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How strong is the M1M2 armor?

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posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 01:51 PM
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what does this mean? DU APFSDS




posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by 187onu
what does this mean? DU APFSDS


Depleted Uranium Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot

link!



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by psteel

Originally posted by 187onu
back to my question, which ya all probably dont remember

lets say i fire a 125mm tank selve (T-90/T-98) at the M1, will it destroy it or kill da crew?

and plz dont type to much iz a punishment for me to read!


With the latest chinese DU APFSDS you can penetrate the M-1A2 in the frontal arc probably out to 2km range.

Russians haven't produced any new APFSDS since the early 1990s. Even the Ukranian APFSDS is better [in theory].....since its known that the chinese buy weapons from the Russians I wonder if the RUssians bought some of the latest DUAPFSDS from the chinese.


The M1A2SEP has 950mm of RHA armor on the front, I highly doubt the Chinese bullet could penetrate it.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by Kozzy
A low hit with a TOW probably wouldn't knock the vehicle out, probably just mobility kill it.


A low hit? I may be wrong (probably not seeing as I am a TOW gunner,) but I thought the TOW was designed to hit the top of the turret, one of the weakest spots on the tank.

I understand the interest in the topic, but 187onu you seem a little more than casually interested. Saying you need to know implies more than just a curiosity. I do believe that at least part of the answer you seek is classified, and you may want to be carefull about how you word questions.
Just some friendly advice.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by Kozzy

Originally posted by psteel

Originally posted by 187onu
back to my question, which ya all probably dont remember

lets say i fire a 125mm tank selve (T-90/T-98) at the M1, will it destroy it or kill da crew?

and plz dont type to much iz a punishment for me to read!


With the latest chinese DU APFSDS you can penetrate the M-1A2 in the frontal arc probably out to 2km range.

Russians haven't produced any new APFSDS since the early 1990s. Even the Ukranian APFSDS is better [in theory].....since its known that the chinese buy weapons from the Russians I wonder if the RUssians bought some of the latest DUAPFSDS from the chinese.


The M1A2SEP has 950mm of RHA armor on the front, I highly doubt the Chinese bullet could penetrate it.


Well they probably can since they claim to beable to penetrate 950mm RMA at 2500m range.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 07:30 PM
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Do you really believe what the Chinese say?

Most non-Chinese estimates say 810mm, which isn't bad at all.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by cavscout

Originally posted by Kozzy
A low hit with a TOW probably wouldn't knock the vehicle out, probably just mobility kill it.


A low hit? I may be wrong (probably not seeing as I am a TOW gunner,) but I thought the TOW was designed to hit the top of the turret, one of the weakest spots on the tank.

I understand the interest in the topic, but 187onu you seem a little more than casually interested. Saying you need to know implies more than just a curiosity. I do believe that at least part of the answer you seek is classified, and you may want to be carefull about how you word questions.
Just some friendly advice.


Depends which TOW you're talking about. The TOW-2B forms an EFP over the tank and shoots down. The earlier TOWs are direct fire.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by Kozzy
Do you really believe what the Chinese say?

Most non-Chinese estimates say 810mm, which isn't bad at all.


I trust there figures as much as I trust the american figures....Chinese have 3 DUAPFSDS do you know which model refers to 810mm?


E_T

posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 04:18 AM
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Originally posted by Kozzy
Depends which TOW you're talking about. The TOW-2B forms an EFP over the tank and shoots down. The earlier TOWs are direct fire.

Yeah, it's warhead configuration differs pretty much from earlier versions, also it's flight trajectory is different.

www.globalsecurity.org...



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 04:37 AM
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I do believe that at least part of the answer you seek is classified, and you may want to be carefull about how you word questions.


thanks for the advice though, but............

what u wanna tell me they will come after me? what can the Faggot Big Idiots do? they useless pigs.
there witness protection # is as fake as #. i'd rather seek help from Osama


well im used to they comming after me, so im cool!



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by psteel

Originally posted by Kozzy
Do you really believe what the Chinese say?

