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How likely is it that UFO's are indeed just secret military aircraft.

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posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by Lost_Mind
 

Well said.


I think my percentages would be substantially lower though. And I think Gazrok is right about it going deep into our history. There's enough there to merit making a few assumptions.



Quite possible that they use the UFO/Aliens fever as a cover for some public displays of high tech. They could even give peeps a glimpse of this shiny stuff to gauge our reactions to it.





posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by Orkojoker
 


I would say some are, i would honestly say that any UFO that has been seen that resembles a triangle could most likley be a 30 year more advanced type of stealth aircraft, that is based off of some of the same tech as a B2 or F111. There is also some that do not leave a design trail to trace there origin, these could very well be ETs



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 09:28 PM
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I am not of the opinion that our governments would fly top secret test aircraft over civilian airspace where they might malfunction and crash. Especially when I read reports of very large UFOs such was the case with the 1997 Phoenix Lights incident where reports of a two-mile wide UFO were made.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:47 PM
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Originally posted by Darkmask
reply to post by EmVeeFF
 
So what leads you to say they were government??

Was there indications in its appearance that they were military? I'm just curious.

Here's one I suspect was military:




Why do I suspect it's military? Because the description is so much like this aviation author Bill Scott says is a secret military craft:

History Channel UFO Hunters 206 Arizona Lights 2008-4.avi


Am I sure it's military? No, but I think it's the most likely explanation. And it's definitely a UFO.

That said, I think less than 1/3 of UFOs are secret military craft.

Many are probably just a case of mistaken identity, for example:




posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by Frith
 


Once again, UFO makes a great cover story, the goverment would never do that



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:59 PM
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Some are. The ones that hang around over schools for example, and nothing shows up, most likely are. But the ones we've chased by black choppers, and then another time when I communicated online that I had inhouse monitoring two evenings pairs of scout planes flew around out back joined by a TR3B, black triangle, black op job, which hovered to monitor in the night behind trees and freaked my son out. Those crafts arent black op jobs.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 12:01 AM
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It is a possibility. Although I'd have to admit, if all these UFO/alien spacecraft sightings were just government aircrafts, I'd be kinda....bummed. Lol! Sorta like someone telling you how the movie ends before you get a chance to see it and it ruins it for you. I like thinking we are not alone in space. This doesn't mean I run with every story of sightings and believe they are all true.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 12:19 AM
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most of them are, for reasons already posted on this thread. but you'd have a hard time convincing me that the video posted on page 1 of this thread is real, even if you'd point a gun to my head you still won't convince me. 'coz when a documentary starts spreading deliberate falsehoods, i immediately start looking for their agenda and wondering why they'd do such a thing, or something along those lines.

Link 1
Link 2



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 07:14 AM
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I believe the government tries and thrives off of the imagination of the public. It is much easier to sit back and look at what is being tested and if someone in the public sees it then the good old UFO story will cover up the project.

The thing is that the government is so stupid with what they release as an explanation that we know they are lying.

The big question is all this UFO flying saucer stuff started to come around right after world war 2. As we know the Nazi's were working on stealth Horten 2-29, they also were working on flying disc shape craft. At the end of the war the USA and Soviet Union got the scientist that worked on Nazi top secrete projects. USA got the scientist that worked on the real weird stuff like the saucers and bell.

Ever since the military has been trying to perfect these idea's. Look at all the UFO pics back when they look like they are 1950 models because they are. The Horten 2-29 became the B-2 and it took years, decades of technical progress to get to that point because the B-2 flight is stabilized by sophisticated computers. The paint is something that absorbs radar. The heat exhaust from the jet engines are dampened. Took years for all this to come together all from the idea of the Horten 2-29. And The Kenneth Arnold sighting was probably the first model of these type of tail wingless craft.

