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'Major Result' on Sunspot Cycle to be Announced Tuesday

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posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 02:32 PM
Nasa says - "expect there to be fewer sunspots for some decades to come"..

Nasa means- There is going to be more activity on the sun than you can imagine! lol

Not really,
But 'knowing' nasa..

Soo incompetent you can almost rest assured that what they say is going to be wrong, and things will turn out just the opposite.

posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 06:10 PM

Originally posted by Ahmose
Nasa says - "expect there to be fewer sunspots for some decades to come"..

Nasa means- There is going to be more activity on the sun than you can imagine! lol

Not really,
But 'knowing' nasa..

Soo incompetent you can almost rest assured that what they say is going to be wrong, and things will turn out just the opposite.

Actually, as much as it pains me to say it, they might just be right this time. In spite of anything James Hanson says, on a geological scale we're due for a cooling period. Even the CRU admits it has been cooling for the last 14 years.

Kind of a bummer when you consider what that means globally, lots of people will starve if it happens.

The biggest falsehood in Gores movie was his co2 Vs temperature graph, when you look at it you see that the co2 rise occurs after the warming, 700 years after. A warmer climate produces more co2, and you see more vegetation, which needs it to even grow.

Bottom line, we can't control climate, it's stupid to even suggest we could. We can affect weather on a regional scale, but not the global climate, and not by limiting co2.

posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 01:11 AM

Originally posted by Phage

A Little Ice Age is not as plainly evident in temperature estimates for Western Greenland (panel d), reinforcing the notion that the collapse of Norse civilization in Greenland was not simply a response to cooling temperatures.

Even the recent so called Global Warming wasn't as evident all over the world at the same time. In fact the recent Global Warming started back around the 1600s as the Earth started to slowly recuperate from the LIA.

Clegg et al. (2010) conducted a high-resolution analysis of midge assemblages found in the sediments of Moose Lake (61°22.45'N, 143°35.93'W) in the Wrangell-St. Elias National Park and Preserve of south-central Alaska (USA), based on data obtained from cores removed from the lake bottom in the summer of AD 2000 and a midge-to-temperature transfer function that yielded mean July temperatures (TJuly) for the past six thousand years.
The results of the study are portrayed in the accompanying figure, where it can be seen, in the words of Clegg et al., that "a piecewise linear regression analysis identifies a significant change point at ca 4000 years before present (cal BP)," with "a decreasing trend after this point." And from 2500 cal BP to the present, there is a clear multi-centennial oscillation about the declining trend line, with its peaks and valleys defining the temporal locations of the Roman Warm Period, the Dark Ages Cold Period, the Medieval Warm Period, the Little Ice Age -- during which the coldest temperatures of the entire interglacial or Holocene were reached -- and, finally, the start of the Current Warm Period, which is still not expressed to any significant degree compared to the Medieval and Roman Warm Periods.

Originally posted by Phage
The question was

what is to be expected in a so called "little ice age"?
My answer was that it would depend on where you are. The climatological effects are not consistent. That was my point.

And neither has been the recent warming. It didn't suddenly happen all over the world at once, and it hasn't been constant all over at once... In fact the warming was more prominent in areas FAR AWAY from pollution sources, which in itself should be clear evidence that atmospheric CO2 is/was not the reason.

Originally posted by Phage
Can you point out where I have ever claimed that AGW is a fact? Can you point out where I have ever claimed it is poppycock?

Heck now you are going to claim you haven't been quoting scientists like Jones, Mann et al when it comes to AGW?

posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 01:16 AM
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

And neither has been the recent warming.
How does that make my answer to the question which I was replying to incorrect?

Heck now you are going to claim you haven't been quoting scientists like Jones, Mann et al when it comes to AGW?
Do I have to ask the question again for you to answer it?

edit on 6/28/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 01:40 AM

Originally posted by Essan

No it wasn't.

Really?... You should know differently by now, after all you have been shown dozens of peer-reviewed research over the years that shows the current warming was NOT warmer than other warm events such as the Medieval Warm, and Roman Warm periods.

The above graphic is from an analisys of sediment from the Wrangell-St. Elias National Park and Preserve of south-central Alaska (USA)

BTW CWP stands for "Current Warm Period" and you can see that both the Medieval, and Roman Warm Periods were warmer than the most current warm period.

