Smile: We DO Have Advocates Working in Favor of the People.

reply to post by kro32

I anxiously await your examples of this.

You haven't read the OP??

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by kro32

 

I anxiously await your examples of this.

You haven't read the OP??

I have read the original post as well as the patriot act and I can say with conviction that you have not lost a single right afforded you by the Constitution. Unless you happen to be a terrorist.

As I said before they might be bending some things but sometimes situations require the government to do that and the Constitution allows for it by not being specific for every circumstance that will ever arise. Abraham Lincoln instituted martial law on the people and allowed the arrest and detention of anyone without court proceedings during the Civil War because the events at that time dictated he do so.

This war with terror is also dictating the government to take steps to prevent further attacks on the American people and so far has been successful. You hear about how your rights are being stripped away but you don't hear about all the plots they've broken up or people they've stopped before they had a chance to act.

As far as your rights or liberty's you still have them. The police can't just walk in your house and search without a warrant, they are not going to be secretly tapping your phones, you are not going to be arrested tomorrow and detained for no reason. Unless your a terrorist of course which i'm sure your not.

well reading this thread we all know who are the advocates of the people and who arent.

reply to post by kro32

I have read the original post as well as the patriot act and I can say with conviction that you have not lost a single right afforded you by the Constitution. Unless you happen to be a terrorist.

Great, so give us the Government's definition of a "Terrorist"..

Really good opinions. Everyone is pretty much right in some respect:

1). The constitution gets defecated on.
2). The constitution gets upheld.
3). Our rights are violated.
4). Our rights are fought for.

Absolutely- no doubt the constitution has been trampled on, our rights are being violated, and there is so much injustice.

I just want people to not feel hopeless and that things can work and have worked.

Here are some recent examples off the top of my head concerning decisions to protect our rights, even if it is not always popular:

I wanted to post some specific examples of how things CAN be changed.

1). 2nd Amendment Success.

Gun lobby victory as every American's right to bear arms upheld by ruling.

Supreme Court Upholds Broad Reach of Gun Rights.

Its general finding – that all states must comply with the second amendment to the constitution – is likely to have a sweeping impact on local gun laws, particularly in inner-city areas.

A lot of the larger American cities had so many restrictions on guns. Those are not being deemed a violation of our rights.

2). A Success for States Rights.

Arizona Immigration Law Upheld by Supreme Court.

Judges back law that penalizes firms hiring illegal immigrants despite civil rights challenge and condemnation by Obama. The US supreme court has upheld an Arizona law allowing the state to shut down businesses that hire illegal immigrants, a ruling arising from the fierce national debate on immigration policy.

This was after action by high political officials to squash it. But Arizona won.

3). Free Speech

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled recently that the protests by the WBC as ugly as they may seem, are protected under the First Amendment’s free speech clause...

Free Speech Upheld

...Democracy only works well when it works fully. If free speech is restricted for some groups it will inevitably be restricted for others over time. The funeral protesters are cruel, insensitive, misguided and in the estimation of most Christians wrong for what they do, but their right to free speech no matter how objectionable is constitutionally protected.

Don't get me wrong- these people are vile and an embarrassment. The article sums it up very well. Their behavior is repugnant but the laws of free speech were not created to protect popular speech. As much as I secretly wish this group could be made to shut up and go away, I do understand it is a very slippery slope.



Yes? No? Yes, things feel totally doomed right now and there is no way things can keep going on the way they are. Our nation is in trouble. Even if we ignore this issue for a while, there is still the mess of our economy to think about.

I know my opinion on this isn't that popular and that's OK! lol I'm more prone to doom threads, personally. But as long as it gets people to at least reconsider all is not lost, maybe there is a chance?

As another member said, our biggest set back is our own apathy and hopelessness.

Thanks for posting OP. I watched a video posted on godlikeproductions today regarding a supposed "false flag" alien invasion on 9th Sept 2011 - whether believable or not - he made the connection that that the 9/11 events created a mental block which allowed all of these laws to be passed whilst the collective mind was effectively controlled from these traumatic events. It did actually strike a chord with me ....,
Anyways, for what it's worth - this individual has asked everyone who viewed his video to pass along the message that the next false flag was an alien invasion was on 9/9 2011 ... being designed to produce the same sort of mind block experience ... But if that people were AWARE then it would NOT have the same sort of mind control effect...

