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Many weapons used by Mexican drug gangs originate in U.S.

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posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by kro32
You also must look at the world in which the founders lived when they wrote all this. Jefferson and his people were afraid of the government having too much control which is where the bill of rights comes from. Hamilton and his people thought the bill of rights was totally unecessary as everything was covered in the Constitution already and had a fear of people uprising. Hamilton didn't believe the average people were intelligent enough to govern themselves which is where the electoral college comes from.

This is why the second amendment allows Congress to legislate which arms are legal for the populace to own. This amendment is not specific for a very good reason.

I love this crap. You think that changing portions of the Constitution should be at the flick of the pen.
The right is not subject to the policy changes of a Govt agency, as per the Constitution.
If the right were to be changed and/or retracted, then there is a path for this.




posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:11 AM
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The question I ask is are these weapons fully automatic? If they are then how would American gun owners be to blame when we are only allowed semi-automatic weapons..

Even if not the cartels have plenty of money to throw around and I'm sure gun ban or no they would still get their grimy paws on military grade weapons..



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by kro32
 


Umm, Perhaps you should look into what the founders DID say about the matter.....


"On every question of construction (of the Constitution) let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823, The Complete Jefferson, p322.


"To disarm the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them..." -George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380.


"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." -Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-8.

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined...The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun. -Patrick Henry.

"The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms." -Samuel Adams, debates & Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87.


You are derailing this thread. This thread is not about the 2nd Amendment. It is about the fact that our government is providing guns tyo Mexico and blaming US gun owners. Please get back on topic or move along.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:12 AM
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if you would just look back in time you will find the=at yes we the people could have full auto weapons a cannon in our front yard and if the mill had it so could we, it was not till the Mob days put an end to it and then in the 1960's you have the fire arms act that said some guns fire arms can be put in the mail and some are not some are collectors and some are not.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by DaMod
The question I ask is are these weapons fully automatic? If they are then how would American gun owners be to blame when we are only allowed semi-automatic weapons..

Even if not the cartels have plenty of money to throw around and I'm sure gun ban or no they would still get their grimy paws on military grade weapons..


American Citizens can own fully automatic firearms. There is a process for this, lots of taxes and fees, hoops to jump through and added to "the list".

But, they are not readily available.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by DaMod
 


Read the articels. They explain what the ATF is doing. No they are not Auto. And yes, Americans can own automatic wepons. It's a very expencive, but a great investment. Automatic wepons never stop going up in value. Limited supply, must be pre 1986.
edit on 14-6-2011 by VAPatriot because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by macman
 


Well yes with an FFL but basically you surrender the rest of your rights to a point when you get one....



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:18 AM
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The original poster brought up the 2nd amendment I didn't so it's open for discussion. Very well than I see that most of you agree that it would be legal for me to own chemical or nuclear weapons then. Now you'll say blah blah let's not do this again but using your logic that is what you are claiming.

My point is that there should be some legislation and the Constitution allows for debate on this as the Supreme Court has upheld on numerous occasions so for all those saying that you can bear any type of arms you want i'm afraid your fighting a losing battle.

"The right to bear arms" is a statement that is debateable and thiis has proven to be the case.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:21 AM
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No FFL needed in VA.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


AK 47s are the most prolific weapons in Africa and the ME. Manufactured by Russia, China, The former Yugoslavia, Czech, etc..etc...etc.

American firearms, ala M16s and AR clones are expensive to produce. If you see alot on the battlefield, you know that they are well financed.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by kro32
The original poster brought up the 2nd amendment I didn't so it's open for discussion. Very well than I see that most of you agree that it would be legal for me to own chemical or nuclear weapons then. Now you'll say blah blah let's not do this again but using your logic that is what you are claiming.

My point is that there should be some legislation and the Constitution allows for debate on this as the Supreme Court has upheld on numerous occasions so for all those saying that you can bear any type of arms you want i'm afraid your fighting a losing battle.

"The right to bear arms" is a statement that is debateable and thiis has proven to be the case.


Ok, good bye.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by kro32
The original poster brought up the 2nd amendment I didn't so it's open for discussion. Very well than I see that most of you agree that it would be legal for me to own chemical or nuclear weapons then. Now you'll say blah blah let's not do this again but using your logic that is what you are claiming.

My point is that there should be some legislation and the Constitution allows for debate on this as the Supreme Court has upheld on numerous occasions so for all those saying that you can bear any type of arms you want i'm afraid your fighting a losing battle.

"The right to bear arms" is a statement that is debateable and thiis has proven to be the case.


Arms...meaning something you can carry and fire. Back in the day though, they didn't have RPGs & LAWs.

The 2nd amendment is quite clear. Not really up for debate. It is after all, one of the originals.

Your Chem-Bio weapons argument holds no water in my my opinion. That is a non starter. Most anyone can make those things in their kitchen with a little research.

You bring up regulation. This can be a good or a bad thing. Regulations should clarify, not inhibit. Why should I, as a law abiding citizen give up my right to bear arms? Why does the government insist upon tracking me, after I have filled out the paperwork (which they have access to) upon purchasing a weapon?

