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Assisted Suicide and abortion

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posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by SirMike
 


going off topic here a bit, but if people are the property of god then why have somanyh people been executed though out history because of religion, every country or culture is guilty of this.
why kill someone because of different beliefs surely if 'your' god is the sole owner of the person he would be the one to execuyte the person or even torture.

religion is the biggest mass murder on the planet.

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i agre with the person who said about families having 14children and not being able to feed them orcar for them just because their religious leaders are against contraception.

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we would be a hell of a lot more advanced medically if it want for religion, just look at the fact you were not allowed to do artopsies until a few hudred years ago and the amount of people dying because of stupid unfounded beliefs about the body




posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by SirMike
 




To decide for someone else what is and isn’t a worthwhile life and to have medical personnel intervene and kill them is barbaric.


Who talks about deciding for them? Of course I meant those who are able to communicate so they can tell us their wish themselves - they are able to tell others they want to die, but are unable to suicide themselves without assistance. For example someone paralyzed from the neck down.

We are talking about voluntary euthanasia. Patient must give informed consent.



A heartbeat .. brainwaves … what else?


Brain waves? Then embryo until 4,5 month is not a person (this is my stance).

Heartbeat? Then embryo until 1,5 month is not a person. But this definition alone is bad because it would make heart transplantations illegal. Brainwaves above is the medical criterion.

Either way, the position that human embryo is a person from the conception is indefensible.



Interesting … read this.


That is indeed interesting, but he is not braindead, but in vegetative state. That is not the same. Patients in vegetative state can have consciousness and brain waves, braindead patients cannot.

Now, the above case is exactly what I mean - what if he asked the outside world to kill him, since he wants to die, but obviously cannot physically kill himself, no matter how he wants it? Should we force him against his will to live life full of suffering for another 50 years? Now that would be cruel and barbarian, thus highly immoral.


edit on 15/6/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 




Science has proven that unborn children feel pain. During medical procedures and surguries, unborn children are given pain killers. Yes .. unborn children have surguries and doctors are required to give them pain killers.

Yet, those unborn children who are killed off - they are subjected to acid baths that burn off their skin and kill them ... subjected to being shredded in the womb ... and no pain killers are administered as they are butchered by their 'loving' parents.


The children are able to feel pain only in the end of third trimester. It is physically impossible for the fetus to feel pain before 5th month of fetal development - there is no sentience (no brain waves) and no thalamocortical connections required to transmit ANY input from the somatosensoric apparatus.

Thus your argument is good, but only against third trimester abortions. My opinion is that abortion should be legal in the first trimester. It is enough for the woman to decide, and enough (even with some buffer) to ensure we never kill sentient being.
edit on 15/6/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by SirMike

Originally posted by seeker11
reply to post by SirMike
 
How nice of you to decide that it's ok to kill animals but not humans.


Yes .. that is quite nice, isn’t it? And tasty too!


If you answered yes to any of those questions, then you are also guilty of making up your own rules, deciding and choosing for other living creatures what is morally acceptable.


Killing an non sentient animal for nourishment is not an immoral act. Killing someone in self defense who seeks to do you or your wards harm is not an immoral act. What colors are the flowers in your world?


How nice of you to decide that animals are non sentient beings simply because they do not speak your language...

This reminds me of Europeans coming over to North America and killing off the natives calling them barbaric, animal like, simply because they were 'different' and had a different style of living and communication. Or the treatment of African Americans as slaves, treated worse than animals.

The colors of the flowers in my world are EXTREMELY colorful, I can tell your world consists of black and white flowers. In a way I envy your ability to see the world in black and white, however after I came to the realization that religion was not the answer, specifically God, then my entire world opened up with an array of colors not before imaginable.

There are no easy answers in my world. Every single situation and person is different and requires different analyzation and treatment.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Oh ... where to start with such a loaded bunch of racist bunk?
1 - Don't bet on what other people approve of or disapprove of. It makes you look silly.
2 - Americans protecting Americans by killing bad guys isn't 'murder' .. it's self protection.
3 - Our troops are people of many different skin colors. 63% are white. 37% are not.
4 - America liberated Kuwait; put out the oil fires; lost Americans in the process; and didn't keep one oil field.
5 - Where EXACTLY are these wonderful resources that we've overran and kept? Good luck with that.

1) Couldnt care less what a random kid thinks of me online
2) Protecting from what?? 1 millions Iraqis needed killing to protect you...haha OK
3) Cant disagree about that...but they are all mindless drones.
4) Didnt keep the oil but kept the deals in place and the currency
5) Oil, Diamonds, Copper, Iron ore, Sapphires...blah blah blah blah

Its not racist to point out that the USA is an enemy to all of us....how many countries have you invaded in the last decade??? How many has Iraq invaded???