I'm often guilty of derailing threads with logic I know.

However i'm a very strong advocate for the Constitution and Freedoms and Liberty's but I also don't allow myself to become swept up in hype or disinformation like alot of others do.

I would love to see the patriot act repealed but I also know that having it isn't going to make Congress have Constitution burning parties in the house either. Congress is not out to strip Americans of what the Constitution provides and why would they? The NWO?

That's a nice conspiracy but it's just that and nothing more. People forget that those in office eventually return to normal society and are affected by the same laws they passed while in office so why they would want to restrict themselves just makes no sense.

They may be very misguided and be making some horrible decisions but they are not being controlled to make you a slave.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by kro32

 

I have read the original post as well as the patriot act and I can say with conviction that you have not lost a single right afforded you by the Constitution. Unless you happen to be a terrorist.

Great, so give us the Government's definition of a "Terrorist"..

"[An] act of terrorism, means any activity that (A) involves a violent act or an act dangerous to human life that is a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or of any State; and (B) appears to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping."

(United States Code Congressional and Administrative News, 98th Congress, Second Session, 1984, Oct. 19, volume 2; par. 3077, 98 STAT. 2707 [West Publishing Co., 1984])

reply to post by kro32

I'm often guilty of derailing threads with logic I know.

I beg to differ..
Don't flatter yourself, it's very unbecoming..

reply to post by kro32


No mate, I asked you for the Government's definition of a "Terrorist", not a Terrorist act..

I don't see any meaningful change in Americas future unless you call a broadened police state, much more intrusive surveillance and eventually "reeducation camps" for dissidents and malcontents, more corruption and a state sponsored corporate oligarchy.

For any positive change to take place; it needs to come from a committed youth culture like we see in the ME.
Bored, underemployed young men and women in the streets willing to risk life and limb to bring about change.
I just don't see that happening in the US; simply to many diversions [wii, porn, sports, drugs and c2h5oh etc.] and absolutely no commitment that was seen in the 60s and even that movement was quashed, quite easily with two words, "dirty hippies" to brand anyone that looked outside the corporate operating system as lazy and threatening. A term still used today to disparage anything counter culture.

In actuality Americans don't want freedom; they want the fantasy of security and mindless entertainment.

Like Version100 said "bread and circuses"

It's not like the erosion of freedom wasn't expertly planned. The architects of this travesty on the American people are still around and even more powerful than ever, though not in the lime light. Look no further than the neocons and the PNAC. www.sourcewatch.org...

Many of us here at ATS warned of the danger [most of them gone or banned] but we were called tulip walkers, terrorist sympathizers, unpatriotic, socialist, communists, people like you and worse.

I'd like to see some change! Who has a plan and the guts to actually step away from the computer and actually do something?

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by kro32

 

No mate, I asked you for the Government's definition of a "Terrorist", not a Terrorist act..

Well using logic I would assume that anyone creating a terroist act would be labled a terrorist wouldn't you think?

Of course I could be wrong

reply to post by kro32


Not sure where to begin here. lol

Can't knock down your door without a warrant? What about the recent events in Indiana concerning police entering without a warrant?

Fortunately, the people are fighting it.

And your point about 'nobody is hassled unless you're a terrorist.'

First of all, as I said in the OP, the definition of terrorist gets looser and looser. New groups are being labeled as terrorist organizations ALL the time who have nothing to do with terrorism.

And you don't have to be a terrorist to be violated at the airport.

I do COMPLETELY see your point about how the government can't win: If they stop the attacks, we cry about rights violations. If they don't, we ask why the government doesn't do something.

That is a point I have pondered for a while and still never came to a good solution in my mind. But I do believe, as the OP mentions, we cannot trade liberty with security because there really is no way to guarantee safety in this life.

Originally posted by kro32

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by kro32

 

No mate, I asked you for the Government's definition of a "Terrorist", not a Terrorist act..

Well using logic I would assume that anyone creating a terroist act would be labled a terrorist wouldn't you think?
Of course I could be wrong

I'd say you are WAY off the mark and should do some more research before posting how you use "logic"..
I asked you for the "Goverment's" definition of a "Terrorist", NOT a logical definition.
The fact that the two definitions are so far apart pretty much proves my point and blows your "logic" out the door.

