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How strong is the M1M2 armor?

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posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 10:33 PM
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The Merkava is 65 tons, lighter then the Abrams while having more internal space and being bigger. Thus it can't have more armor.




posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Does any other county besides the US use the Hellfire missile or TOW's? Right now all we have to worry about is RPG's unless we go up against a modern military.


[edit on 8-8-2004 by WestPoint23]



Check out the Kornet-E, known to be sold to Syria, Iran, and used to make the only Abrams tank kills in Operation Iraqi Freedom.

www.army-technology.com...



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 11:15 PM
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There weren't any Kornets used in Iraq, not to my knowledge at least.



posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by Kozzy
There weren't any Kornets used in Iraq, not to my knowledge at least.


abcnews.go.com...

web.naplesnews.com...

www.google.com...

From Russia with love ^^.



posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 12:28 AM
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Oh, never heard that before.



posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 12:35 AM
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Originally posted by Kozzy
Oh, never heard that before.


Some right-wing pundits were shouting about Russia stabbing us in the back and some left-wing pundits worrying about the situation becoming 'Nam over this matter plus the matter of so many Russian night vision goggles found on enemy troopers. The US Army was VERY surprised to find some Iraqis firing accurately at night just like they were very surprised when a few tanks were taken out.



posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 03:47 AM
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The Merk is the same internal volume as the Abrams and weights more in the basic model 65 M tons vs 63 M tons [M-1A2SEP]...but the weights of the Merk are the plain jane weights without applique. THats going to be alot more. Maybe 10 tons more?

There were NO Kornets in Iraq!

[edit on 21-8-2004 by psteel]



posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 04:03 AM
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When Sweden was about to aquire new tanks for the defence, Abrahams was one of the possible tanks.

The yankees flew in an Abraham from the first Gulf War to show the massive power of the armour.

The tank had taken a direct front hit from a T-72, but the armour was so good they could continue to fight.



posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 04:35 AM
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Originally posted by psteel
The Merk is the same internal volume as the Abrams and weights more in the basic model 65 M tons vs 63 M tons [M-1A2SEP]...but the weights of the Merk are the plain jane weights without applique. THats going to be alot more. Maybe 10 tons more?

There were NO Kornets in Iraq!

[edit on 21-8-2004 by psteel]


The Merkava 4 must have more internal volume than the Abrams because the Merkava 4 has room for eight dismounts.

If there were no Kornets in Iraq, then how were Abrams tanks knocked out? There's no way Kornets were publically sold to Syria and privately to Iran without some leaking across the border along with numerous foreign fighters itching for Jihad in Rummy World. If there were no Kornets in Iraq show the proof, since I already showed the proof that they were there and were used, despite international sanctions against their import to that country.



posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 11:32 AM
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The Merkava has room for dismounts, plus it's taller and wider then the Abrams.

[edit on 21-8-2004 by Kozzy]



posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 11:52 AM
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Firstly the M-1A1 turret is hugh and accounts for 1/4 of the tank volume while the Merk turret is long and narrow.Abrams carries more fuel which also takes up space..they have about the same internal volume. THe dismount thing is overrated Israelis use the space for extra ammo but can carry extra crew members for extended 24 hour battlefield. THats why they designed the extra space in back, for 24 hour battlefield.

REmember according to the designer [Gen Tal] Merk has 70% of its armor devoted to the frontal arc. If you read Simkins / Hilmes etc you will see standard is 50% to the frontal arc. Merk is probably better protected than Abrams.

Kornets were never used in Iraq and no credible evidence exists and offical statments reflect this [see lessons of war around the net]. Any thing can kill a tank including an M-1 if you now how & were to shoot or get lucky. According to "thunder run" the M-1 disabled got hit by a recoilless rifle fired from below the highway ramp, while another got disabled by a Bradely 25mm autocannon!!! Do you know that according to JANES the rear half of the Abrams hull is made of 1 inch steel plates and the skirting plates mounted on the rear side hull is only 1 cm mild steel [ I know cause I measured it myself].


Bradelys also disabled T-55s and T-72s in the frontal arc with there 25mm autocannon. All tanks have weak spots you just need to know where to look for them.


[edit on 21-8-2004 by psteel]



posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 03:55 PM
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A while back I saw a show on history channel about Medina Ridge- where we finally got our hands on a large group of Iraqi tanks (i think republican guard actually).

We engaged from outside of their range and shreded them, then moved in for the kill, but the burning hulks of the Iraqi tanks were obscuring our visuals. A Mobility Killed T-72 found itself looking at an M1A1 point blank, and got a shot in. It set off the tanks ammunition stores, but the doors blew out and spared the crew, although they were now out of the fight,

I'm pretty sure any tank losses in the gulf were just well placed or lucky shots from the typical Iraqi armament.



posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond


I'm pretty sure any tank losses in the gulf were just well placed or lucky shots from the typical Iraqi armament.


Yes considering how incompetant the Iraqies were this is hardly surprising.



posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by psteel
Firstly the M-1A1 turret is hugh and accounts for 1/4 of the tank volume while the Merk turret is long and narrow.Abrams carries more fuel which also takes up space..they have about the same internal volume. THe dismount thing is overrated Israelis use the space for extra ammo but can carry extra crew members for extended 24 hour battlefield. THats why they designed the extra space in back, for 24 hour battlefield.

REmember according to the designer [Gen Tal] Merk has 70% of its armor devoted to the frontal arc. If you read Simkins / Hilmes etc you will see standard is 50% to the frontal arc. Merk is probably better protected than Abrams.

Kornets were never used in Iraq and no credible evidence exists and offical statments reflect this [see lessons of war around the net]. Any thing can kill a tank including an M-1 if you now how & were to shoot or get lucky. According to "thunder run" the M-1 disabled got hit by a recoilless rifle fired from below the highway ramp, while another got disabled by a Bradely 25mm autocannon!!! Do you know that according to JANES the rear half of the Abrams hull is made of 1 inch steel plates and the skirting plates mounted on the rear side hull is only 1 cm mild steel [ I know cause I measured it myself].


Bradelys also disabled T-55s and T-72s in the frontal arc with there 25mm autocannon. All tanks have weak spots you just need to know where to look for them.


[edit on 21-8-2004 by psteel]


The Merkava is a much better tank for urban warfare where troops and armor have to work together. The Abrams is designed to tank on superior numbers of Soviet armor pouring through the Fulda Gap. It's not very good for giving troops cover. So the Abrams is a better tank killer and the Merkava is better for combined arms.



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by taibunsuu


The Merkava is a much better tank for urban warfare where troops and armor have to work together. The Abrams is designed to tank on superior numbers of Soviet armor pouring through the Fulda Gap. It's not very good for giving troops cover. So the Abrams is a better tank killer and the Merkava is better for combined arms.


Not to knit pick but MERK is a better defensive tank while ABrams is a better offensive tank. THey both possess DUAPFSDS with probably similar capability, so neither is better as an AT asset. Merk is much better for GOlan heights ops.



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