The following is a graph from the Sargasso Sea Temperature reconstruction.

Although this article explains that evidence of the RWP in Asi is being disputed, it does say that and I quote:

Moreover, the impact of the RWP to the East Asian ancient history is not clear also because there were no notable political factions in all East Asia except in some parts of China.

This bears great relevance because the RWP weather events weren't reported as much as other Climate Change events.

However if you take a look at this graph, which show the Climate Changes in East Asia for the past 1,800 years you can see that at least part of the Medieval Warm Period was warmer even than the present, and they even mention it.

II.2.3 The Medieval Warm Period
After the DACP was another warm period that continued until c. 1350 A.D., and it was wet and warm again like the RWP. Although some scientists argue that actually there was no significant warm climate during the MWP in East Asia, it seems evident that at least the 12th century was warmer than any other periods - even warmer than today-discussed on this paper. (8)

On-line Publication Documentation System for Stockholm University
Full DescriptionUpdate record

Publication type: Article in journal (Reviewed scientific)
Author: Grudd, H (Department of Physical Geography and Quaternary Geology)
Title: Torneträsk tree-ring width and density ad 500–2004: a test of climatic sensitivity and a new 1500-year reconstruction of north Fennoscandian summers
In: Climate Dynamics
Publisher: Springer, Berlin / Heidelberg
Volume: 31
Pages: 843-857
Year: 2008
Available: 2009-01-30
ISSN: 1432-0894
Department: Department of Physical Geography and Quaternary Geology
Language: English [en]
Subject: Physical geography, Climatology
Abstract: This paper presents updated tree-ring width (TRW) and maximum density (MXD) from Torneträsk in northern Sweden, now covering the period ad 500–2004. By including data from relatively young trees for the most recent period, a previously noted decline in recent MXD is eliminated. Non-climatological growth trends in the data are removed using Regional Curve Standardization (RCS), thus producing TRW and MXD chronologies with preserved low-frequency variability. The chronologies are calibrated using local and regional instrumental climate records. A bootstrapped response function analysis using regional climate data shows that tree growth is forced by April–August temperatures and that the regression weights for MXD are much stronger than for TRW. The robustness of the reconstruction equation is verified by independent temperature data and shows that 63–64% of the instrumental inter-annual variation is captured by the tree-ring data. This is a significant improvement compared to previously published reconstructions based on tree-ring data from Torneträsk. A divergence phenomenon around ad 1800, expressed as an increase in TRW that is not paralleled by temperature and MXD, is most likely an effect of major changes in the density of the pine population at this northern tree-line site. The bias introduced by this TRW phenomenon is assessed by producing a summer temperature reconstruction based on MXD exclusively. The new data show generally higher temperature estimates than previous reconstructions based on Torneträsk tree-ring data. The late-twentieth century, however, is not exceptionally warm in the new record: On decadal-to-centennial timescales, periods around ad 750, 1000, 1400, and 1750 were equally warm, or warmer. The 200-year long warm period centered on ad 1000 was significantly warmer than the late-twentieth century (p < 0.05) and is supported by other local and regional paleoclimate data. The new tree-ring evidence from Torneträsk suggests that this “Medieval Warm Period” in northern Fennoscandia was much warmer than previously recognized.

P. D. Tyson, W. Karlén, K. Holmgren and G. A. Heiss (in press) The Little Ice Age and Medieval Warming in South Africa. South African Journal of Science.


The Little Ice Age and Medieval Warming in South Africa

P. D. Tyson1, W. Karlén2, K. Holmgren2 and G. A. Heiss3.

1Climatology Research Group, University of the Witwatersrand
2Department of Physical Geography, Stockholm University
3Geomar, Wischhofstr. 1-3, 24148 Kiel, Germany; present address: German Advisory Council on Global Change (WBGU), P.O. Box 120161, 27515 Bremerhaven, Germany, E-mail:


The Little Ice Age, from around 1300 to 1800, and medieval warming, from before 1000 to around 1300 in South Africa, are shown to be distinctive features of the regional climate of the last millennium. The proxy climate record has been constituted from oxygen and carbon isotope and colour density data obtained from a well-dated stalagmite derived from Cold Air Cave in the Makapansgat Valley.
The climate of the interior of South Africa was around 1oC cooler in the Little Ice Age and may have been over 3°C higher than at present during the extremes of the medieval warm period. It was variable throughout the millennium, but considerably more so during the warming of the eleventh to thirteenth centuries. Extreme events in the record show distinct teleconnections with similar events in other parts of the world, in both the northern and southern hemispheres. The lowest temperature events recorded during the Little Ice Age in South Africa are shown to be coeval with the Maunder and Sporer Minima in solar irradiance. The medieval warming is shown to have been coincided with the cosmogenic 10Be and 14C isotopic maxima recorded in tree rings elsewhere in the world during the Medieval Maximum in solar radiation.

