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Federal Judge Upholds Same-Sex Marriage Ruling in California

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posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 10:45 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Being legally married is a privilege, and privileges by definition are exclusive not inclusive. You have no right to privilege. You do, however, have a right to marry.



That is what I would like the state to grant me. If I do in fact have a right to marry, there is no reason why I should be denied the right and privilege to marry my same-sex partner.




posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by Garfee

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Being legally married is a privilege, and privileges by definition are exclusive not inclusive. You have no right to privilege. You do, however, have a right to marry.



That is what I would like the state to grant me. If I do in fact have a right to marry, there is no reason why I should be denied the right and privilege to marry my same-sex partner.



The state has no Constitutional authority to grant you any right. They can grant you privileges, but you are going to have to make up your mind, either you want your rights or you want privileges granted from government. It is hopelessly naive, and dare I say blind faith, to believe that demanding government grant you privileges will protect your rights. Again, you have no right to privilege. Your rights are more powerful than privilege. It is tragic you refuse to understand this.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
The state has no Constitutional authority to grant you any right. They can grant you privileges,



The RIGHT is equality - Legal Government marriage is already a fact.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
The state has no Constitutional authority to grant you any right. They can grant you privileges,



The RIGHT is equality - Legal Government marriage is already a fact.



Ignorantia Juris Non Excusat!

Try to understand this; a license is a grant of permission to do something that would otherwise be illegal. If it is a right then it cannot be illegal, and as such requires no licensing schemes.

The RIGHT to equality is irrelevant to licensing schemes. If you want equal rights then rely upon rights. If you want privileges but are denied them, whine all you want, you have no legal RIGHT to demand them.

You've made it perfectly clear how little respect you have for not just your own rights, but the rights of others. There is a reason so many are frustrated with the court system in the U.S. Part of that reason is due to a certain amount of corruption and incompetence, but beyond that, there is a woeful ignorance of the law that leads people - usually led by their priest class lawyer - to the high alter of sacrifice where they foolishly depend upon the Fourteenth Amendment in the naive faith this will gain them privilege. The irony is that, often the privilege a person is seeking is actually a right, but because they are adherents to their faith, they ignore their right and cry for privilege, and once denied whine that the court system is unjust.

It is a sad truism that people get the government they deserve.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Try to understand this; a license is a grant of permission to do something that would otherwise be illegal. If it is a right then it cannot be illegal, and as such requires no licensing schemes.
tem is unjust.



Try to understand this - - a license has nothing to do with doing something illegal. Illegal would require an action.

Again - - - it is completely irrelevant and has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

What is already fact for hetero couples - - Legal Government Marriage - - must also be fact by EQUAL RIGHTS for homosexual couples.

This thread is not about anything else.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
There is a reason so many are frustrated with the court system in the U.S. Part of that reason is due to a certain amount of corruption and incompetence, but beyond that, there is a woeful ignorance of the law that leads people - usually led by their priest class lawyer - to the high alter of sacrifice where they foolishly depend upon the Fourteenth Amendment in the naive faith this will gain them privilege. The irony is that, often the privilege a person is seeking is actually a right, but because they are adherents to their faith, they ignore their right and cry for privilege, and once denied whine that the court system is unjust.

It is a sad truism that people get the government they deserve.



You post is completely irrelevant to the subject of this thread.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul ZodeauxNot just I, but others have explained this to you. In answer to the question of why you "can't" be legally married, it is because you do not have a right to be legally married. Being legally married is a privilege, and privileges by definition are exclusive not inclusive. You have no right to privilege. You do, however, have a right to marry.




No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

The state has no Constitutional authority to grant you any right. They can grant you privileges, but you are going to have to make up your mind, either you want your rights or you want privileges granted from government. It is hopelessly naive, and dare I say blind faith, to believe that demanding government grant you privileges will protect your rights. Again, you have no right to privilege. Your rights are more powerful than privilege. It is tragic you refuse to understand this.



Each sovereign state will have it's own constitution, some don't even have one at all. The argument can not be used in this case except when referring to specific states.

Heterosexuals are granted the right to the privilege of legally marrying the person they love and wish to spend their lives with, all I would like is that extended to my case. The world will not end it this occurs, many countries have adopted such laws and the only thing that has changed is that some people are happier.

I do in fact comprehend your argument that the state has no business in my relationships. The deal is though, they do stick their noses in and this isn't going to change.

What evil do you think will befall your particular state or country when gay marriage is allowed?



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 





Try to understand this - - a license has nothing to do with doing something illegal. Illegal would require an action.



The permission granted by competent authority to exercise a certain privilege that, without such authorization, would constitute an illegal act, a Trespass or a tort. The certificate or the document itself that confers permission to engage in otherwise proscribed conduct.


legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...


License definition: A special permission to do something on, or with, somebody else’s property which, were it not for the license, could be legally prevented or give rise to legal action in tort or trespass.


www.duhaime.org...


1 a : a right or permission granted by a competent authority (as of a government or a business) to engage in some business or occupation, do some act, or engage in some transaction which would be unlawful without such right or permission


research.lawyers.com...

Ignorantial Juris Non Excusat!

