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Why it is good for Christians to debate Atheists (my first thread)

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posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 03:17 PM
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I have been reading threads on ATS for a few years now but only recently decided to register.

Part of being a Christian is knowing the Bible, understanding what our creator wants from us, and last but not least converting non-believers.
Answering questions posed to us helps us understand thing's we may be unfamiliar with.

Some Christians may not like what i've written because it points out our weaknesses.
On a personal note I can say I have read a lot about evolution among other subjects. And I know a bit about Darwin, Dawkins and Hawkins (strange how similar those names are) . Even through that my faith in God stayed strong. That is because a spiritual experience is always stronger than a visual one. Your eyes can deceive you but the heart never lies.

Over the last few months I decided to put together some of the evidenece that i found to be proof of a God and the Bible. I have many note books I need to put together in some sort of order, It will probably be a few threads worth and could take a while now I have a 6 month old to keep me occupied.
Hey, I might even write a book. lol

I look forward to posting more threads and joining in the theist - atheist debate.

Peace to all




posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 03:25 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 03:29 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by Dezero
 


Okay.
I look forward to reading what you have to say.





posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 03:37 PM
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Why do you want to debate people who do not believe in anything? I myself see all religion the same way you most likely see Scientology.

I would think you have a better chance at converting people that believe, but do not believe your specific God is God. This way you know they are at least capable of buying into some type of fairytale before you make the effort.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 03:39 PM
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Basically your Title of this thread and your OP have nothing to do with each other. You have stated no FACTS, no reasoning and absolutely nothing to debate about! You have a sensationalist Title to get lots of attention but no real evidence or conclusion to support your intended message.
An OP is like a Thesis, you write down an idea, use some supporting facts(wikipedia and youtube are NOT sources) and draw a conclusion that is debatable. You then use Facts to argue your side of the issue.
I am not flaming you, I just would like to see these sensationalist sounding threads to actually have something to debate about. You gave us nothing!

My reply to your Title is:
You will never, and I repeat NEVER get someone to change their minds unless they are already willing to change! I am glad that you found your path, however it is difficult to believe that anything worthwhile can come out of exchange of beliefs based on a book!



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Dezero
Your eyes can deceive you but the heart never lies.


Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked; Who can know it?

Now personally I consider this to be nonsense. But then I am no longer a christian,



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by redbarron626
Basically your Title of this thread and your OP have nothing to do with each other. You have stated no FACTS, no reasoning and absolutely nothing to debate about! You have a sensationalist Title to get lots of attention but no real evidence or conclusion to support your intended message.
An OP is like a Thesis, you write down an idea, use some supporting facts(wikipedia and youtube are NOT sources) and draw a conclusion that is debatable. You then use Facts to argue your side of the issue.
I am not flaming you, I just would like to see these sensationalist sounding threads to actually have something to debate about. You gave us nothing!

My reply to your Title is:
You will never, and I repeat NEVER get someone to change their minds unless they are already willing to change! I am glad that you found your path, however it is difficult to believe that anything worthwhile can come out of exchange of beliefs based on a book!


That was kind of the idea. I didn't want anything of substance just an introduction and an idea of the type of threads I will be making.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by redbarron626
Basically your Title of this thread and your OP have nothing to do with each other. You have stated no FACTS, no reasoning and absolutely nothing to debate about! You have a sensationalist Title to get lots of attention but no real evidence or conclusion to support your intended message.
An OP is like a Thesis, you write down an idea, use some supporting facts(wikipedia and youtube are NOT sources) and draw a conclusion that is debatable. You then use Facts to argue your side of the issue.
I am not flaming you, I just would like to see these sensationalist sounding threads to actually have something to debate about. You gave us nothing!

My reply to your Title is:
You will never, and I repeat NEVER get someone to change their minds unless they are already willing to change! I am glad that you found your path, however it is difficult to believe that anything worthwhile can come out of exchange of beliefs based on a book!