Evidence for the existence of the medieval warm period in China
Journal Climatic Change
Publisher Springer Netherlands
ISSN 0165-0009 (Print) 1573-1480 (Online)
Issue Volume 26, Numbers 2-3 / March, 1994
DOI 10.1007/BF01092419
Pages 289-297
Subject Collection Earth and Environmental Science
SpringerLink Date Monday, February 07, 2005
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Evidence for the existence of the medieval warm period in China
De'Er Zhang1

(1) Chinese Academy of Meteorological Sciences, Baishiqiaolu No. 46, 100081 Beijing, China

Abstract The collected documentary records of the cultivation of citrus trees andBoehmeria nivea (a perennial herb) have been used to produce distribution maps of these plants for the eighth, twelfth and thirteenth centuries A.D. The northern boundary of citrus andBoehmeria nivea cultivation in the thirteenth century lay to the north of the modern distribution. During the last 1000 years, the thirteenth-century boundary was the northernmost. This indicates that this was the warmest time in that period. On the basis of knowledge of the climatic conditions required for planting these species, it can be estimated that the annual mean temperature in south Henan Province in the thirteenth century was 0.9–1.0°C higher than at present. A new set of data for the latest snowfall date in Hangzhou from A.D. 1131 to 1264 indicates that this cannot be considered a cold period, as previously believed.

Decline Of Roman And Byzantine Empires 1,400 Years Ago May Have Been Driven By Climate Change

ScienceDaily (Dec. 6, 2008) — The decline of the Roman and Byzantine Empires in the Eastern Mediterranean more than 1,400 years ago may have been driven by unfavorable climate changes.

Based on chemical signatures in a piece of calcite from a cave near Jerusalem, a team of American and Israeli geologists pieced together a detailed record of the area's climate from roughly 200 B.C. to 1100 A.D. Their analysis, to be reported in an upcoming issue of the journal Quaternary Research, reveals increasingly dry weather from 100 A.D. to 700 A.D. that coincided with the fall of both Roman and Byzantine rule in the region.

In fact, as I have pointed out before with other research, the Earth has been warmer than during the 20th, or the beginning of the 21st century, yet CO2 levels in the atmosphere were much lower than now.

Such dramatic Climate Changes occurred globally, not just in one area, or just in the northern hemisphere.

Late Holocene Environmental and Hydrologic Conditions in Northwestern Florida Derived from Seasonally Resolved Profiles of δ18O and Sr/Ca of Fossil Bivalves.
Elliot, M.; de Menocal, P. B.; Linsley, B. K.; Howe, S. S.; Guilderson, T.; Quitmyer, I. R.
AA(Edinburgh University, Dept. Geology and Geophysics, West Mains Road, Edinburgh, EH9 3JW United Kingdom ;, AB(Lamont Doherty Earth Observatory, Route 9W, Palisades, NY 10964 ;, AC(University at Albany, 1400 Washington Ave, Albany, NY 12222 ;, AD(Laurence Livermore National Laboratory, 7000 East Ave, Livermore, CA 94550 ;, AE(Laurence Livermore National Laboratory, 7000 East Ave, Livermore, CA 94550 ; ), AF(Florida Museum of Natural History, Dickinson Hall, Gainesville, FL 32611 ; )
American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2002, abstract #PP72A-0429
Publication Date:
AGU Keywords:
3344 Paleoclimatology, 4215 Climate and interannual variability (3309), 4227 Diurnal, seasonal, and annual cycles, 4870 Stable isotopes, 4875 Trace elements
Bibliographic Code:

