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Many weapons used by Mexican drug gangs originate in U.S.

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posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 01:02 PM

Originally posted by kro32

This is why the second amendment allows Congress to legislate which arms are legal for the populace to own. This amendment is not specific for a very good reason.


Excuse me! what part of "Shall not be Infringed" do you not understand!

What part of "The rights not enumerated shall belong to the states and people respectively" do you not understand!

Sorry congress has no mandate nor authority to constitutionally make any law here. Ever notice how enabling function is always couched in misuse of the commerce clause - its because they know they have no direct constitutional power so almost everything they do is an end around of the constitution.

This is one of your inalienable rights not given to you by the government and not take-able by the government, nor can you give it away, but in existence above and beyond government control which is just the way the founders wanted it.

Now with that said if you abuse the rights of others because you cannot handle freedom then you should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Time after time its the 1% percenters who plea bargain mandatory 10 year gun crime sentences down to lessor charges that keep causing the problems. Where DA's have stopped plea bargaining wonder of wonders the gun crime rate went down because the 1% was actually removed from society.

Wonder of wonders states that have passed must issue carry laws have lower crimes rates.

If you keep letting "progressive" erosion of your rights happen for expediency then you will wake one day to no freedom at all - I believe that day is already here - you just don't realize it!

Gunwalker was a blatant attempt to manufacture a problem so that Americans would be convinced to give up by degrees their inalienable rights - all involved should be charged with treason and forever disbarred from government service for violating the constitution and any oath they had taken to defend it.

If you are afraid of me having the means to defend myself however I choose to do so please deal with your own issue do not lay it at my feet nor attempt to usurp my rights - you may choose to NOT exercise your right but thats solely your problem.

posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 01:06 PM
I just posted a thread related to this topic...

normaly I dont copy and paste my replies but in this case I will

And that brings us to this new Falus Flag Alert
you see at first we had the 90% of guns used in Mexico came from the states... Now they claim its 70%... so lets look at how they arrived at those figures

As we discussed in a previous analysis, the 90 percent number was derived from a June 2009 U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) report to Congress on U.S. efforts to combat arms trafficking to Mexico

According to the GAO report, some 30,000 firearms were seized from criminals by Mexican authorities in 2008. Of these 30,000 firearms, information pertaining to 7,200 of them (24 percent) was submitted to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for tracing. Of these 7,200 guns, only about 4,000 could be traced by the ATF, and of these 4,000, some 3,480 (87 percent) were shown to have come from the United States.

This means that the 87 percent figure relates to the number of weapons submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF that could be successfully traced and not from the total number of weapons seized by Mexican authorities or even from the total number of weapons submitted to the ATF for tracing. In fact, the 3,480 guns positively traced to the United States equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in Mexico in 2008 and less than 48 percent of all those submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF for tracing. This means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in Mexico in 2008 were not traced back to the United States.

well folks this is going to be a very interesting hearing to watch ... I'll keep you all posted as new developments appear

posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 01:10 PM
reply to post by DaddyBare

My man DaddyBare coming in with some stats and logic.

Great to have you here.

posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 01:14 PM
reply to post by macman

Ya know what they say...
if it looks like BS sounds like BS and smells like BS... then its probably a Democrat Party press release

posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 01:32 PM

Originally posted by Marrr
I'd rather the sewer that is Mexico simply be overwhelmingly eliminated off the face of the Earth via nuclear weapons.

I entertain similar thoughts regarding your country, minus the nukes. It doesn't occupy my mind to any great extent though, the US is well into a self-destruct mode. Like the former Soviet Union I expect we are not long to be referring to those states up north as the former United States. Soon I expect by birthright I will be considered a citizen of The Republic of California, and also by choice the Estados Unidos Mexicanos.

Your personal liberties are diminishing at an alarming rate and in their empirical pursuit that is what the US would hope to deseminate. The rest of the world will not let that happen though, and not necessarily by armed conflict to preserve themselves. Patience and perseverance should be sufficient.

Global Prohibition policy is not popular, it will end their dominance eventually. When that happens your life may not go through a drastic change, just that the US as a global entity will be hobbled, will be no more, and no longer be able to meddle into other countries' affairs. And notions like yours as stated above will amount to whizzing into the wind, just as they do now.

edit on 14-6-2011 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 01:33 PM

Originally posted by DaddyBare
reply to post by macman

Ya know what they say...
if it looks like BS sounds like BS and smells like BS... then its probably a Democrat Party press release

The quote of the day.

posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 01:33 PM
reply to post by TDawgRex

