't agree with violence I do appreciate that they DEMAND fair wages and use the system to rectify corporate greed. Its sad that it is often underscored by Union Leadership greed.


SM2

posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 08:23 PM
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well it is a vicious cycle, the unions demand a "fair wage" i wont agree $30+ for sweeping a floor is fair. Then the business needs to raise the cost of goods or services to keep the profit margin where they deem it needs to be. which again lowers the workers purchasing power. A fair wage is objective. I would say minimum wage is fair to bag groceries. If you need to make more money, find a different line of work. How much money annually do you think a cashier at wal mart should make? minimum wage is fair. if you do not feel like it is a fair wage, go find another business to work for.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by SM2
 


Yes because if you are untrained and uneducated (as some career cashiers are) you obviously can just go out and get a better paying job when in this economy. You know the one in which no one is hiring (except MacDonald's who received 1 million applications for 50k jobs) and people with a college education (like myself, although I am disabled) can't get hired for jobs we are qualified for. Magically there is some employer out there that says "Wow you were a cashier at Wal-Mart! You can totally manage this sale project with a 500k account." I want to live in your world. I bet there you can eat rainbows and every woman around wants to sleep with you. Back in reality we all suffer. With a $7.25 federal min. wage everyone who makes that amount (hey at least they have jobs) qualify for every kind of welfare. They are just lazy right? An estimated 47 million people must just love not being able to afford anything and living off the state to be treated like # by anyone else who is "middle class". I am sure it is such a cushy life for unemployed because entitlements help them live like kings right? I don't get this if they are poor put them on the streets mentality... It makes me sick and sad I gave the best years of my life defending a country who cares not for each other and cares not for the welfare of our country. It must be easy to sit back and be an armchair politician hating Obama and thinking you have all the answers.


SM2

posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by LexiconRiot
reply to post by SM2
 


Yes because if you are untrained and uneducated (as some career cashiers are) you obviously can just go out and get a better paying job when in this economy. You know the one in which no one is hiring (except MacDonald's who received 1 million applications for 50k jobs) and people with a college education (like myself, although I am disabled) can't get hired for jobs we are qualified for. Magically there is some employer out there that says "Wow you were a cashier at Wal-Mart! You can totally manage this sale project with a 500k account." I want to live in your world. I bet there you can eat rainbows and every woman around wants to sleep with you. Back in reality we all suffer. With a $7.25 federal min. wage everyone who makes that amount (hey at least they have jobs) qualify for every kind of welfare. They are just lazy right? An estimated 47 million people must just love not being able to afford anything and living off the state to be treated like # by anyone else who is "middle class". I am sure it is such a cushy life for unemployed because entitlements help them live like kings right? I don't get this if they are poor put them on the streets mentality... It makes me sick and sad I gave the best years of my life defending a country who cares not for each other and cares not for the welfare of our country. It must be easy to sit back and be an armchair politician hating Obama and thinking you have all the answers.


Well, let dissect this attack a little. First off, not everyone making minimum wage is eligible for welfare. Alot of those people are either teenagers, partially disabled making a supplemental wage to thier disability, retired, in school, working a second job.Those individuals do not qualify for welfare on the minimum wage statement. No, I do not think people on welfare are lazy as a whole. I do think that some of those receiving it need to make better life choices, i.e, driving a brand new mercedes, living in the ghetto, having 12 kids and suckling the teet of the government is pretty sad and lazy. I do not have a throw th poor to the streets mentality at all. Everyone needs a hand up sometimes, and i am more than willing to lend a hand. You must realize that I am not one of these rich people. I am unemployed, taking care of 2 disabled parents whose social secruity benefits do not even coer their living expenses and they are not eligble for medicare yet. Luckily my wife has a decent job. My family has been on welfare at one point, and we clawed and fought our way out of that trap. if we can do it, anyone can, if they put the effort to it. I am sick of this entitlement mentality. These people are generally, not always, but generally only victims of their own choices. how about a little personal responsibility. Bottom line paying someone $7.25 an hour to ask me if plastic is ok, is a fair wage for that job.

Let me ask you this. Lets suppose you owned a grocery store. What would you pay the bag boy? What do you think is a fair wage for that job?

