Your house is just a pile of rubbles but it's not enough : FEMA to tornado families

reply to post by Xcathdra


Depth not breath...after reading several walls of your text, I have come to the conclusion you are well versed in the operations of FEMA and exactly what they do and don't do. Cheers to you for your expertise and attempting to educate us all about FEMA...unfortunately I am still unmoved by FEMA's complete idiotic statement the insufficient damage was done.

I also am a tad bit confused about how the government can justify handing out billions of dollars globally to victims of natural disasters but is so damn stingy when it comes to the American people. Surely FEMA would recognize that they are terribly underfunded in comparison to say...Afghanistan and the money the U.S. government has spent there. FEMA only gets a tasty morsel compared to our governments needless spending abroad. I dare not say anything about how little they receive compared to the military...totally taboo.

Again I don't hate FEMA...and I am no longer ignorant to their policy's and procedures (thank you for the link) but I do have to wonder why you are so admittedly defending them against the haters. Do you suggest that we should abolish all FEMA funding and leave it up to the individual...after all you seem to think individual accountability should be key right?

Is FEMA underfunded? Are they completely wrong in saying there was insufficient damage? The answer is yes, they are completely wrong, and they look like idiots...certainly we can expect them to at least give the people a reasonable answer...like file an insurance claim first! Insufficient damage...really?

reply to post by jerryznv


Im not an expert on how FEMA works and I am not arguing in their defense. What I AM trying to do is get it across to people that the claims they make about FEMA are based on a lack of knowledge. If people are going to criticise something, dont you think they should know what they are talking about before doing so?

Seems to be the responsible thing to do dont you think?

As far as funding goes for FEMA and foreign aid, the only answer I can give you is its 2 completely different areas. We have agreements with countries where we provide aid to them. While I agree that sending money overseas rather than investing it here is irritating. I would prefer we close all overseas bases and bring all troops home. I would also like to cut all foriegn aid and keep the money here. I think it would be better spent on fixing our infrastructure, research and development across all scientif fields, paying of the debt etc etc etc.

People are confusing my argument on FEMA as support. What I am arguing is for people to learn how it works before making statements about it that are untrue. It would be like you and I having a discussion about Adolph Hitler where I make a comment about the number of death camps and you correcting me that there were actually ## of camps while explaining how the different camps worked.

Does that make you a supporter of Nazi Germany and their goals / policies?

Is FEMA underfunded? Good question because I dont know. FEMA is not meant to be the knight in shining armor confronting the dragon. Its designed to be the cavalry arriving in time to make the difference.

As far as FEMA and the house in the op, mistakes happen. However, even if they made no mistakes there, the request would have been denied because the homeowner has insurance. The first thing people need to do is contact their insurance companies, not run directly to FEMA with open hands in anticipation of a blank check.

As far as a resonable answer - FEMA has stated that if a person is denied a claim, they can appeal the decision. Did the people in the OP appeal?

Also, people need to re-read the article because you guys are missing a key sentence -

Three days later, Stewart received a letter stating he didn't qualify for a FEMA grant. One of the reasons: Insufficient damage.

What are the other reasons, and why were they left out of the article? One could assume it contained info about how the process works, who he needs to contact next, how to appeal, maybe tellin him to go through his insurance company first etc etc etc.

***

FEMA officials urge applicants who believe they were incorrectly declared ineligible -- for whatever reason -- to appeal.

"A lot of those people registered but didn't have damage,"

But FEMA reported that as of Wednesday, less than 1 percent of the 25,081 applicants initially declared ineligible for any reason had appealed.

Stewart said he now knows his insurance coverage will replace his house, so he would be ineligible for a FEMA grant anyway.

Then why go on record and complain about the letter? If you have insurance, why did he file a FEMA claim instead of using his insurance?

reply to post by Xcathdra


I have a good idea why the Person in the article didn't go to his insurance company first. And i think you know why as well.

1. he didn't want his insurance premium to go up after he filed a claim,
2. He wanted a free handout from the gov't.
3. he like a lot of people in this very thread have NO CLUE what the role of FEMA is, in a natural disaster.

reply to post by Mercenary2012

3. he like a lot of people in this very thread have NO CLUE what the role of FEMA is, in a natural disaster.