We reconstruct environmental conditions of coastal Northwestern Florida from combined measurements of δ18O and Sr/Ca of fossil marine bivalves deposited in an archeological site during the late Holocene period. We first investigated the environmental controls of seasonally resolved records of δ18O and Sr/Ca of modern Mercenaria mercenaria and Mercenaria campesiensis collected live from five coastal sites along the east coast of North America. Seasonal profiles were obtained by sub-sampling the incremental growth layers of aragonite and were compared with in situ historical records of temperature and salinity. We show that these bivalves precipitate their shell in isotopic equilibrium with the water in which they grew and that the δ18O records are not affected by variations in growth rate. Winter growth appears to be interrupted or strongly reduced below water temperatures ranging from 7 to 18° C, depending on latitude. The annual average δ18O decreases with latitude, reflecting both the parallel trend of freshwater δ18O with latitude over the North American continent and the reduced winter growth rate. The Sr/Ca records of the 5 modern bivalves also exhibit seasonal variations can be correlated to water temperature. However, contrary to corals, the Sr/Ca ratio is considerably lower than the average sea water Sr/Ca composition and is positively correlated to the water temperature. We dated and measured the δ18O and Sr/Ca of 30 fossil M. campesiensis from an archeological site close to Cedar Key, in the Gulf of Mexico. Accelerator Mass Spectrometry 14C dates obtained for each shell show ages which cluster between 1100 to 1400 and 2300 to 2600 14C years BP corresponding approximately to two historical warm periods known as the Medieval Warm Period (~ 1300-900AD) and the Roman Warm Period (~ 250AD-200BC). The average annual and summer Sr/Ca of 4 fossil shells are higher than that of modern bivalves from the same location suggesting that annual coastal water temperatures were 3 to 4° C warmer than today. The bulk δ18O values show a marked trend towards more positive values. 24 fossil shells have bulk δ18O values 0.2permil to 0.7permil more positive than modern bivalves from the same location. These results suggest that the coastal waters off northwest Florida were warmer and less saline compared to today and attest of considerable differences of the regional climate and hydrological balance during the Medieval Warm Period and Roman Warm Period.

But hey according to Essan "it wasn't", and of course he gives no real evidence and he gives no conclusive proof that the dozens of research are wrong which say the contrary to his own "beliefs"...

As to what could have been the reason for Climate Changes such as "Global Warming":

Science News

Antarctic Science (2003), 15:2:173-173 Cambridge University Press
Copyright © Antarctic Science Ltd 2003


Galactic energy and its role in a changing Earth


Proposed climate change mechanisms are many and various but generally attributable to our part of the solar system. They usually focus on temperature changes driven either by local processes such as variations in oceanic circulation, or, levels of atmospheric greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide, or by global processes such as variations in received solar energy linked to changes in the parameters of the Earth's rotation and orbit or solar activity. However, two recent papers have suggested that we may need to look outside the Earth System and even outside our local planetary system for the possible origins of climate change, both on a decadal scale and over longer timescales of hundreds of millions of years. In each case, the galactic cosmic ray flux and its potential effects on cloud formation is considered to be the culprit.


The above is just one of several peer-review research and scientists who have linked Solar System and Galactic events as very probable causes of the Climate Changes we have been experiencing.

Originally posted by Essan
Edit: which doesn't change the fact that the LIA started in the N Atlantic regions and only reached the S Hemisphere 200 years later. Whatever you god tells you.
edit on 26-6-2011 by Essan because: (no reason given)

Oh we go again... Where did I mention god or God, or Gods, or Goddesses in these threads?... Can you actually STAY ON TOPIC instead of going off tangent?... but I guess you can't...

edit on 28-6-2011 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 02:24 AM
BTW, to reiterate what the AGW scientists, and even reporters have been trying to do for decades concerning the Medieval Warm Period, and other past Climate Changes, here is a video of Dr David Deming's statement to the US Senate Committee on Environment & Public Works on December 6, 2006. Dr Deming reveals that in 1995 a leading scientist emailed him saying "We have to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period"...

BTW, do watch how at the end of the above video it shows, and reports the research from at least 787 scientists ALL of which support the fact that Climate Changes like the Medieval Warm Period WERE GLOBAL IN NATURE...
edit on 28-6-2011 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 02:53 AM
IMO, and in the opinion of many scientists if the Sun's activity goes down as much as it is believed it could, we are in for some really bad times. Not only would Earth's magnetic Field weaken, which means even moderate solar activity would affect us more, but in essence we would be going into another LIA event, or possibly worse.

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