Just like the good old ufo's back in the day were always photographed in a slight tilt?! It's because we didn't have the technology to stabilize the damn things! Just like the crappy test craft that crashed in Rosewell. It is much easier to make up a story then to give out test secrets. But the huge mistake in Rosewell was the government said it was a Alien UFO thinking it was much safer to hide behind that story but what that did was start what we have now. UFOlogy. It would have been much easier to say the crash was from a top secrete test craft and we can not go into it because it's top secrete but as you know we got a lot of work to do because it can't fly.

So the real question should be why did the nazi's want a craft that looked like a disk?
Did they believe that the curve shape would give stealth? or better flying capability?

Are there real UFO's, maybe? But only the cases that have military involved peak my interest like the Belgium wave, and the Iran case.

Look for the new models of UFO's They will become smaller, unmanned, solar and cloaked. Because that is where our technology is advancing.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 07:17 AM
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Not very likely they are Military craft, they have been around too long!



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 08:20 AM
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I was thinking about this topic only yesterday. Honestly, no one can answer this, unless you are in the "know" The really big question starts in 1947 Roswell, what happened? I thought for a long time that it had to be aliens, but no longer. I believe nearly all sightings are man made. The reasons i think they are man made is as follows...if you or your government discovered a new type of propullsion/energy source, would you reveal your hand, especially during the cold war, if i was in the position to make the final call, i would say, keep it secret, create a smoke screen? We have an economy built on carbon. Many many people rely on this for their living, coal fired power stations, gas, automobiles, parts for autos and the businesses that support it, right down to the guy drving a truck delivering goods that you buy, the list is endless- it would be a massive shift to move away from this, not something that would happen over night. You also have the problem of vested interests, money, power etc. what ever you think about this, it is a reality. Murphys law..."who ever holds the gold makes the rules." The balance of power in the world is delicatley balanced, how would other nations react if suddenly the US revealed it had anti gravity, craft that could move at 14,000mph, would that scare the opposition? i think so, so they keep quiet..keep the status quo. It is very feasible that we developed this ourselves. I have given up on discloure, i have waited over twenty years and still nothing. Before i am shot down in flames i think that it is possile that a small percentage of sightings could be from another world but in this modern era it is too easy to fake footage. Look back into sightings, photos from the past and they are laugable, i am sure people believed them real during that time.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by TheMur
 


Today, in the year 2011 that statement could hold some validation.

But we are talking a phenomina that spans thousands of years.

I strongly suggest if you read any book at all to read Jim Marrs's "Alien Agenda".

The book begins with and talks about mindset and you are currently and deeply, in my humble opinion, trying to pass this most important topic off and bury it in denial.

"They" are here.

"They" have been here with us since before Roswell.

Our government knows it, yet denies their existence, the question should be why?

A thread like yours is in one way trying to sound factual and reality base and yet throws many people off.

"The Alien Agenda" deals with mindset rather than proof because there is more than enough proof out there for anyone that has truly done their research.

And by research I am not talking about reading five or ten books, studied two or three years or talked to five or ten people.

I am talking about twenty (or more) years of painstaking research, read 1,000 (or more books) and spoken with thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of people.

I can only come to the table with my own experience.

Back in around 1964-65 we were star gazing out on our farm. We did that often in the summer, spreading a blanket down and us kids and X my brother in law who worked at McDonald Douglas for many years as a low level manager.

X knew his planes and jets, he was fasinated with them.

X was also a very factual based man, a no nonsense, hard driven SOB who himself always told me, "believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see."

X did not believe in ghosts, esp, witchcraft or "little green men from Mars".........he laughed at the previous before mentioned "hooey".

Until one hot summer evening.

Back then, because we were far enough away from urban light pollution you could see all kinds of, millions of stars, red ones, green ones, yellow ones, white ones, tiny little stars, millions and millions of them.

