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7-6 huge CME

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posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 10:25 PM
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What would happen if it was in earth direction ?

The Sun activity been way off the charts, lately , its just a question of time that one of this big cme's goes in our direction.




posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 10:29 PM
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Do you have a chart? Or an article you could direct us to? I don't understand where you're trying to go with this thread.

There are a lot of other posts here on ATS about this, as well.



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 10:29 PM
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Can we get some more information from you? It would be great if you could please provide additional information in relation to your claims. Thanks.



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 10:30 PM
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If it was a really big one, like in 1859 then it would knock out all satellites and most transformers decimating the current electrical grid.

The power will be out, and probably not coming back on any time soon....but humans will adapt, and life will go on.

Is 7-6 a date prediction? Are you possibly posting this in the wrong forum?



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 10:32 PM
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He's talking about the CME on june 7th. Remember USA is pretty much the only country that uses 6-7-2011, instead of 7-6-2011.
It still doesn't explain why the OP posted this almost a week later after there have already been threads about this.



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by grinitagi
The Sun activity been way off the charts, lately



Which charts are these then?
Be specific.



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by grinitagi
What would happen if it was in earth direction ?

The Sun activity been way off the charts, lately , its just a question of time that one of this big cme's goes in our direction.

You are completely wrong.. The sun is actually in the most inactive cycle in at least a century.
It only seems active because we are now moving towards a new maximum after years of solar minima.



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by Paroxysm
If it was a really big one, like in 1859 then it would knock out all satellites and most transformers decimating the current electrical grid.


Mostly it would only get the long transmission lines, so the really high voltage cross country ones might fry from the geomagnetic heave. Not that it has to be that way, mind you, it's just cheaper to design that way so they did.

As far as the satellites, that's why you paid for HAARP, innit? One of the 'real' uses for HAARP is to bleed off particles from a CME or HAND from the inner magnetosphere. Although that's transitioning to satellites - you get more bang for your buck if you do it from orbit than if you do it from Gakona or Siple Station.



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 11:03 PM
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reply to post by grinitagi
 


What would have happened if that had been directed toward Earth with full force? Well.... as it is, that was only a little M Class CME that actually escaped the Sun's gravity well, but looking up the 1859 Carrington Event should give a good picture of what we're looking at if this solar cycle continues this way.

Aurora's could be seen as far south as San Salvador and telegraph systems ran sans batteries as well as arcing badly enough to start brush fires in different spots across North America. In the modern world? We'll be without functional power in most areas of Earth for 4-9 MONTHS while they literally build parts of the electrical generation grid from scratch. There are some major parts of the system that don't have spares because of the size or complexity of the equipment. No biggy....unless the entire system is zapped at once as a repeat of 1859 absolutely would do.



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000There are some major parts of the system that don't have spares because of the size or complexity of the equipment. No biggy....unless the entire system is zapped at once as a repeat of 1859 absolutely would do.



The only reason that the Carrington event was so spectacular was that the telegraph system was made up of long unbroken metallic conductors, with poor insulation, and used the earth ground as a return.

These days the soft parts are the long cross country UHV lines, which can pick up more than enough geomagnetic heave current to walk the transformers up their B-H curve, saturate the cores, and destroy them with primary current when you get the inductive collapse.

Some medium haul lines would also be a problem. But not the entire system. And, if you've got time to react to it, you can safe the long lines, but it would be a mess - the power distribution system's a hodgepodge.



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 11:46 PM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 


My estimation of damage is actually going more on a hypothetical attack scenario run several years ago on what would happen if the electrical grid was hit at certain key points (It only required about 6 points) at the same time. This was a terrorist scenario but the method and targeting would be duplicated quite nicely by the air itself carrying enough direct charge to put current into lines that shouldn't have it or over-powering internal equipment that is very unforgiving about surges. The whole problem with a CME of that colossal magnitude is that the air ITSELF becomes the source of the power surge, which means suppressors are worthless. You have the charge hitting lines on both sides of whatever you've put into the system to stop a conventional jolt.