An ignoramus declaring something irrelevant is amusing, but hardly informative.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:35 PM
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reply to post by arbitrarygeneraiist
 


I have all ready spoken to the dubious legality and Constitutionality of the Fourteenth Amendment and you know this. Here's the Ninth Amendment for you, sport:


The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


The fool can march into court and cite the 14th Amendment and hope for the whimsy of the judge to rule in their favor, or a free person can march into court and cite the 9th Amendment and expect whimsy to be left outside the courtroom and the rule of law to carry the day.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by Garfee
 


I'm honestly beginning to think that I'm going to have to keep replying to certain people's posts with the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution. I mean, it's all right there plain as day.


The government cannot create a law that abridges privileges. The government technically cannot even create laws that grant privileges in the first place. And everyone also has equal protection to the laws. Marriage is an abridged privilege in which same-sex couples do not have equal protection to the specific laws. That is unconstitutional in more than one way.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:46 PM
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reply to post by Garfee
 





Each sovereign state will have it's own constitution, some don't even have one at all. The argument can not be used in this case except when referring to specific states.


You are mistaken in your assertion that some states do not even have a Constitution. All states within the Union of the United States have Constitutions. Ignorantly claiming they do not does nothing to support your case.

The only reason this is before a federal judge is because residents of the State of California challenged Proposition 8 and relied upon the 14th Amendment, in part, to sue the State for a redress of grievances, seeking remedy in the form of having Proposition 8 struck down. That Proposition 8 was a ballot proposition to create a State Constitutional Amendment defining marriage as being an act between people of the opposite sex, then again, you are in error. The State Constitution is wholly relevant.




Heterosexuals are granted the right to the privilege of legally marrying the person they love and wish to spend their lives with, all I would like is that extended to my case.


Heterosexuals have not been granted any right, and by applying for a marriage license they have surrendered their right in order to empower that state to regulate not just their marriage, but their parenting choices as well.




I do in fact comprehend your argument that the state has no business in my relationships. The deal is though, they do stick their noses in and this isn't going to change. What evil do you think will befall your particular state or country when gay marriage is allowed?


You do not comprehend my argument at all! Otherwise you would not have asked such a foolish question. Here is my argument: Gay marriage is all ready allowed. If you want to get married then go get married. If you have opted out of the licensing schemes, and instead simply married your partner and formed a contract between him, there is no lawful authority that could nullify this. If instead what you want is a little piece of paper sanctioning your marriage, then be honest about it, it is not about the sanctity of marriage that you desire, but instead the lasciviousness of privilege.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:48 PM
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SIMPLICITY

Heterosexual couples have the LEGAL RIGHT to a Government Licensed Marriage - - which affords specific "rights" (privileges - fill in your own word) - - not available by any other means.

Homosexual couples can not be denied the same rights as Heterosexual couples.

The #1 opposition to Homosexuals marrying is religious based.

America is a secular government - - -Rights can not be denied because of religious based belief.

This is about Equal Rights.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by Garfee
 


I'm honestly beginning to think that I'm going to have to keep replying to certain people's posts with the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution. I mean, it's all right there plain as day.


The government cannot create a law that abridges privileges. The government technically cannot even create laws that grant privileges in the first place. And everyone also has equal protection to the laws. Marriage is an abridged privilege in which same-sex couples do not have equal protection to the specific laws. That is unconstitutional in more than one way.


That's probably because you don't read them properly.

I'll take it that you meant your own country's constitution. This issue is about changing the laws to gain equality not arguing why they exist in the first place.
edit on 17-6-2011 by Garfee because: grammar



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


I am not interested in anything you have to say in this thread.

You continue to rant on with your own agenda - - which has nothing to do with the thread subject.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


I know you said that the 14th Amendment was ill-conceived, but I also said there wasn't any merit to a person's opinion. The truths in the Constitution are still self-evident and still trump opinion. So whether or not you believe the 14th Amendment is dubious doesn't somehow detract from its authenticity or its validity.

I'm not debating how a judge can do this or that on a whim, nor am I debating the judge's ability to ignore a person who brings up the 14th Amendment in a court of law. I am debating the fact that going against the Constitution is unconstitutional, and I am also debating the fact that the actions of the government and the judges who oppose gay marriage are unconstitutional.

Also, I really don't understand how the 9th Amendment somehow acts contrary to what I was stating about the 14th Amendment. If you meant for it to contradict what I was saying, could you please elaborate on that?



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:52 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 





This is about Equal Rights.


No it isn't. It is a disingenuous movement to undermine equal rights and the rule of law. This is about privileges, nothing more.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by Garfee
 


I'm probably not reading what properly? Constitutional Amendments or other people's posts?

I'm from the US. This thread is basically about same-sex marriage in California, so the US Constitution is fitting.



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by Annee
 





This is about Equal Rights.


No it isn't. It is a disingenuous movement to undermine equal rights and the rule of law. This is about privileges, nothing more.



You're wrong.

Maybe we can get on with the topic now.
edit on 18-6-2011 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by Garfee
 





Each sovereign state will have it's own constitution, some don't even have one at all. The argument can not be used in this case except when referring to specific states.


You are mistaken in your assertion that some states do not even have a Constitution. All states within the Union of the United States have Constitutions. Ignorantly claiming they do not does nothing to support your case.



SOVEREIGN STATE. One which governs itself independently of any foreign power.

Please click this link to learn what a sovereign state is. Not everyone lives in the USA. I really am at a loss as to what else I can say in the face of such ignorance. Do click the link though, the old saying 'you learn something every day' could not be more true.

Today, I learned that you think the world and it's issues revolve soley around your own country. Imagine my surprise.




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