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Assisted Suicide and abortion

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posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 07:50 PM
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If I want to kill myself and have somebody assist me to do that in the most dignified way possible than that is my right. It is MY body. Why should the government have any say on if I end my life??? I don't understand. Oh wait, I DO understand, it all comes down to religion. The Bible says suicide is BAD, so therefore it is. End of story. Well...if you believe the Bible that is. I do not.

To the person who said that the doctors are supposed to heal only, how come vets are allowed to put suffering animals out of their misery but we're not allowed to do this for our fellow man???

On abortions...
If I want to have an abortion it is MY body, my choice. And I would chose to do it in the most humane way possible at the earliest possible. Not a decision I would EVER take lightly, however I cannot have another child, it would be totally irresponsible and would financially and emotionally ruin me at this point.

So if some crazy accident happened and I got pregnant again at this very moment I would not have the child. Unless I was too far along I would emotionally not feel able to go through with an abortion either. Is this selfish? Not to me, I believe it would be more selfish to have the child, because I would not be able to provide for him emotionally and financially the way that I feel is best.

I already have a child, wasn't planned but I chose to have him and love him dearly, another one though, at this point in my life I know is just not an option.




posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 07:57 PM
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is it legal to refuse food and medical treatment?
so that is suicide!
they let you do that??
but not kill your self??



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 07:57 PM
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sorry hit return two times. no delete?
edit on 14-6-2011 by buddha because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by Judge_Holden
reply to post by SirMike
 




As far as the “choice” argument goes, you lost your choice when you decided to become pregnant.


You are wrong, and as an American, you should be ashamed of yourself for making such a claim. Becoming pregnant is not a crime. An individual never loses their right of choice for anything as doing so would mean that the individual loses their right to be free. This is the United States, not Soviet Russia, Communist China, or North Korea.


No, actually, I am correct. An individuals "right to choose" ends when another's life is involved ... plain ... and simple. .



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by seeker11
If I want to kill myself and have somebody assist me to do that in the most dignified way possible than that is my right. It is MY body. Why should the government have any say on if I end my life??? I don't understand. Oh wait, I DO understand, it all comes down to religion.


No ... it comes down to the fact that you are too cowardly to do it yourself and you need to involve another individual, in this case a liscened medical provider to help you.


To the person who said that the doctors are supposed to heal only, how come vets are allowed to put suffering animals out of their misery but we're not allowed to do this for our fellow man???


Contrary to the garbage people like Peter Singer spews, a dog is not a person ... a pig is not a person ... a cat is not a person.


If I want to have an abortion it is MY body, my choice
.

Your body and your unborn childs body ... fixed it for ya.


And I would chose to do it in the most humane way possible at the earliest possible. Not a decision I would EVER take lightly, however I cannot have another child, it would be totally irresponsible and would financially and emotionally ruin me at this point


There is nothing humane about killing, lets not try to rationalize away an immoral and selfish act.


So if some crazy accident happened and I got pregnant again at this very moment I would not have the child. Unless I was too far along I would emotionally not feel able to go through with an abortion either.


Children arent concieved by accident .. it takes a very deliberate act to enable it. Physiology 101.


Is this selfish? Not to me, I believe it would be more selfish to have the child, because I would not be able to provide for him emotionally and financially the way that I feel is best.
.

So you dont think you will be able to provide ... so your choice is to kill it. Very humane.

Here's something to chew on, up untill reunification, West Germany had a complete prohibition on abortion (after merging with the East, commie rats that the are, they had to allow it in rare circumstances).

It appears they learned something from the Nazi experiment: devaluing human life any human life but particularly innocent human life has terrible consequences for a society as a whole. Wonder why so few others have learned that lesson?



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:35 PM
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reply to post by SirMike
 


How nice of you to decide that it's ok to kill animals but not humans. Do you know what an animal feels or thinks? To me, it is not too much different than killing an animal. Do you eat meat? Would you kill to protect your family? If you answered yes to any of those questions, then you are also guilty of making up your own rules, deciding and choosing for other living creatures what is morally acceptable.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 03:26 AM
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reply to post by SirMike
 




No ... it comes down to the fact that you are too cowardly to do it yourself and you need to involve another individual, in this case a liscened medical provider to help you.


I agree that this is not so important issue in terminally ill patients that are perfectly able to suicide themselves, and if this was the only issue then I would be not so determined that legalisation is needed.

But what about those who are unable to do it without assistance even if they wanted? What about for example paralyzed patients? As medical science progresses, the numbers of patients that are held "between life and death" - in an unnatural state that is relatively stabilised, but cannot be called "life" and is only suffering will only increase.