One in particular, it was white and not much bigger than the period at the end this sentence. It began like any other star just hanging there, but than it began to move and move it did from one end of our vision to the other from left to right within a split second. If you had blinked you would have missed it. But, that wasn't to be the end of our "show" this thing, this whatever it was, was very very far up - outside our atmosphere manuvering in outer space, dancing, zig zagging, shooting from one end to the other left to right, back again from right to left, up, around, crossing from one entire section to the other all with incredible speed and manuvering backwards, forwards and turning on a dime (or better).

I wasn't impressed, I was about 11 and my mother had died two years ago of lung cancer, leaving me to live with my much older sister and her husband on this farm out in rural Missouri.

What impressed me was this stolic, very macho, very reality based man, sat up from his lying down position on our blanket and said, "What the hell"........he was not one to curse or get excited, always in control, always cool, calm and laughed off anyone that wasn't.

He said, "Are you seeing this thing?"

I said, "Wow, it's fast and look at it go. It's probaby a satellite."

He said, "Satellites don't manuver like that and they don't go that fast".

I said, "Well it's got to be some American Military thing".

He said, "We don't have anything remotely that fast or manuverable"

I said, "Well than it's got to be Russian probably"

X now and I will never forget his expression as the thing manuvered for maybe five minutes and we all sat tranfixed, and than it blinked out of existence...............I will never forget ever seeing X's face look this concerned. X never showed concern or fear until this night.

He said, "The Russians don't have anything like this either, this thing isn't from here, here on Earth".

X gathered us up and the blanket and marched us quickly into the house.

He proceeded to turn off all the lights, which prompted my sister to come out asking him, "What the heck is going on, why are you turning off all the lights?"

X told her what we saw and said, "Here we are sitting on top of a hill, in the middle of no where with lights on like a beacon. We sat in the dark on the couch for a few minutes, his voice sounded scared and my sister said, "Have you lost your cotton pickin mind? You're nuts."

X replied, "You should have seen that thing, none of us, Americans, Russians, nobody on this planet has anything remotely that fast or that can manuver like this thing did..........we're sitting ducks, keep the lights off. You kids go to bed, keep the lights off."

My sister went into their bedroom and turned on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. I followed my sister in the dark to her room. X also followed and proceeded to make sure the drapes on their one bedroom window were shut and no light from the TV could seep out from the window, grumbling saying, "You kids go to bed now, all of you and no lights, you too (to me) to my sister (who he never commanded, she ruled the household) he said, "Do you have to watch that, it puts out lights and waves".........she replied, "You are nuts, little green men from Mars" and laughed.

Both smoked, but neither had had a drink. While we were getting ready for bed, X went to the frig and got a beer, he was not a heavy drinker, a few beers kind of guy...........I got ready for bed, came out and said "Do you think that thing was not from Earth?" He said, "Shut up and go to bed".

We never spoke about this again and we never went out to star gaze again. X never read any books or magazines except Popular Mechanics. From that night forward, X always made sure that come close to dusk, we were inside and we got a "TV lamp" one of those small just enough light to see your way around the room lamps, a big sea shell from Florida with a little light bulb that sat on the top of the TV.

X always after that night made sure all the drapes were shut.

Again, this man was very very factual based, he was a skeptic until that one hot summer night.

He never spoke about it again but what impressed upon my childhood memory that one night many decades ago was here was a man I never ever saw afraid, he was a real tough SOB.............but that night, the look in his eyes, a knowing look, a look of vulnerability I never saw before or since was what made me take notice.

I've never met a grey, never taken a ride in a craft to Venus or communicated with "space brothers"..........the one experience I had I can't verify. "It' was not much bigger than this period. But, it moved with such incredible speed, went forwards, backwards, up, down, around and from one end of our vision to the other within seconds and than winked out, frightening a man that could not be frightened.

The proof is there, so many people, long before our technology was what it is today have seen these "things" whatever they are.

All cultures across the planet speak of "Gods from the sky".

The "sightings" now number not hundreds or thousands, but millions................many from credible witnesess.