Well you can claim to know me but you don't. I genuinly made this thread to get the ball rolling. I have plenty of substance but this was just a general introduction along with a taster of what i'll be posting.
I never claimed I would ever change peoples minds. Although I have changed a few peoples minds already. Just not on a thread ( That I know of ). I did add that this was not a debate issue just my introdcution but I then edited it that part out. I guess I should have left that in.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by Dezero
...Part of being a Christian is knowing the Bible, understanding what our creator wants from us, and last but not least converting non-believers...


Yes. That is the job of a christian, so let's break it down.

1) "Knowing the bible". Usually anyone who can repeat long passages from the bible is thought to be special - even though it means nothing. A "man of god" is someone who can keep you entertained WHILE he repeats passages from the bible. As a good christian forum-warrior, you can just cut and paste.

2) "Understanding what our creator wants from us". This is where the christians may have a problem. Usually they are more interested in who can cut and paste the best. Out of the many "christians" I know, many can quote verses, but few love their neighbor - strange, right? Different brands of the christian product have widely varying ideas of what God wants, but have no problem selling it as the undeniable truth. Again, strange.

3) "Converting non-believers". Yes. You MUST SELL PRODUCT. whichever brand you believe in is the "truth" and other brands are wrong, but well-intentioned. SELL, SELL, SELL. Anyone who isn't interested is going to hell!



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by Dezero
 


First off: Welcome to the sub-forum, hope you have a nice stay.

Now, point-by-point.


Originally posted by Dezero
Part of being a Christian is knowing the Bible, understanding what our creator wants from us, and last but not least converting non-believers.


I guess that's what some Christians think.



Answering questions posed to us helps us understand thing's we may be unfamiliar with.


I'm happy you admit that. I admit it as well. I've learned more about evolution in my time on ATS due to creationist questionings of them.



Some Christians may not like what i've written because it points out our weaknesses.


We all have our weaknesses. Some have the additional weakness of not acknowledging their own.



On a personal note I can say I have read a lot about evolution among other subjects. And I know a bit about Darwin, Dawkins and Hawkins (strange how similar those names are) .


...close, but not quite. Hawking. And it's not particularly strange considering that one was born 150 years ago and all three of them are British.



Even through that my faith in God stayed strong. That is because a spiritual experience is always stronger than a visual one.


And yet I don't acknowledge the existence of spiritual experiences and I find that empirically tested and retested experimentation is far stronger than either. Of course, that's for us to discuss in your later threads.



Your eyes can deceive you but the heart never lies.


My heart pumps blood...and yes, my eyes do routinely deceive me. All humans have a big ol' blindspot in the middle of their eyes.

Close one eye and look at the circle. Keeping your eye focused on the circle, move towards or away from the monitor until the plus sign disappears.

files.abovetopsecret.com...

Just found your blind spot. You can repeat with the other eye.



Over the last few months I decided to put together some of the evidenece that i found to be proof of a God and the Bible.


I look forward to seeing if you have anything new, it would be nice for a change of pace. At the very least, it's a new face with a new take and a new voice.



I have many note books I need to put together in some sort of order, It will probably be a few threads worth and could take a while now I have a 6 month old to keep me occupied.


Try to take it by main theme or point. Just a suggestion. Also, try to make sure that your threads aren't too vague. Just some friendly advice from your friendly neighborhood atheist.



Hey, I might even write a book. lol


Reach for the stars.



I look forward to posting more threads and joining in the theist - atheist debate.


So do I. Make sure to double check the terms and conditions and all of that boring stuff, it'll save you a lot of hassle in the long run.



Peace to all


Same back to you.
edit on 14/6/11 by madnessinmysoul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by LHP666

Originally posted by Dezero
Your eyes can deceive you but the heart never lies.


Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked; Who can know it?

Now personally I consider this to be nonsense. But then I am no longer a christian,



Good one. I was going to post something later about the contradictions but I guess i'll look a fool if I don't reply to this.

Although I call myself a Christian I would never proclaim the bible to be the whole true word of God. Call me a hypocrite but I try to take the positives out of it and leave the negatives.
It has definately been messed with over the years. Edited by a Roman who were known pagans.
And very biased towards the jews.