Terrorist....Terror.....ooooh scary words used to make you fearful and controllable.

People only want to kill Americans because that's what Americans do to their families.

I love talking to sheeple like yourself....its amazing what some of you believe lol



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by seeker11
How nice of you to decide that animals are non sentient beings simply because they do not speak your language...


Why yes it is … thank you.


This reminds me of Europeans coming over to North America and killing off the natives calling them barbaric, animal like, simply because they were 'different' and had a different style of living and communication. Or the treatment of African Americans as slaves, treated worse than animals.


Yes because the treatment of animals, keeping them for pets, eating them for nutrition and what not, is an exact parallel to the intentional destruction of many human cultures. How many bovine Beethovens or poultry Picassos have been murdered all for our want of a bucket of KFC! HOW MANY!

Arent you a sharp one.


The colors of the flowers in my world are EXTREMELY colorful, I can tell your world consists of black and white flowers. In a way I envy your ability to see the world in black and white, however after I came to the realization that religion was not the answer, specifically God, then my entire world opened up with an array of colors not before imaginable.


Being an atheist in today’s secularized world, what a truly brave and unique path you have chosen.


There are no easy answers in my world. Every single situation and person is different and requires different analyzation and treatment.


In the matter of ethics, what’s right is right and is so for everyone.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by loves a conspiricy
 



2) Protecting from what?? 1 millions Iraqis needed killing to protect you...haha OK


Ahh, the widely discredited Lancet survey. It’s a wonder you aren’t into religion seeing as how you will believe anything that suits you.


3) Cant disagree about that...but they are all mindless drones.


Ahh yes all drones …. You must know so many to be able to make a statement like that.


4)Didnt keep the oil but kept the deals in place and the currency


No, all the deals were void after Hussien’s government was deposed. That’s why France and Russia were so hell bent to stop the invasion.


5) Oil, Diamonds, Copper, Iron ore, Sapphires...blah blah blah blah


blah blah blah blah … and speaking of all these “stolen resources” where the hell are they? I haven’t seen too many chest laden with Sapphires or diamonds.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 03:44 PM
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Assisted suicide or abortion are both viable options for this thread.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by satron
Assisted suicide or abortion are both viable options for this thread.


FTW.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by SirMike

Originally posted by seeker11
How nice of you to decide that animals are non sentient beings simply because they do not speak your language...


Why yes it is … thank you.


This reminds me of Europeans coming over to North America and killing off the natives calling them barbaric, animal like, simply because they were 'different' and had a different style of living and communication. Or the treatment of African Americans as slaves, treated worse than animals.


Yes because the treatment of animals, keeping them for pets, eating them for nutrition and what not, is an exact parallel to the intentional destruction of many human cultures. How many bovine Beethovens or poultry Picassos have been murdered all for our want of a bucket of KFC! HOW MANY!

Arent you a sharp one.


The colors of the flowers in my world are EXTREMELY colorful, I can tell your world consists of black and white flowers. In a way I envy your ability to see the world in black and white, however after I came to the realization that religion was not the answer, specifically God, then my entire world opened up with an array of colors not before imaginable.


Being an atheist in today’s secularized world, what a truly brave and unique path you have chosen.


There are no easy answers in my world. Every single situation and person is different and requires different analyzation and treatment.


In the matter of ethics, what’s right is right and is so for everyone.


Nice of you to assume I'm an atheist. You make a lot of assumptions fellow human. Just because I don't believe in religion doesn't mean I don't have my own opinions on how the world works. But it's ok, it would be wrong to you anyways so no use talking about them.

So in your argument then, if someone has the potential to be a picasso or beethoven then they are worth saving, otherwise they can be consumed for nutrition. Why don't you just eat mentally handicapped people then seeing as in your world they're not worth the contribution to society?
I am sharp, Thank you.



edit on 15-6-2011 by seeker11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by Maslo
The children are able to feel pain only in the end of third trimester. It is physically impossible for the fetus to feel pain before 5th month of fetal development -

Not to nitpick .. but what the heck ... I'm gunna'

20 weeks = 5 months. That's not the end of the third trimester.
That's the middle of the second trimester.
And that's just what we know about so far.
'They' haven't done studies about brain waves earlier than that.
At least, 'they' haven't released any data that I've seen.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by SirMike

Originally posted by satron
Assisted suicide or abortion are both viable options for this thread.


FTW.


For the Womb?



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by seeker11So in your argument then, if someone has the potential to be a picasso or beethoven then they are worth saving, otherwise they can be consumed for nutrition. Why don't you just eat mentally handicapped people then seeing as in your world they're not worth the contribution to society?


Considering everyone has that potential, I think the idea of turning them into soilent green is a non starter.




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