Even our mainstream scientists that normally remain silent because they fear if they rock the established boat of secrecy, their funding, which pay their paychecks will be severed are now speaking up.

Michio Kaku said in one interview that there are 5% unexplained UFO sightings.

Presidents, astronauts, scientists, professors, people in general that are way more educated and credible than the original person that began this thread have "seen them".

Do your research.

Put down the ipod, the video games, the love or vampire novels, the TV remote and simply do some heavy duty research.

"They" are here..............."They" have been here since we began standing upright on two legs.

Possibly there are more than one group.

Their agenda?

Haven't a clue, but I do know and have stated it numerous times here on ATS....................if someone means you well, they are normally forthright, honest and open with you.

If someone means to mess over you they are sneaky, underhanded and dishonest with you.

1957?



Jim Marrs book, "Alien Agenda" does not cover the Alien Agenda as much as mindset.

Why the secrecy?

You tell me.

Seems our technology really took off right after the "Roswell incident".

I only saw a little thingy in the sky, not much bigger than a period in the early 60's................the proof is overwhelming and in my humble opinion, I think something is going on and anyone denying we are being visited is either in denial, very closed minded or has had their brain conditioned and yes that is another whole thread, start researching ELF Waves and mind control.

Being curious, I've been studying the UFO phenomena for about 20+ years, have read upwards of probably 500 books and another 100 reports and articles.

We have had reports of "gods with their chariots of fire" reported for thousands of years.

What makes this a complicated issue is that we may be dealing with not one or two or even three different groups but dozens (or more).

We may not be dealing with just visitors from another star system, but maybe different planets from other star systems, multiverses, different dimensions, different timelines, parellel worlds, who knows?


We may be dealing with one, some or all of the above.

Take also into consideration, start researching how many people have had "fatal accidents/suicides" that have came too close to this area of study with valid information.

The proof is out there, more than enough to show that something is going on and has been going on since recorded history (This time around).

A closed mind and arrogant heart gathers no knowledge.

In answer to your question, yes probably some UFO's are military aircraft (now start researching about reverse tech and see what you come up with).

But, there are still way too many unanswered questions, our governments, particularly the US has been far too adamant about their non existence for something unknown to the general public not to exist.

And, finally, when you begin to have mainstream scientists, ex presidents, retired generals and astronauts risks thier reputation, pensions, associates, etc saying they are here and have been here..............something is up.

Will we ever have disclosure?

My own conclusion from over 20+ years of research says to read, Dr. David Jacob's book, "The Threat".

No, we, like many civilizations and planets before us fell prey to a predator that was so far advance and our governments when approached sold us out for power and greed.

We will be possibly assimilated unbeknownst to us in a covert conquest.

Our "leaders" were approached and made our decision for us...............everyone has their price. It is rare the man (or woman) that would not sell out for something and it is my suspicion that we as a species have been sold out.

Fantasy, delusional, crazy................for our sake I sure hope so.

But I don't think so.

And I don't think we are going to be rescued.................we are responsible for both allowing ourselves to keep being manipulated into hate and warring with each other as well as mismanagement of our beautiful planet.

I have seen within the last thirty years this subject go from complete ridicule and science fiction, laughed at and joked about to now one of becoming seriously discussed, that alone says a lot.

Again, you must ask yourself, hmmmmmmmmm ever since Roswell, it seems we sure did develope technologies rather quickly and with each year that ability seems to speed up.

Now, again I say, start researching "reverse tech" where in one takes something that accidently falls into their lap (or desert ranch), takes "it" apart and sees what makes it tick and work.

Not saying that probably most crafts we see are high tech, but it is my premise that no, we are not alone, and have never been alone.

You will notice I use possible and possibility many times throughout my responses. That is because in my 20's and 30's I thought I knew what was what pretty much.

In my 40's I realized that some of my concrete core beliefs and what society has spoon fed me since birth COULD BE either misinformation or deceit.

