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Many weapons used by Mexican drug gangs originate in U.S.

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posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 09:07 AM
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Many weapons used by Mexican drug gangs originate in U.S.


www.cnn.com

More than 70% of 29,284 firearms submitted to the U.S. Department of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for tracing by the Mexican government during 2009 and 2010 originated in the United States, according to the report.

(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 09:07 AM
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This is disturbing. With gun control laws being what they are, how are so many drug lords getting such rampant access to military grade weapons.

Who is supplying them? Where is the hole they are getting them from? Are they being given them? Is this a border control issue?

Or is this an excuse to put Mexico in the crosshairs?



They also want to close a provision that allows private sellers at gun shows to sell weapons without a background check.


Is this really the root of the problem? Or an excuse for gun control. I am willing to bet that most of those weapons were obtained illegally, not bought at a gun show.



www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 09:13 AM
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I have to wonder what they will do to divert attention away from this. Hmm, we will see.



Officials at the Department of Justice are in “panic mode,” according to multiple sources, as word spreads that congressional testimony next week will paint a bleak and humiliating picture of Operation Fast and Furious, the botched undercover operation that left a trail of blood from Mexico to Washington, D.C.




The operation was supposed to stem the flow of weapons from the U.S. to Mexico by allowing so-called straw buyers to purchase guns legally in the U.S. and later sell them in Mexico, usually to drug cartels.




Instead, ATF documents show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms knowingly and deliberately flooded Mexico with assault rifles. Their intent was to expose the entire smuggling organization, from top to bottom, but the operation spun out of control and supervisors refused pleas from field agents to stop it.




The first witness in Wednesday’s hearing was Sen. Charles Grassley, who described what his investigative team learned from four months of interviews and thousands of documents. He was followed by three members of Brian Terry’s family, three ATF agents and Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich, who only months ago insisted the agency did not let guns go south to Mexico, a claim contradicted by field agents in Group 7, the actual agents who ran the operation in Phoenix.


And they blame the US gun owners for the gun's in Mexico.


Read the wole thing here. www.foxnews.com...

edit on 14-6-2011 by VAPatriot because: fix link(no reason given)

edit on 14-6-2011 by VAPatriot because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 09:17 AM
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In my opinion, this is another go at grabbing our gun rights. It has been proven that the CIA and the ATF are the ones pushing the guns down to Mexico. There are many posts on this site alone pointing to these facts. But here are some links:

ATF Operation Helped Supply Guns to Mexican Drug Cartels

ATS Post relating to AFT Guns and Mexico

Project Gunrunner

By stating that we need to "tighten" our gun control laws to protect Mexico is a joke. It is simply a means to an end for this administration. They have been trying with all their might to take away our gun rights.

Let us not forget, that the ATF was formed as a collection agency if you will in the 1930s to collect taxes on firearms purchases. They were originally under the IRS, then the Dept of Treasury. They are a shoddy government agency at best. And now they are the ones sending guns down south and blaming the American people.

The biggest problem is, people don't know about this (the connection with CIA and ATF) and they will be shouting from the roof tops for more gun control. They tried a gun grab when the Jared Loughner situation happened, and that didn't work. Now they are trying this.

The 2nd Amendment gives us the "Right to Keep and Bear Arms". It is explained as almost a "natural right". One that can't be taken away. I don't think this little scheme by TPTB will work this time either.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 09:39 AM
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Don't american gun manufacturers make and sell guns legally all over the world? A lot of black market guns are in fact stolen from legal owners. I am sure that there is a lot of business between american gangbangers, and drug cartels in mexico, such as trading black market american guns, for mexican drugs. It does make sense no?



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 09:44 AM
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Well sure the numbers are showing this. The Obama Admin has been pushing "Project Gun Runner" which has been shown that it is not really about tracing the origins of, but providing the American based weapons so they can track them. Kind of screwy sounding, no?

Like the above post, this is a covert way of working towards more strict gun laws, which aside from free health care, has been the wet dream of the Democrat Party for years.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 


you bring up a good point. I would be interested to see statistics of who produces the most guns and sells them internationally, and then compare that number to the ratio of guns from makers in Mexico.

BUT

when we go into war torn and terrorist groups in the middle east, who is the main manufacturer of their guns? Is Mexico the only country that has a majority of American guns?



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by nixie_nox

Who is supplying them?


The ATF and the rest of the federal government is supplying them.