Most non-Chinese estimates say 810mm, which isn't bad at all.


I trust there figures as much as I trust the american figures....Chinese have 3 DUAPFSDS do you know which model refers to 810mm?


It's the same one, the source I have says 960mm from the Chinese, 810mm for non-Chinese sources. The Chinese also say the M289A3 does only does 810mm

So you have to believe which country to believe. I trust American sabot making MUCH more then Chinese making.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 07:26 AM
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tell me something kozzy why is this ur tank rating?
1. M1A2SEP 2. Merkava Mk 4
shouldn't it be the oppposite, cuz the Mk 4 has much more armor (i dont know why they need that against kids who throw rocks but......)



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by 187onu
tell me something kozzy why is this ur tank rating?
1. M1A2SEP 2. Merkava Mk 4
shouldn't it be the oppposite, cuz the Mk 4 has much more armor (i dont know why they need that against kids who throw rocks but......)



k8ids throwing rocks? ISRAEL IS SURROUNDED BY ENEMY NATIONS, it must have superiorety.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by Kozzy

Originally posted by psteel

Originally posted by Kozzy
Do you really believe what the Chinese say?

Most non-Chinese estimates say 810mm, which isn't bad at all.


I trust there figures as much as I trust the american figures....Chinese have 3 DUAPFSDS do you know which model refers to 810mm?


It's the same one, the source I have says 960mm from the Chinese, 810mm for non-Chinese sources. The Chinese also say the M289A3 does only does 810mm

So you have to believe which country to believe. I trust American sabot making MUCH more then Chinese making.


This doens't sound right , the discrepancey is noted to be only 30-40mm or 90-02% which should mean 920-880mm . YOur source must be refering to the earlier 125mm DUAPFSDS round.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 09:39 AM
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Hocico back to the question, the mk-4 has more armor and a larger caliber (125 or something maybe bigger).



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by 187onu
Hocico back to the question, the mk-4 has more armor and a larger caliber (125 or something maybe bigger).


the merkava can also engage helicopters and fire cannon launched missiles, some say it has more advanced electronics, + it can be used as an APC (better in urban enviorments), it also has an internal 60mm mortar.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 12:38 PM
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Well they probably can since they claim to beable to penetrate 950mm RMA at 2500m range.


Really believing the Chinese? Do they have any M1A2's in their position that they are testing this DU armor piercing round? No they dont! Im sure their round is very effective but don't be quick to believe it can pierce the Front part of An M1A2's turret



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23

Well they probably can since they claim to beable to penetrate 950mm RMA at 2500m range.


Really believing the Chinese? ..... Im sure their round is very effective but don't be quick to believe it can pierce the Front part of An M1A2's turret



SInce the round has higher muzzle velocity and same mass plus is reported to have a geometray of 31:1 L/d [ 31 times long as it is wide]... this is very close to M-828A2/A3 which report 35:1 L/d and 100-200m/s lower muzzle velocity.

After crunching through this you have no choice...you realise that this round has been in developement since late 1980s and 3 improved versions have appeared in 1997 1999 and 2001....its not a matter of if but more like when.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 04:03 PM
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Where did you find the actual stats on the penetrator? But a higher velocity might not help it, the DM53 has a higher velocity then the M289A3 but gets less penetration. Plus it's not only the mass and speed which determine, how well it is made is reall important, most things come apart at 1600m/s. I trust American manufacturing much more.

The Merkava doesn't have more armor the the M1A2SEP. It has better protection all around from RPGs and other CE warheads. And all modern tanks have a reasonable chance of hitting low flying helicopters with their main guns.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by Kozzy
...... Plus it's not only the mass and speed which determine, how well it is made is reall important, most things come apart at 1600m/s. I trust American manufacturing much more.



The basic problem is that these rounds were supposedly developed with help from the Israelis ...so it could be very dangerous to assume anything about them. THe stats were from a chinese source that wish to remain annonymous.



The Merkava doesn't have more armor the the M1A2SEP.


How can we know this, since every thing about the Merk is so secret? much more so than Abrams




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