Military systems are largely hardened against this due to the concern about a close nuclear blast which would have a very similar effect in the end result and method of damage, but the public grid has never been hardened like that. Like so many other things in this world, no one thought to spend a dollar on something with a 1:million set of odds it ever actually happens. Well.... Ooops.. We just saw what 1:million will look like if Earth is just a hair different in relation to the Sun's position when a slightly bigger one of those lights off.

Then again....They had the same attitude about the idea that 4 reactors would fail at the same location, at one time, in partial or full meltdowns. 1:million. Recent years seem to be chalk full of events with LONG odds aganst their happening. I'm not betting against this one.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 12:02 AM
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No off-chart activity to me, at least not for the ssn


www.solen.info...

edit on 14-6-2011 by intergalactic fire because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 12:04 AM
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electric grid, disruption...blah.. the beauty of being in Kenya is that very few townsfolk would notice. Life will go on as normal. We keep having the electric grid going off on us almost every week in different places..so i figure worse case scenario..no facebook



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by intergalactic fire
 


hmm.. there IS a chart..hmmm.. is there a moon chart ?



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by kassych
reply to post by intergalactic fire
 


hmm.. there IS a chart..hmmm.. is there a moon chart ?

yes there is, but that chart is waaay off



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Bedlam
 


My estimation of damage is actually going more on a hypothetical attack scenario run several years ago on what would happen if the electrical grid was hit at certain key points (It only required about 6 points) at the same time.


Yeah, we went over that one back in the '80s in 'breaking people's infrastructure' class. The US power grid is sort of non-robust in certain places. They don't seem to be all that worried about it, which always seemed odd. It turns out a p----ed off guy with a 50 cal can shut the US down, if he knows what and where to shoot and can move pretty fast to hit the key points before they put guards up. A half dozen guys with 50 cals could do it in an hour.

In Germany, they have armed guards at key substations, because they take it more seriously.



This was a terrorist scenario but the method and targeting would be duplicated quite nicely by the air itself carrying enough direct charge to put current into lines that shouldn't have it or over-powering internal equipment that is very unforgiving about surges. The whole problem with a CME of that colossal magnitude is that the air ITSELF becomes the source of the power surge, which means suppressors are worthless. You have the charge hitting lines on both sides of whatever you've put into the system to stop a conventional jolt.


Naw. Not at all. What the CME does is cause a geomagnetic heave. That induces low frequency (essentially DC) current into long lines, which ends up in the transformers. Transformers, especially the UHV ones on long lines, do not want to see a DC offset. If one of any scale at all exists, the transformer's core will move up its B-H curve and saturate. Once the core saturates, you get inductive collapse - the transformer quits being a transformer and becomes a short circuit, and the primary current blows it to bits. There's nothing going on with the air.

Another aspect of geomagnetic heave is that if you have long metallic conductors with opens on one end or the other, especially if you are using the ground as a return, ala the telegraph lines of the 1800's, the heave will induce a high voltage to ground on the line and arc through the insulation thus starting the fires described. If you have a relatively low impedance circuit like the power transmission lines, instead of a voltage it shows up as a current.

Think of the lines as acting like a current transformer. If you leave them open, you get arcs, if you run them through a low impedance load, you get a current.



Military systems are largely hardened against this due to the concern about a close nuclear blast which would have a very similar effect in the end result and method of damage, but the public grid has never been hardened like that. Like so many other things in this world, no one thought to spend a dollar on something with a 1:million set of odds it ever actually happens. Well.... Ooops.. We just saw what 1:million will look like if Earth is just a hair different in relation to the Sun's position when a slightly bigger one of those lights off.


A CME only shares the geomagnetic heave component with a HAND. A high altitude nuke that induces an EMP has a geo heave PLUS a fast time constant wide bandwidth radio wave burst from the Compton effect. CMEs do not have Compton effects.

Shielding against a nuke EMP takes more effort. You could fix the power grid to be immune in a few years with probably less than a billion in expenditure, they could have designed it to be immune but didn't. It won't be an issue until they get hit once.

Again, they can guard against it if they get notice from the solar observation sats in time by shutting the lines down, but it would be disruptive and cause widespread power outages, so they won't react fast enough and it'll be a mess.



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