Let's put this into a scenario, you have 3 baggers, they each make $7.25 an hour. You must maintain 4% profit margin to remain in business. Just so you know, 4% is ALOT more then alot of these "evil corporations" maintain. The insurance industry is lucky to get 1% profit margin for example. Now, you have a choice, give them a raise and either raise the prices of goods and lose customers due to the price hike, or take a hit on your profit margin which means you can no longer expand your business and will eventually close the doors.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by SM2
Let's put this into a scenario, you have 3 baggers, they each make $7.25 an hour. You must maintain 4% profit margin to remain in business. Just so you know, 4% is ALOT more then alot of these "evil corporations" maintain. The insurance industry is lucky to get 1% profit margin for example. Now, you have a choice, give them a raise and either raise the prices of goods and lose customers due to the price hike, or take a hit on your profit margin which means you can no longer expand your business and will eventually close the doors.


be realistic at this point if my company is doing so poorly I cant afford to pay a bagger $7.50 Wal-Mart has already put me out of business. Oligarchy's make no room for small business competition.

Hypotheticals don't really work in this case, as I have no experience running a business myself. I was a career soldier. People always use this "Bentley in the ghetto" idea. Let me explain something to you; those people are drug dealers. Sure they may also collect welfare but this is not common and those peoples life expectancy is often very short. People make poor decisions and should be accountable for them however far too often its this bad choice or that bad choice. Inner city kids often have trouble getting into good colleges because of poor school testing scores. They are also plagued with horrible teachers who stopped caring.


SM2

posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:30 PM
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however, we have hi jacked this thread a little, the issue being discussed was public unions. i still maintain that public employee unions should not exist, as a public employee is a public servant. We pay their wage and they serve us. The public unions are a portion of the issues with the inefficiency of government services. They cause wasteful spending. What would you rather do spend $4 million on raises for teachers that can not even get their students to the minimum standards, give $10 million in raises to cops that violate our rights or take that $14 million and spend on something useful like paying to the debt, helping out some needy folks ?


SM2

posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by LexiconRiot

Originally posted by SM2
Let's put this into a scenario, you have 3 baggers, they each make $7.25 an hour. You must maintain 4% profit margin to remain in business. Just so you know, 4% is ALOT more then alot of these "evil corporations" maintain. The insurance industry is lucky to get 1% profit margin for example. Now, you have a choice, give them a raise and either raise the prices of goods and lose customers due to the price hike, or take a hit on your profit margin which means you can no longer expand your business and will eventually close the doors.


be realistic at this point if my company is doing so poorly I cant afford to pay a bagger $7.50 Wal-Mart has already put me out of business. Oligarchy's make no room for small business competition.

Hypotheticals don't really work in this case, as I have no experience running a business myself. I was a career soldier. People always use this "Bentley in the ghetto" idea. Let me explain something to you; those people are drug dealers. Sure they may also collect welfare but this is not common and those peoples life expectancy is often very short. People make poor decisions and should be accountable for them however far too often its this bad choice or that bad choice. Inner city kids often have trouble getting into good colleges because of poor school testing scores. They are also plagued with horrible teachers who stopped caring.



I call shennigans on this. the city I live in has a large population of welfare recipients. There is no way we have that many drug dealers living in this town. i have seen it with my own eyes. A single mother of 5, living in the projects, working at mcdonalds, paying for food with food stamps loading the groceries into a new mercedes benz. It is a very common thing in this part of the country. The mind set here is we owe them that money, its free money, why go get a better job when they can live in an apartment for next to nothing, collect food stamps and live care free. Its a lifestyle choice is what it is. Mind you I am not saying all people in that position are the same, there are some honest hard working people that want to do better but can not get ahead, and I feel for them.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by SM2
 


Heh that sir is a can of worms. I am glad we could keep this civil you have my respect. Even whilst we disagree we can have a logical debate (even when we are heated). I will say I didn't mean to seem like I was attacking you. My apologies.

Back on topic I disagree that teachers should be punished or attacked. I am a big proponent of proper education. Though I am always fro helping my fellow man. Either way as long as that money isnt going into a politicians pocket.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:41 PM
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reply to post by SM2
 


I grew up in Montbello in Denver and on Capital Hill in Denver. My mother managed the Wendy's on E. Colfax for those of us who know Denver well. I lived in the ghetto myself and unless things have changed since I was a young boy drug dealers are far more common than most think. I also don't think that many on welfare can afford a Benz with that income. Again something could of changed I guess.