I have lived in states of the two extremes. One where its an open carry state, the other has passed every measure but make guns illegal.
I believe in some gun control, like registration and background checks. But if you pass you get it. So in the gun control state, it has the city with the fourth highest murder rate in the country, along with the highest rate of violent crime. hhhmmm

posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 01:46 PM
reply to post by nixie_nox

They source all their facts, check them out yourself. I find Fox News normally the most reliable of the MSM outlets when you dig into their stories. Some people fail to separate their news coverage from their commentary. While most commentators lean right many of their on air news people lean left, like Shephard Smith. Even looking at the commentary Fox offers the liberal side far more often that other MSM outlets offer the conservative side to an issue.

posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 02:01 PM
Firstly let me state that however OLD the 2nd Amendment is, a right is a right. Unless our government plans to throw away the constitution, then this is an invalid argument and should be completely ignored.

When the 2nd Amendment was passed by the house (via voice vote) there was no debate. The only debate part was if it actually needed to be included in the Bill of Rights in the first place. Many in the house saw it as a fundamental right that could not and should not be taken away by any government unless there was due cause.

For almost 150 years the Federal Government never bothered anyone about the 2nd Amendment. And then a select "few" started to decide that the we needed laws and restrictions to our gun rights for "the safety and security of the people". As if to say, without gun regulations, everyone and their grandmother would be on a full-auto rampage murdering everything they see. Obviously this would not be the case, with or without regulations. Specifically whom are these laws making it safer for? The average law abiding citizen, who follows the proper protocols and procedures to purchase and own a firearm? Or the criminals who don't "legally" own these weapons in the first place?

We must keep in mind where these "Gun Control Regulations" came from. Shortly after prohibition the Federal Government enacted the "National Firearms Act of 1934". Congress realized they had no legal authority to mess with the 2nd Amendment, and so they sought to tax guns to death. The BATF was created, as an agency under the Department of the Treasury. There goal was to enforce the "tax" on firearms. The fee to purchase and own a gun? $200. The actual cost of a brand new gun back then? $6.50. Do you see the problem here? $200 tax to own a $6.50 gun??? This would be equal today to paying around $5k to purchase say a shotgun from Walmart for $250. This issue was brought to light in the case of "The United States v. Miller". Two men were arrested for not having paid their taxes on a "sawed off shotgun" and thrown in jail. The judge dismissed the charges stating that the $200 tax was unfair. This is the way our government decided to treat the situation. It KNEW it couldn't go against the 2nd Amendment and so it tried to side step around it. Just like they are trying to do today.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 introduced the "sporting use" clause. This basically stated that any imported firearms be generally used and recognized as suitable for sporting purposes (hunting I guess), EXCLUDING Military surplus firearms. This gave Congress broad reach over what they deemed "eligible". You want to know the names of those involved in this decision? They should sound familiar. Orrin Hatch, Bob Dole, Ted Kennedy, Arlen Specter and guess who.... Joe Biden. See where this is going? See the tie in yet?

In 1994 the government passed the "Violent Crime Control Act" which is basically the Federal Assault Weapons ban. This took away peoples rights to buy semi-automatic weapons which the government defined as "Assault Weapons". Now keep in mind, a .308 deer hunting rifle, in essence, is no different then an H&K PTR91. But because the H&K looks military, it was banned. They both shot the same bullet, one shot per trigger pull. Thankfully, this ban expired in 2004 and was not re-adopted. You know what is interesting too? After the ban was lifted, the national crime rate dropped by 3.6%.

Statistically speaking, states with bans on gun carry permits have a higher crime rate then states that do not. For example, Vermont has very easy permissive gun carry laws, yet has one of the lowest crime rates in the US. Washington DC however has no carry permits. It also has one of the highest gun murder rates in the country (57 out of every 100,000 people). Arlington Virginia, which is right next door to DC, again has easy gun carry laws. While it is right next to DC, its murder rate is 1.6 per ever 100,000 people. This doesn't really help the governments position that HAVING guns leads to more murders.

It is important to note, that Obama has stated that he supports a permanent ban of "Assault Weapons". His Vice President was directly involved with past Gun Control laws. This points directly to what is going on right now. As someone stated earlier. The Dems have a hard-on for gun control and they will do anything to get it.

Here is a quote to keep in mind:

Noah Webster

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed as they are in almost every Kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword because the whole body of the people are armed."


Judge Andrew P. Napolitano - Lies the Government Told You

The gun bans and registration laws have in effect continued transfer of power from the people, as envisioned by the Founding Fathers, to the government, progressively walking toward an end where the people will be helpless and the government all-powerful.