To force this onto them against their will is barbarian. You dont need any ideology or religion to tell you that, its simple empathy.



Contrary to the garbage people like Peter Singer spews, a dog is not a person ... a pig is not a person ... a cat is not a person.


Yeah, but 8 cell unthinking embryo is suddenly a person..

Please tell me what do you think constitutes a person and what not.
And is braindead but biologically alive human a person which cannot be killed?


edit on 15/6/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by darkbluesky
I just read an article about physician assisted suicide and once again I'm baffled by the moral divergency.

In 47 states it's illegal for a physician to assist a lucid, coherent, sane person in ending his or her life peacefully, painlessly, and with dignity at the time of his or her choice. But, it is completely legal for a physician to brutally end the life of any womans unborn child, on demand, and even against the wishes and pleas of the childs father.

Any society that accepts this f'ed up situation has no future.


Yup. Glad to have you on the legal assisted suicide bandwagon, darkbluesky. Human dignity is glad to have you aboard, as is the right to self-determination.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 03:39 AM
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reply to post by SirMike
 




It appears they learned something from the Nazi experiment: devaluing human life any human life but particularly innocent human life has terrible consequences for a society as a whole.


So where are the terrible societal consequences of legal abortion then? Its been legal in the majority of western world for very long.

On the contrary, in christian countries like Poland, where abortion is illegal (only one in Europe), the bad consequences are visible - it has higher percentage of unwanted and abused children than any other countries. And also abortion tourism into neighbourhing countries is very widesread there, which partially fixes the problem - if abortion was also illegal in neighbours, the problem will be far worse.

If we have learned anything from history, its the fact that mixing religious superstitions and state laws, and not respecting personal freedoms is a one-way ticket into medieval theocratic dictatorship. You are no different that the crazy islamists which want to turn us into islamic state. Different religion, same ideology and attitude.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 03:48 AM
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reply to post by SirMike
 





The concept first do no harm just doesn’t fit with helping a patient commit suicide no matter how hard you try to square that circle.


Yes, it does. When the patient is in pain, and there is no chance of helping him, then by refusing him assisted suicide you are harming him.

There are things worse than death. One of them is a painful death, or a life of suffering.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 03:54 AM
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Originally posted by Maslo


Contrary to the garbage people like Peter Singer spews, a dog is not a person ... a pig is not a person ... a cat is not a person.


Yeah, but 8 cell unthinking embryo is suddenly a person..

Please tell me what do you think constitutes a person and what not.


Here, let me help you out.
Iranian Sailors aren't persons
Kieth Ellison is not allowed to have personal emotions
People who "aren't friendly" with the US deserve death
Unborn kids are people, but let the born ones go hungry to save SirMike a nickel
If you're on well water, you're probably not a person, I guess
Bradley Manning is not a person
People who live in the same country as state-sponsored hackers need to be bombed, too

Forum tip; the more moralizing they are, and the more "patriotic" crap they try to cram into their avatar, usually the more revolting and hypocritical they tend to be.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by seeker11
reply to post by SirMike
 
How nice of you to decide that it's ok to kill animals but not humans.


Yes .. that is quite nice, isn’t it? And tasty too!


If you answered yes to any of those questions, then you are also guilty of making up your own rules, deciding and choosing for other living creatures what is morally acceptable.


Killing an non sentient animal for nourishment is not an immoral act. Killing someone in self defense who seeks to do you or your wards harm is not an immoral act. What colors are the flowers in your world?



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 08:58 AM
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Im pretty sure in assisted suicide you take you own life. A doctor is just there to mix the poison and to check your mental state.

You physically hold the glass and pour it down your throat. This is how Dignitas work.

You are escorted by a couple of normal people who hold no medical qualification, they are just there to comfort you and the family if present.

Its your choice to take your life....your not strapped down and injected by a doctor.

Suicide is only a sin if you believe in god, and as i dont i would have no qualms about taking my own life if i was in considerable pain or had a degenerative disease.

Its personal choice and no one has the right to deny someone a means to escape a life of pain and suffering.

My dog was put down a day after we found out he had stomach cancer. The vet said it would be best for my dog as he would be in pain. Yet we are expected to live through such pain and suffering.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by SirMike
 

But what about those who are unable to do it without assistance even if they wanted? What about for example paralyzed patients? As medical science progresses, the numbers of patients that are held "between life and death" - in an unnatural state that is relatively stabilised, but cannot be called "life" and is only suffering will only increase.