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by kro32

 

Not sure where to begin here. lol

Can't knock down your door without a warrant? What about the recent events in Indiana concerning police entering without a warrant?

Fortunately, the people are fighting it.

And your point about 'nobody is hassled unless you're a terrorist.'

First of all, as I said in the OP, the definition of terrorist gets looser and looser. New groups are being labeled as terrorist organizations ALL the time who have nothing to do with terrorism.

And you don't have to be a terrorist to be violated at the airport.

I do COMPLETELY see your point about how the government can't win: If they stop the attacks, we cry about rights violations. If they don't, we ask why the government doesn't do something.

That is a point I have pondered for a while and still never came to a good solution in my mind. But I do believe, as the OP mentions, we cannot trade liberty with security because there really is no way to guarantee safety in this life.

I understand that the Constitution is violated all the time as it was in Indiana. The courts will also decide that too if they evidence shows that. Since the country was founded there have always been cases in court with regards to people violating the Constitution so that has nothing to do with today or the patriot act as it's always happened.

I agree that who can be labled a terrorist needs to be watched as we all know that the government will keep going unless they are reigned in and we've already seen a number of Congressmen bring up this very issue so I don't think it's going to get out of control. It would be a very popular issue to run on in my opinion anyways so some future politician may use that as his talking points.

If it's keeping the terrorists at bay for the moment than I have no problem with it.

reply to post by kro32

I have read the original post as well as the patriot act and I can say with conviction that you have not lost a single right afforded you by the Constitution. Unless you happen to be a terrorist.

There is not a single Constitution within the United States, state or federal, that "affords" anyone rights. This ignorant view of rights and the enumeration in the Constitution, (See the Ninth Amendment), explains the capriciousness of your following remark, which is to qualify your first assertion and admit that, at the very least, "terrorists" are having their rights trampled upon by the United States.

Long before the 9-11 event, local, state, and federal governments within the United States have been denying and disparaging rights of individuals. Indeed, given this nation was steeped in slavery in its beginning, this nation has a long history of denying and disparaging individual rights. Either people can see what is self evident, or they will insist on turning a blind eye to it. Turning a blind eye to the self evident, doesn't make it any less self evident.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by kro32

 

I have read the original post as well as the patriot act and I can say with conviction that you have not lost a single right afforded you by the Constitution. Unless you happen to be a terrorist.

There is not a single Constitution within the United States, state or federal, that "affords" anyone rights. This ignorant view of rights and the enumeration in the Constitution, (See the Ninth Amendment), explains the capriciousness of your following remark, which is to qualify your first assertion and admit that, at the very least, "terrorists" are having their rights trampled upon by the United States.

Long before the 9-11 event, local, state, and federal governments within the United States have been denying and disparaging rights of individuals. Indeed, given this nation was steeped in slavery in its beginning, this nation has a long history of denying and disparaging individual rights. Either people can see what is self evident, or they will insist on turning a blind eye to it. Turning a blind eye to the self evident, doesn't make it any less self evident.

Read Amendments 2,4,5, 6, just for a start.

Kind of mentions rights for people specifically.

reply to post by kro32

I understand that the Constitution is violated all the time as it was in Indiana. The courts will also decide that too if they evidence shows that. Since the country was founded there have always been cases in court with regards to people violating the Constitution so that has nothing to do with today or the patriot act as it's always happened.

The Government appointed Judges??
Isn't that like leaving the Fox to guard the Hen House ??

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by kro32

 

I understand that the Constitution is violated all the time as it was in Indiana. The courts will also decide that too if they evidence shows that. Since the country was founded there have always been cases in court with regards to people violating the Constitution so that has nothing to do with today or the patriot act as it's always happened.

The Government appointed Judges??
Isn't that like leaving the Fox to guard the Hen House ??

I understand your point fully but there are many examples of the judicial system holding up the Constitution when it has been violated and i'm sure you know this.

reply to post by kro32

I understand your point fully but there are many examples of the judicial system holding up the Constitution when it has been violated and i'm sure you know this.

And probably just as many where they haven't..
The point being, there should be NO examples of violations making it past the Court..