But back on topic. I replied to a post just a couple hours ago,

This is this admins first major false flag op (That they got caught on anyway)

Project Gun Runner and Operation Fast and Furious could very well be this administrations “Watergate”. But they’ll weasel out of it somehow. At a minimum, Holder should resign. That guy is the worst thing that could ever happen to the DOJ. As soon as you see the race card being played out concerning this investigation, you’ll know that this “Nation of cowards” is on to some pretty damning evidence and the house of cards will start to fall.

They have ignored congressional subpoenas, stonewalled internal investigations and flat out lied about who knew what. They have gotten Calderone to play along as well. I still haven’t heard his thoughts on this matter. I would be extremely peeved if I was him.

The arrogance of this admin is beyond even the last one. They think they are untouchable. They are “working under the radar” to use Obama’s own words to stifle the rights of honest law abiding citizens. They are working to ban large capacity magazines, make reloading difficult and expensive. Gunpowder, brass and primers are getting harder to acquire around where I live as they sell out as they come off the truck.

Look for future restrictions on telescopic sights & accessories as well. Anything to disarm the American populace.

Your thoughts?



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


Where Mexican drug cartel guns really come from:

www.foxnews.com...



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by wasco2
 


Interesting article, though I take most things from Fox with a grain of salt. Lets say that the numbers are skewed into people taking gun control methods, I think the fear of americans have about our own weapons being turned against us would be an even more powerful driving factor.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


People have a thing against Fox, CNN, etc. As soon as they see who produced the article, they blow it off. I believe that in today’s world, you always have to look at MSM with a jaundiced eye. The MSM is a business. The info is out there, but you must dig, read between the lines and make your own decision. Many do not. They accept it at face value.

But regarding the Mexican drug war, there is so much out there, in many languages & mediums, that it takes all day just to sift through it.

I try to look at the big picture, rather than what fits my current opinion. And my opinion has changed over time and continues to do so. I have been played the fool before, unwittingly of course.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by nixie_nox

Who is supplying them?


The ATF and the rest of the federal government is supplying them.


I agree. The US Border Patrol had it's teeth pulled long ago and they weren't allowed to use force and stop people either walking into the US with Weapons...or walking out with them. Congress/President only let the US Border Patrol use their feet and maybe they'd catch 1 guy.....everyone else just walked away. The 1 guy that got caught gets released back in Mexico...comes back the next day.

Besides....the Mexican Drug Cartels have liberated US military weapons from the Mexican Military...and now has them all over America. Machines Guns, Grenade launchers, and missile launchers.......

I'm just waiting for the Drug Cartels to speed up their territory gains in America. This is what some factions in America WANT....will justify disarming the populace. So maybe......the Federal Govt. is directly handing weapons to the drug cartels.......they've got a goal in mind.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by Erongaricuaro

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by nixie_nox

Who is supplying them?


The ATF and the rest of the federal government is supplying them.

Gunwalker has been all over the gun related media for the past 4-6 months now.

Unfortunately for anyone not reading up on the gun related media I guess this is still mystery news.

No doubt the plan was to use it as a grab for our rights as well as fuel for NA Union garbage but it has all blown up in the government face.

At least I thought it had. Apparently this scandal isnt on the radar for some and that's a shame.




Star. The "well-informed" citizens that sound-off on this issue and other Mexican Drug War issues keep missing these tidbits of news. The US government is solidly behind President Calderón's Drug War efforts in Mexico to the tune of millions of pesos while at the same time in supplying the "cartels" with guns, transporting Mexican drugs, and putting Special Forces troops in Mexico to see that all goes as planned.

Although some arrests and kills against some Mexican cartel leaders have been claimed it is doubtful there are any good statistics that show any great reduction in drug trafficking or a reduction of drugs on American streets. These Drug War efforts do produce a number of other frightening statistics, however. These have to do with the number of violent incidents that occur as a result of these efforts. One can only conclude there are larger more sinister motives to these plans being orchestrated here.

Although these serious news items that provide the recipe for this disastrous policy go by unnoticed, there is just enough of the aroma that has the knee-jerkers clamoring to bite into Mexico with US military powers. Such has become a popular suggestion with little regard for the consequences that would arise regardless of which outcome these would have. None would win them what they appear to be asking for. Worst case from my perspective, and perhaps for theirs, would eliminate the border between these two countries. Pray it never comes to that.


I'd rather the sewer that is Mexico simply be overwhelmingly eliminated off the face of the Earth via nuclear weapons.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 12:40 PM
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Gun control is a joke. It'll only make it easier for the criminals to obtain them...



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 12:40 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by blackrain17
Gun control is a joke. It'll only make it easier for the criminals to obtain them...


Gun control is not a joke. You aim, breathe in, let out half a breathe and sqeeeeeeeeeze the trigger. Practice makes perfect.

But yea, I get what you are sayin'.

Once guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns....like Chicago.

edit on 14-6-2011 by TDawgRex because: (no reason given)



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