SM2

posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:56 PM
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you have my respect as well. A logical debate is good for the mind, even a heated one


A little background on me, so you know where i am coming from. Orginally from Ashtabula Oh. When my grnadmother passed away, my gradfather asked us to move in with him, as he had a large house and it was empty. He later got shafted by the steel workers union when they sold out their members to get a large sum of money when a plant closed, when he passed away several years ago they still owed him $25,000. We then moved to Ga. in the southwest corner of the state. My family has had it rough since we moved here. On several occasions my parents had to swallow their pride and ask for some help, always short term welfare, they never wanted to make it a lifestyle. We lived in some places so bad, the ghetto would have been an upgrade. As I got older, i began playing in bands, and eventually became a professional tattoo artist. so believe me, I know how common drug dealers are, at one time in my life, I had a few on speed dial. And yes, they can buy a new Benz on a welfare income. They live in GAFA approved apartments, which will usually cost around $50 a month, the utility companies give them a lower rate, then they collect food stamps, most of which they will usually sell for cash to other hoodrats. Then they lease a brand new expensive car. They can afford it, its costing them 150 bucks a month to live, so the rest of the money goes to the new expensive car, or the $15000 tires and wheels on the 1984 cutlas from the local "rent-a-wheel" store (yes they exist) Then they go to the local church food pantries and get free food from them as well, because they sold all their foodstamps. All the while having 8 kids from 8 different fathers and 24 potential fathers that do not pay child support. So the welfare office increases their benefit. I know how the game works, I have known people that play it.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by SM2
 


Some people are just sick and abusive. I still stand by that because of the wickedness of some all should pay. Being poor isnt a lifestyle choice for most. It is however, insanely difficult to claw your way out of poverty. But alas it seems we both know it all too well my friend.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by LexiconRiot

Originally posted by SM2
reply to post by LexiconRiot
 

When was the last time walmart store managers organized a beat down of some of their workers? Have you ever seen Mcdonalds managers throwing bricks through windows ? How about a group of burger king district managers beating up someone in the street for handing out flyers SEIU/St.Louis style?


Reputable links - or just "reading between the lines again?


When was the last time those people were paid a fair wage? Minimum wage is not fair its impoverished. Unions fight for themselves, while I don't agree with violence I do appreciate that they DEMAND fair wages and use the system to rectify corporate greed. Its sad that it is often underscored by Union Leadership greed.


A fair wage?

How fair is the "wage" they will get on the government dole - paid for by our tax dollars - when their jobs are also shipped overseas?




posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by LexiconRiot
reply to post by SM2
 


I still stand by that because of the wickedness of some all should pay.


Perfect socialist/communist quote.


That's right, punish everyone for a few bad apples.



SM2

posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by LexiconRiot

Originally posted by SM2
reply to post by LexiconRiot
 

When was the last time walmart store managers organized a beat down of some of their workers? Have you ever seen Mcdonalds managers throwing bricks through windows ? How about a group of burger king district managers beating up someone in the street for handing out flyers SEIU/St.Louis style?


Reputable links - or just "reading between the lines again?


When was the last time those people were paid a fair wage? Minimum wage is not fair its impoverished. Unions fight for themselves, while I don't agree with violence I do appreciate that they DEMAND fair wages and use the system to rectify corporate greed. Its sad that it is often underscored by Union Leadership greed.


A fair wage?

How fair is the "wage" they will get on the government dole - paid for by our tax dollars - when their jobs are also shipped overseas?



here is an assortment of link for union violence

www.weeklystandard.com...
theunionlabelblog.com...
thenewamerican.com...

and some on fraud, embezzlement etc
www.unionfacts.com...#



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:18 AM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 
yes i do, it is just a matter of time when other states say there unions are no longer needed teacher unions, and other unions like garbage, street cleaner, police,and i bet we all agree they are not needed look at the mess in NY when it snows, or when the garbage man needs a pay raise, ever hear of the blue flu???



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:53 AM
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Originally posted by LexiconRiot
reply to post by SM2
 


Some people are just sick and abusive. I still stand by that because of the wickedness of some all should pay. Being poor isnt a lifestyle choice for most. It is however, insanely difficult to claw your way out of poverty. But alas it seems we both know it all too well my friend.


Please excuse my typo I feel its is wrong when all must pay due to the wickedness of few. Though this equates to me saying that I don't think welfare should be abolished because few abuse it. So in centurions eyes it would be the same thing I guess.




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