How about a lot of people period. Have you ever had to deal with FEMA? Do you know anyone that has? Do you know what all their roles are?

A lot of people period...not just in this thread...the goings on and the behind the scenes bureaucracy of FEMA is very difficult to understand and it cannot be summarized in a few pages.

To be completely honest...wouldn't you say that the majority of the American public has a skewed opinion of what FEMA does and does not do? Why do you think that is?

I mean really...that is not common knowledge apparently...I sure did not know, and other than finding out because I was provided a link, may never have known. Just a fact. I imagine I am not all that different than my fellows when it comes to being ignorant about FEMA, is that wrong....maybe, but there is a whole lot that I consider myself ignorant to when it comes to our government.

reply to post by Xcathdra

If you have insurance, why did he file a FEMA claim instead of using his insurance?

Well now this is a good question. Could he have made a mistake...I mean FEMA did right? Maybe he did not know what the first step was and was ignorant about FEMA too. I would suppose the latter since it is a obvious problem in the general populations conception of FEMA. To be honest we don't know...very possible that it was malicious and was intending to defraud them out of some money, but we really don't know. That part of the story seems to be missing doesn't it?

Then why go on record and complain about the letter?

Another good question...is he rallying the FEMA haters. I doubt it and it probably has more to do with the media coverage in the area and a good story. The better question is why was this story reported? Why is this in the news? I suppose this fellow could have been seeking some attention, but that would discredit the fraud aspect a bit. Most criminals do not publicly announce their intentions (anonymous excluded, as they seem to do it every week) and certainly criminals don't ask for media attention to be brought in to air out their malicious intentions.

Another part of the story left in the great big unknown. So do we fairly speculate and assume he had bad intentions? I don't...I need more information before I hang him for fraud...at least that seems reasonable.

reply to post by jerryznv


I know alot of people that are currently dealing with FEMA since the May 22nd EF-5 tornado that came through Joplin Missouri. 1 of those people is my Aunt who lost everything in the tornado.

Before May 22nd i had a pretty good idea what Fema's role was as this isn't the first time they have responded to disasters in the Joplin area. May 2003 a tornado hit Carl Junction MO. I have family that was in that tornado. May 2008 the tornado that hit Picher, OK, then moved across the state line it Missouri just South of Joplin. Then there was the massive ice storms that hit Joplin 2 winters in a row. and the blizzard just this last winter here in Joplin. all those event's FEMA responded and provided temporary emergency aid.

Can FEMA do a better job informing people what their role is. sure there is always room for improvement.
But on the other hand each disaster is different and their response varies from disaster to disaster depending on what the most immediate need is. so until they respond to a disaster it is hard for them to say this is everything we do in every disaster because you know as well as i do that if they say we do this in every disaster and in a disaster they don't provide that service people will scream bloody murder.

But in every disaster FEMA's primary role is to be a coordinator of every federal agency to the state. to move in massive amounts of supplies that are needed, and to move in the massive amounts of equipment needed in the various stages of the disaster response. and if there is a need for it, to provide temporary housing assistance to those displaced by the disaster. whether it is renting existing houses or moving in manufactured housing. FEMA moved away from the camping trailers like those used in Katrina. now they are actually using mobile homes that come completely furnished.

But at the end of the day it is everyone's responsibility to be accountable for their own actions and knowing what to do and in what order to do them in a natural disaster.

ETA: Just so people don't think i'm sticking up for FEMA because they are helping my Aunt. she was DENIED BY FEMA. She had more than enough insurance to cover her losses, she also had enough money in her bank account to buy the basics, plus her insurance company cut her a emergency funds check the afternoon after the tornado. She knew before she contacted FEMA that she more than likely would have been denied but she applied mainly to see if she qualified for temporary housing assistance until she could find a new house.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by antar

 

Just because you don't like the policies, doesnt' make them any less true. Every person who loses a house is not entitled to a new one from the government. These things are sad, no one is denying that.

But it is only a last resort option...like it or not.

Huh? Where did you get that from what I have said?

I personally have good insurance that I pay out the nose for. I think it is the responsible thing to do.

If or when an event happens to me, I will call them as most people who are thinking straight will do as well.