Gunwalker has been all over the gun related media for the past 4-6 months now.

Unfortunately for anyone not reading up on the gun related media I guess this is still mystery news.

No doubt the plan was to use it as a grab for our rights as well as fuel for NA Union garbage but it has all blown up in the government face.

At least I thought it had. Apparently this scandal isnt on the radar for some and that's a shame.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by DerekJR321
In my opinion, this is another go at grabbing our gun rights. It has been proven that the CIA and the ATF are the ones pushing the guns down to Mexico. There are many posts on this site alone pointing to these facts. But here are some links:

ATF Operation Helped Supply Guns to Mexican Drug Cartels

ATS Post relating to AFT Guns and Mexico

Project Gunrunner

By stating that we need to "tighten" our gun control laws to protect Mexico is a joke. It is simply a means to an end for this administration. They have been trying with all their might to take away our gun rights.

Let us not forget, that the ATF was formed as a collection agency if you will in the 1930s to collect taxes on firearms purchases. They were originally under the IRS, then the Dept of Treasury. They are a shoddy government agency at best. And now they are the ones sending guns down south and blaming the American people.

The biggest problem is, people don't know about this (the connection with CIA and ATF) and they will be shouting from the roof tops for more gun control. They tried a gun grab when the Jared Loughner situation happened, and that didn't work. Now they are trying this.

The 2nd Amendment gives us the "Right to Keep and Bear Arms". It is explained as almost a "natural right". One that can't be taken away. I don't think this little scheme by TPTB will work this time either.



The 2nd amendment was finally just ratified in 2010 so I don't see how actions like that lead you to believe that TPTB are taking away your rights.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by kro32

Originally posted by DerekJR321
In my opinion, this is another go at grabbing our gun rights. It has been proven that the CIA and the ATF are the ones pushing the guns down to Mexico. There are many posts on this site alone pointing to these facts. But here are some links:

ATF Operation Helped Supply Guns to Mexican Drug Cartels

ATS Post relating to AFT Guns and Mexico

Project Gunrunner

By stating that we need to "tighten" our gun control laws to protect Mexico is a joke. It is simply a means to an end for this administration. They have been trying with all their might to take away our gun rights.

Let us not forget, that the ATF was formed as a collection agency if you will in the 1930s to collect taxes on firearms purchases. They were originally under the IRS, then the Dept of Treasury. They are a shoddy government agency at best. And now they are the ones sending guns down south and blaming the American people.

The biggest problem is, people don't know about this (the connection with CIA and ATF) and they will be shouting from the roof tops for more gun control. They tried a gun grab when the Jared Loughner situation happened, and that didn't work. Now they are trying this.

The 2nd Amendment gives us the "Right to Keep and Bear Arms". It is explained as almost a "natural right". One that can't be taken away. I don't think this little scheme by TPTB will work this time either.



The 2nd amendment was finally just ratified in 2010 so I don't see how actions like that lead you to believe that TPTB are taking away your rights.


Really? Are you serious??

While it is unlikely that Obama and company will send agents to homes and start rounding up guns, the slow erosion of said rights is very much marching forward.
Maybe look to the fact that now, like the FBI, the ATF can create new policies regarding how and why they operate in direct violation of gun rights and laws.
They just policy and procedure their way into the erosion of.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by macman
 


Last time I checked it was still legal to own firearms or are you one of those people that want to cover your front lawn in anti-personal mines and carry rocket propelled grenades to work with you.

America will never outlaw guns however some regulation is required.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 10:29 AM
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I love this part:





Arizona gun store owners say they were explicitly told by the ATF to sell the guns, sometimes 20, 30, even up to 40 in a single day to single person.

And those orders, from at least one ATF case agent, are on audio recording.

"We would say, 'Do you (the ATF) want us to stop selling, is there something we should do here?'" Brad DeSayes, owner of J&G Gun Sales in Prescott, said. "And they would say, 'No, no, no, keep selling - just tell us after the fact.'"



Read more: www.foxnews.com...


Unbelivable!



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by kro32
reply to post by macman
 


Last time I checked it was still legal to own firearms or are you one of those people that want to cover your front lawn in anti-personal mines and carry rocket propelled grenades to work with you.

America will never outlaw guns however some regulation is required.


Is it a basic misunderstanding that is apparent?
If you look at the beginning of gun laws from start to today, you will see that it has been steadily chipping away at the 2nd amendment. To deny this really is true ignorance or just avoiding the facts.
Yes, it still is legal to own some firearms, some have been banned, some require new "fees & taxes", and the ATF gets to mandate which firearms are this or that. Thus, circumventing the Constitution. Very easy to see and understand.