In my 40's and now approaching my sixth decade of life on this third rock from a medium size star, I realize I don't know the half of it, none of us do.

More importantly, as a species, I think we had better concentrate on getting rid of "leaders" that are corrupt and hell bent on destroying us. We better get our act together and start cleaning up this planet we have been so lucky to be born on. We have better start really figuring out our value system, money, power and service to self or sharing, caring and service to others.

If we keep choosing money, power and service to self over the latter, we may find ourselves an extinct species.

We also need to not be asking if UFO's (the et ones) are real, that is side tracking and distracting us.

We should be asking, why are they here, the ones that aren't ours and what do they want?

Mankind does not learn, he/she keeps allowing ourselves to be dumbed down, distracted and divided and encouraged to go about their daily lives remaining in their comfort zone of denial.

Again, not having a senior moment. But I would really suggest to the person that began this thread and all those that agree all the UFO's are ours to seriously buy a cheap, second hand copy of "Alien Agenda" by Jim Marrs.

He does not try to prove they are here as much as discuss the mindset that surrounds this issue.


edit on 15-6-2011 by ofhumandescent because: grammar



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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Very few, imo.

Why would they test top secret aircraft over cities? Answer: They wouldn't. There is a reason they test these things over deserts, in controlled airspace. They would not test craft with odd or few lights over public airspace. They would not risk the public identifying secret aircraft. There is nothing to gain by doing that, but plenty to lose.

Also consider that many sightings are over less developed countries - some that we are not friendly with. We certainly wouldn't test aircraft out over enemy soil - or even allies soil. One mistake, and you hand over your cutting edge technology to a foreign nation.

People also give far too much credit for our technology. I don't think we can do many of the maneuvars witnessed. For example: Terhan 1976 ufo incident - imo, there is no way that was a human created craft.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 10:03 AM
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Redacted
edit on 6/15/2011 by Klassified because: Screwed it up.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by JohnLennon
 


Short sweet and to the point.



Many people cannot handle the truth that we may not be alone and denial is so much easier to swallow than that red pill.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 10:11 AM
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The only reason i would disagree with that is because i have actually seen a full blown UFO spaceship about 100ft from me hovering on top of a house next to a tree. It was in Los Angeles and i was definitely NOT asleep. What has bothered me all these years is why did i see it and did anyone else see it as well? I dont think anyone did because it would have made the news but it was there and i remember it clear as day (it was at night though). Sometimes i do wonder if only Americans are getting abducted. You dont really hear about it from other countries, say China or India. We seem to only be getting reports here, so maybe perhaps it is a US govt thing. Please correct me if i am mistaken!



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by ofhumandescent
 


Lets try this again.

I saw something very similar to what you described not so very long ago. Aliens didn't even cross my mind as I watched it.



He said, "We don't have anything remotely that fast or manuverable"


I have heard this and similar statements repeatedly in stories and from individuals. How do we know what TPTB have? We don't. Just because someone works at McDonnell Douglas, or even Area 51, doesn't mean they are privy to all flight technologies. So it could still be nothing but terrestrial craft. Even historically, it could all be terrestrial. I know, sounds crazy. But it's just as plausible as aliens from my perspective.

Having said that. Could any of it be aliens? Sure. And I'm open to the possibility. But the more I read, the more I study, the more I'm convinced that even historically, what's being witnessed and seen may very well be the biggest conspiracy of all. "They", are here. And always have been. Because "they", may very well be us. At least in the sense that "they" are also from earth. They've just been here a lot longer than we have.


edit on 6/15/2011 by Klassified because: grammar



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by jethro99
I was thinking about this topic only yesterday. Honestly, no one can answer this, unless you are in the "know" The really big question starts in 1947 Roswell, what happened? I thought for a long time that it had to be aliens, but no longer. I believe nearly all sightings are man made.
I'm in the same boat as you once thinking it might have been aliens, then doing some research and finding out it probably wasn't. Here's an interesting article about why the sightings "took off" in 1947, that's when the classified skyhook balloon programs took off:

The Cold War’s Classified Skyhook Program: A Participant’s Revelations

I was busy calibrating instrumentation for top-secret Project Mogul in the spring of 1947. In retrospect, I was totally unaware of the project’s actual identity. My security clearance was for the lower rating of confidential. I was unaware of the project title for another forty-eight years, until 1995.