I'll post more on the subject later.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 04:49 PM
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I personally find a very different reason for one to debate their beliefs.

Personally, I think shunning out other ideas to maintain you're own beliefs is just stupid. And yet many people do it. How strongly can you believe in something if you're scared that hearing all the facts may make you question that belief? And if you truly believed something, you'd believe that all the facts would ultimately point to it being true, giving you no reason to hide from them.

Basically, I think avoiding topics is a form of deluding oneself, compared to if you looked at them head on and made an educated decision.

This sounds totally common sense, but if you think about it, most people in life have no interest in hearing a side that disagrees with them, and are stubborn with holding on to what they believe in.

Because of this, reason of mine, I am looking forward to reading your future topics, not despite the fact that they reach different conclusions, but specially because they do so.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by xxsomexpersonxx
I personally find a very different reason for one to debate their beliefs.

Personally, I think shunning out other ideas to maintain you're own beliefs is just stupid. And yet many people do it. How strongly can you believe in something if you're scared that hearing all the facts may make you question that belief? And if you truly believed something, you'd believe that all the facts would ultimately point to it being true, giving you no reason to hide from them.

Basically, I think avoiding topics is a form of deluding oneself, compared to if you looked at them head on and made an educated decision.

This sounds totally common sense, but if you think about it, most people in life have no interest in hearing a side that disagrees with them, and are stubborn with holding on to what they believe in.

Because of this, reason of mine, I am looking forward to reading your future topics, not despite the fact that they reach different conclusions, but specially because they do so.


It's not really shunning out ideas I was talking about. It is more discovering new ones. There is a wealth of knowledge you can get from the bible, whether people like to admit it or not



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by Dezero
It's not really shunning out ideas I was talking about. It is more discovering new ones. There is a wealth of knowledge you can get from the bible, whether people like to admit it or not


That's what I was trying to say, that it's important to get all the ideas and give them a fair go. I was saying that most people do the opposite, which amounts to shunning them out.

Wealth of knowledge in the bible though, I can't say I agree. I can't even think of anything that would count as particularly knowledgeable in there, could you give some examples?



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by LHP666
 



What is the full context of the passage?



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by Dezero
 


No good Dezero, you'll just get flamed, as I see you already have been and your posts and those of Christians, will be taken off, on the excuse of being "off topic" or even for too much quoting!

Any excuse will do by them.


Free speech is not for Christians here...



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 01:52 AM
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Originally posted by Vicky32
reply to post by Dezero
 


No good Dezero, you'll just get flamed, as I see you already have been and your posts and those of Christians, will be taken off, on the excuse of being "off topic" or even for too much quoting!

Any excuse will do by them.


Free speech is not for Christians here...



My post was already of topic.

I wanted to know about how the Aliens fit in the situation.. (got removed as you can see on-top in this thread)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 02:07 AM
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Originally posted by TribeOfManyColours

Originally posted by Vicky32
reply to post by Dezero
 


No good Dezero, you'll just get flamed, as I see you already have been and your posts and those of Christians, will be taken off, on the excuse of being "off topic" or even for too much quoting!

Any excuse will do by them.


Free speech is not for Christians here...



My post was already of topic.

I wanted to know about how the Aliens fit in the situation.. (got removed as you can see on-top in this thread)

Oh, I see. I hadn't seen your post (I'd just discovered this thread.) I am very annoyed because I had posts taken off for being off topic and excessive quoting when neither of things was true - but I had offended atheists! So I am getting a bit paranoid....



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 06:03 AM
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reply to post by Vicky32
 


Everyone gets off-topic posts taken down and there are various reasons, typically good ones. As for the excessive quoting, they don't tend to remove the whole post, they just tend to remove the giant block o' quotation.

To say that Christians are discriminated against on this forum is to ignore the religious makeup of the staff of ATS, where most of the moderators are Christians.

You break the rules, you get the same treatment, Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Buddhist, Wiccan, Hindu, Pantheist, etc.



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