Why would the government not take the opportunity to disarm us, while espousing the lies that it is not disarmament, that we continue to have a right to keep and bear arms, and that any regulations are only to ensure our safety?

posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 03:20 PM

Originally posted by kro32
You also must look at the world in which the founders lived when they wrote all this. Jefferson and his people were afraid of the government having too much control which is where the bill of rights comes from. Hamilton and his people thought the bill of rights was totally unecessary as everything was covered in the Constitution already and had a fear of people uprising. Hamilton didn't believe the average people were intelligent enough to govern themselves which is where the electoral college comes from.

This is why the second amendment allows Congress to legislate which arms are legal for the populace to own. This amendment is not specific for a very good reason.

edit on 14-6-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-6-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

NICE TRY "Kro32" ;how many times are we gonna have this discussion?. YOU added this idea. Nowhere in the constitution does it give congress permission to AMMEND the second amendment (to read:". "The right to bear "Only" these arms AND NO OTHERs".)
without a constitutional convention and ratified by all 50 states!
edit on 14-6-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-6-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 04:57 PM
That is awesome how widely known and accepted it is that the alphabet agencies are the ones SELLING the guns down there in the first place.

They are probably TRADING it for DRUGS.

JUST like the Iran Contra Affair !!!

I bet they are even taking a group of mercenaries from the Mexican population for ultra-dirty hands off type black operations too (as another form of trade commodity). Who knows whats really going on and how deep all these rabbit holes really go??

It's it sweet though how obvious and apparent the truth is?

Maybe the War on Drugs will be forced to end or something? I hope so.

Let's bring an end to this era of Prohibition and Smuggling and Mafia.

edit on 14-6-2011 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 05:00 PM

Originally posted by nixie_nox

Many weapons used by Mexican drug gangs originate in U.S.

More than 70% of 29,284 firearms submitted to the U.S. Department of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for tracing by the Mexican government during 2009 and 2010 originated in the United States, according to the report.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Yeah...and the ATF helped them get thousands of them over there.....nothin new here

posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 05:32 PM
AND,the cartel gunmen used ATF supplied weapons to kill American citizens and Lwe Enforcement Officers...thanks Janet...shes a good sort

posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 05:42 PM

posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:35 AM
Democrat Rep. Cummings Blaming Second Amendment Ahead of Fast and Furious Hearing

Ranking Member of the House Oversight Committee Elijah Cummings is blaming the Second Amendment and repeating lies about how Mexican drug cartels obtain weapons to carry out lethal operations. The majority of weapons in Mexico come from Russia, Central America and China, not the United States, however, democrats and the Justice Department have been using law abiding gun shop owners as a scape goat, blaming them for the violence in Mexico since early 2009. However, new information obtained by Chairman Darrell Issa, shows is ATF responsible for violence in Mexico and the United States, not the Second Amendment and not law abiding Americans. It seems as though democrats will use this opportunity of gross government failure to push more gun control.

From Cummings opening statement:

No legitimate examination of this issue will be complete without analyzing our nation’s gun laws, which allow tens of thousands of assault weapons to flood into Mexico from the United States every year, including fifty caliber sniper rifles, multiple AK variants, and scores of others. When Mexican President Calderon addressed Congress in May, he pleaded for us to stop fueling a full-scale drug war with military grade assault weapons.

This statement is false. Tens of thousands of assault weapons do not flood into Mexico each year from the United States. This has accusation has been discredited over and over again through studies and even through WikiLeaks. The only flooding of weapons across the southern border is occuring at the hands of the U.S. government.

After months of stonewalling from the Obama Justice Department, a new scathing and damning report about Operation Fast and Furious has been released, and the initial details are ugly.

-- Agents expected to interdict weapons, yet were told to stand down and “just surveil.” Agents therefore did not act. They watched straw purchasers buy hundreds of weapons illegally and transfer those weapons to unknown third parties and stash houses.

-- ATF agents complained about the strategy of allowing guns to walk in Operation Fast and Furious. Leadership ignored their concerns. Instead, supervisors told the agents to “get with the program” because senior ATF officials had sanctioned the operation.

-- Agents knew that given the large numbers of weapons being trafficked to Mexico, tragic results were a near certainty.

-- Operation Fast and Furious contributed to the increasing violence and deaths in Mexico. This result was regarded with giddy optimism by ATF supervisors hoping that guns recovered at crime scenes in Mexico would provide the nexus to straw purchasers in Phoenix.

The family of Border Partrol Agent Brian Terry will testify today on Capitol Hill. Terry was killed in the Arizona desert by a gun traced back to ATF's lethal operation.

I wonder what Calderon thinks now. I can't wait to hear what he has to say.

posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:55 AM
reply to post by VAPatriot

How do these Moronic, habitual liars stay in elected office?

posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:59 AM
reply to post by macman

My guess is the masses of Moronic, cowardly lemmings that make up this country.

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