Welcome to the arcane world of classified Skyhook programs and Cold War intrigue. In this review, I hope to reveal many of those once-classified programs, how they generated UFO mythology, and why that relationship has not been fully addressed.
I'm not sure I agree completely with the author about how many of the sightings were balloons, but I'm sure I can agree some of them were, including the Roswell incident.

I think the UFO that captain Mantell died chasing was 99.99% certainly a balloon, just as one example. In a way, I guess you could even say the balloons were secret military craft. But the secret military craft seen in January 2000 in Illinois wasn't a balloon, though it may have had some balloon like properties such as neutral-buoyancy, as did possibly the large craft seen flying over Phoenix. But they call those "Rigid-hull airships". Heck, Lockheed Martin even has a patent on a Stealth Blimp, so it's hard to argue they couldn't have built some!

Has the world’s best-documented “UFO” phenomenon just been a close encounter of the military kind?

In 1981 the Navy contracted Lockheed Martin to develop a lighter-than-air (LTA) high altitude surveillance platform called HI-SPOT—HI Surveillance Platform for Over-the-horizon Targeting. At around the same time, NASA launched a similar program called HAPP—the High Altitude Powered Platform, which was designed to be a flying radar surveillance station. Feasibility studies for both these programs were conducted by ILC Dover. You can download their Final Report on the Design Definition of the Lighter-Than-Air High Altitude Powered Platform, directly from NASA’s online archives. And you can download the report on Phase II of the study from the Corporation for National Research Initiatives.

Shortly after these documents were issued, the program became classified and Lockheed Martin made no further press releases. However, it’s a matter of public record among those in the industry that Lockheed has always been interested in airships for military purposes, and a telling 1982 diagram of a “stealth blimp” is featured in Popular Mechanics, September 1999, page 64 (with supporting notes on page 119).
Lockheed Martin’s stealth blimp diagram

Popular Mechanics’ stealth blimp diagram.

According to a SPACE.com interview with L Scott Miller, professor of Aerospace Engineering at Wichita State University in Kansas, and a distinguished lecturer of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA),

"Lockheed has shown a great deal of interest in airships for many years. The real question is whether the Department of Defense has committed to buy and use such machines. I do think that a large airship, with a heavy lift and other mission objectives, has been built."
That site has a pretty substantial list of incidents that all seem to fit the profile of such a classified military craft as a "stealth blimp" or "rigid hull airship". Again it doesn't explain all UFOs, but it might explain the sightings on that list.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by Klassified

He said, "We don't have anything remotely that fast or manuverable"


I have heard this and similar statements repeatedly in stories and from individuals. How do we know what TPTB have? We don't.
You're right, we don't know what TPTB have. What we know probably lags what they have by 50 years, or at least several decades.

But I've never seen anyone capture evidence of a claim like "We don't have anything remotely that fast or manuverable" on video, except for one infrared video I saw of what I'm pretty sure was some bats flying overhead. And yes, bats are very maneuverable, even TPTB's secret projects may not have anything as maneuverable as a bat, yet. But if someone's got video evidence of a claim like that that's not birds, bats, or insects, I'd sure like to see it, because the only ones I've seen that aren't flying animals, were CGI.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 

You and me both. Just once I wish someone would capture on video exactly what I, or SO, or ofhumandescent saw. What I saw was like a moving star. But it did things no star, satellite, or common aircraft could ever do. I'd like to see someone do a good CGI of what I saw. At least then, I could say, yeah, thats close to what I saw.




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