To force this onto them against their will is barbarian. You dont need any ideology or religion to tell you that, its simple empathy.


To decide for someone else what is and isn’t a worthwhile life and to have medical personnel intervene and kill them is barbaric.


Please tell me what do you think constitutes a person and what not.


A heartbeat .. brainwaves … what else?


And is braindead but biologically alive human a person which cannot be killed?


Interesting … read this.

www.guardian.co.uk...



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Forum tip; the more moralizing they are, and the more "patriotic" crap they try to cram into their avatar, usually the more revolting and hypocritical they tend to be.


I would stand by everything I have posted here.

P.S. as a veteran I think I have earned the right to have some "patriotic crap" in my avatar.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by SirMike

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Forum tip; the more moralizing they are, and the more "patriotic" crap they try to cram into their avatar, usually the more revolting and hypocritical they tend to be.


I would stand by everything I have posted here.

P.S. as a veteran I think I have earned the right to have some "patriotic crap" in my avatar.





P.S. as a veteran I think I have earned the right to have some "patriotic crap" in my avatar.


As a murderer you mean....yea its legal...but you have still taken someones life without their consent...for someones elses personal gain

I thought murder is a sin...regardless of whether someone paid you to do it or not.

Double standards....dont throw stones if you live in a glass house....calling the kettle black....hypocrite...all spring to mind when reading your posts.
edit on 15-6-2011 by loves a conspiricy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by Judge_Holden
Would you kindly tell me who owns our bodies?

We should be allowed to stop our own heart from beating any time we want to. However, we should not be able to stop another persons heart from beating if they haven't specifically asked for it. That's murder. Therefore - abortion is the stopping of another human beings heart WITHOUT their permission or desire. Would you kindly tell me what that is?? What is it when you stop another human beings heart from beating WITHOUT their permission or desire for that to happen? Women don't abort themselves .. they dont' stop their own hearts from beating .. they stop someone elses'. Can't get around that fact.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Judge_Holden
Would you kindly tell me who owns our bodies?

We should be allowed to stop our own heart from beating any time we want to. However, we should not be able to stop another persons heart from beating if they haven't specifically asked for it. That's murder. Therefore - abortion is the stopping of another human beings heart WITHOUT their permission or desire. Would you kindly tell me what that is?? What is it when you stop another human beings heart from beating WITHOUT their permission or desire for that to happen? Women don't abort themselves .. they dont' stop their own hearts from beating .. they stop someone elses'. Can't get around that fact.


War is legal...........its a far worse and should be a crime yet i bet you support your troops murdering brown people for resources???

A beating heart doesn't mean consciousness or the ability to feel pain.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
i bet you support your troops murdering brown people for resources???

:shk: Oh ... where to start with such a loaded bunch of racist bunk? :shk:
1 - Don't bet on what other people approve of or disapprove of. It makes you look silly.
2 - Americans protecting Americans by killing bad guys isn't 'murder' .. it's self protection.
3 - Our troops are people of many different skin colors. 63% are white. 37% are not.
4 - America liberated Kuwait; put out the oil fires; lost Americans in the process; and didn't keep one oil field.
5 - Where EXACTLY are these wonderful resources that we've overran and kept? Good luck with that.

If you were correct (which you obviously aren't), then America would be invading Venezuela ... killing 'brown' people ... and taking those oil fields (and the pretty beaches as well) ... it's much closer and much easier. But we aren't. Your silly theory is baseless antiamericanism ... and racist.

US Army Demographics
Heritage Foundation - military demographics
US Army Profile


A beating heart doesn't mean consciousness or the ability to feel pain.

Science has proven that unborn children feel pain. During medical procedures and surguries, unborn children are given pain killers. Yes .. unborn children have surguries and doctors are required to give them pain killers.

Yet, those unborn children who are killed off - they are subjected to acid baths that burn off their skin and kill them ... subjected to being shredded in the womb ... and no pain killers are administered as they are butchered by their 'loving' parents.

Interestingly ... news in this area -

Alabama passes pain-capable unborn child protection act


“Modern medical science furnishes us with compelling evidence that unborn children recoil from painful stimuli, that their stress hormones increase when they are subjected to any painful stimuli, and that they require anesthesia for fetal surgery,” Mary Spaulding Balch, a spokeswoman for the national pro-life group, said in a statement. “Therefore, the states have a compelling interest in protecting unborn children who are capable of feeling pain from abortion.”



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by loves a conspiricy
 


Blah blah blah ... your insight is duly noted.



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