And I am SO tired of the whole "What do you want rocket launchers and land mines on your front lawn". I believe that is one of the most tired and worn out talking points still being pitched.

And fail to see where "requirement" are defined within the 2nd Amendment. Please provide this.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by nixie_nox

Who is supplying them?


The ATF and the rest of the federal government is supplying them.

Gunwalker has been all over the gun related media for the past 4-6 months now.

Unfortunately for anyone not reading up on the gun related media I guess this is still mystery news.

No doubt the plan was to use it as a grab for our rights as well as fuel for NA Union garbage but it has all blown up in the government face.

At least I thought it had. Apparently this scandal isnt on the radar for some and that's a shame.




Star. The "well-informed" citizens that sound-off on this issue and other Mexican Drug War issues keep missing these tidbits of news. The US government is solidly behind President Calderón's Drug War efforts in Mexico to the tune of millions of pesos while at the same time in supplying the "cartels" with guns, transporting Mexican drugs, and putting Special Forces troops in Mexico to see that all goes as planned.

Although some arrests and kills against some Mexican cartel leaders have been claimed it is doubtful there are any good statistics that show any great reduction in drug trafficking or a reduction of drugs on American streets. These Drug War efforts do produce a number of other frightening statistics, however. These have to do with the number of violent incidents that occur as a result of these efforts. One can only conclude there are larger more sinister motives to these plans being orchestrated here.

Although these serious news items that provide the recipe for this disastrous policy go by unnoticed, there is just enough of the aroma that has the knee-jerkers clamoring to bite into Mexico with US military powers. Such has become a popular suggestion with little regard for the consequences that would arise regardless of which outcome these would have. None would win them what they appear to be asking for. Worst case from my perspective, and perhaps for theirs, would eliminate the border between these two countries. Pray it never comes to that.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by macman
 


You obviously don't know your second amendment very well. It says that people have the right to bear arms not the people have the right to bear any and all arms.

The founders did that specifically as they knew that more advanced weapons would be created in the future and Congress may have to legislate on this.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by kro32
reply to post by macman
 


You obviously don't know your second amendment very well. It says that people have the right to bear arms not the people have the right to bear any and all arms.

The founders did that specifically as they knew that more advanced weapons would be created in the future and Congress may have to legislate on this.


Oh boy. You are either a Theorist or one that was there during the creation of the 2nd Amendment.
The right does not state either that the Govt or the ATF gets to decide what firearms are allowed.
Yes, I do understand it.
It is you that does not, as you twist and contort it to fit how you want it applied.
The right to bear arms is just that. Still don't see where it states "The right to bear arms, except..........."
Nice try though. Maybe go back to the Brady Website and dust off some more tired talking points.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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You also must look at the world in which the founders lived when they wrote all this. Jefferson and his people were afraid of the government having too much control which is where the bill of rights comes from. Hamilton and his people thought the bill of rights was totally unecessary as everything was covered in the Constitution already and had a fear of people uprising. Hamilton didn't believe the average people were intelligent enough to govern themselves which is where the electoral college comes from.

This is why the second amendment allows Congress to legislate which arms are legal for the populace to own. This amendment is not specific for a very good reason.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by macman
 


Why didn't they state that you have the right to bear any and all arms? Seems like a simple thing for them to overlook.

Fact of the matter is that you can't throw this around as your Constitutional right when it specifically does not give you that right and can easily be argued down per the words of the very document you cite.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by kro32


This is why the second amendment allows Congress to legislate which arms are legal for the populace to own. This amendment is not specific for a very good reason.

No, it is not detailed because they did not want the Fed Govt dabbling in taking away certain items of the rights.

"The right to bear Arms".
This is very simple. It is not "The right to bear Arms, with these exceptions and/or rules"



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by kro32
reply to post by macman
 


Why didn't they state that you have the right to bear any and all arms? Seems like a simple thing for them to overlook.

Fact of the matter is that you can't throw this around as your Constitutional right when it specifically does not give you that right and can easily be argued down per the words of the very document you cite.


You argue the idea of Positive liberties vs. Negative liberties.
You are obviously against most rights, and think that the Govt knows best.
The creation did not have to get detailed, because it is an all or none statement.
The right to bear Arms.



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