FEMA has some very loving people who work for it as well as some real jerks who could care less.

I do volunteer with Emergency Services in my area and we get to work with them on a regular basis so I know what I am saying.

The only thing I worry about is when we have the big EQ as my insurance could not find anyone to write it for me at any cost, this was I think a few years back and at that time there was a moratorium on EQ insurance in my State.

If I need to call on FEMA I will and have no reservations about following the Appeals process as it is there to cut down on fraudulent cases, or at least it weeds out some of them anyway. I just think that the stinking red tape can be a smack in the face when you are standing vulnerable and naked to the world. Do I have solutions to that? No, yet would like to see more clarity on a local level about the responsibilities surrounding FEMA in todays climate so as to correct any misunderstandings by those who think that they are there 100% to pay for replacement without question.

The man in this article was obviously in shock in the aftermath, he probably found himself surrounded by FEMA and Red Cross workers there ready to help in any way possible in those first 24-48 hours and he just answered their questions, he probably stated he has insurance, but they don't stop the initial process of claims because you have insurance. They still help meet the immediate needs like shelter and food, contacting loved ones etc.

As Ron Paul stated we should not be paying anyone for these disasters with Federal monies anyway. The Gov. is broke already and this only taxes it even further. (Not a quote)

FEMA will however see to it that some claims are given in order to restore continuity of community, they will help with contracts for the debris cleanup and removal process and pay up to 75% of most of those claims.

It's not like they come in like big brother and pick up all the pieces and the full bill, they keep peoples privacy in the aftermath so as to be able to contact next of kin before the media circus does, they help orchestrate local and state to be able to stand on their own and finish the work with clarity.

reply to post by Mercenary2012

But in every disaster FEMA's primary role is to be a coordinator of every federal agency to the state. to move in massive amounts of supplies that are needed, and to move in the massive amounts of equipment needed in the various stages of the disaster response. and if there is a need for it, to provide temporary housing assistance to those displaced by the disaster. whether it is renting existing houses or moving in manufactured housing. FEMA moved away from the camping trailers like those used in Katrina. now they are actually using mobile homes that come completely furnished.

I could not have said it better..."if there is a need for it, to provide temporary housing assistance to those displaced by the disaster"...I understand their primary purpose, and I also understand that they ALSO help people who are in immediate need of housing.

This fellows house, whether he rents or owns it is irrelevant, has been destroyed and he is homeless...I consider that displaced by the disaster. Agreed? Whether or not he has insurance, renters, or any other kind, is hardly going to help him and his family in their immediate circumstances...maybe a little FEMA assistance is needed right now, regardless of his insurance status.

Now if he applied solely to have his home rebuilt...well then bad on him...either way though, the inspector could clearly discern that the mans residence was gone, not unrepairable, or in shambles, but completely gone.

I don't consider this mans need to be a waste of tax payers money, nor do I think that he was intentionally trying to defraud the government out of money...it's pretty apparent to me he was doing what I think I would do if FEMA was there offering assistance...I would apply and ask for it.

reply to post by jerryznv


if he truly needed the help then he should have gotten it. however we just have his side of the story and not even a complete picture of his side of the story. IE, what were ALL the reasons listed for his denial. and i can almost guarantee the lack of damage wasn't the first reason listed in his letter.

Did he have cash on hand or in the bank to rent a hotel room/rooms for his family? or could he have rented a house while he was waiting for his insurance claim? Why didn't he go to his insurance first? he would have likely gotten alot more from his insurance than he would have from FEMA anyway. remember the average payout from FEMA is around $6k not enough to rebuild a house. If he would have went to his insurance company first and right after the tornado he more than likely would have had a check in his hand within 24 hours it wouldn't have been much but it would have been emergency funds to use for his family.

I don't know how the insurance companies were doing emergency fund checks in Tuscaloosa if they even were. but up here in Joplin most if not all insurance companies were giving out emergency fund checks to families when they filed their claim and told them it was an advance on their final payment.

I have a pretty good idea why he was denied for temporary housing assistance to. if both he and his wife were employed they probably made to much money to qualify.

also if he needed help finding a place to stay why didn't he get in touch with the red cross, they also offer temporary housing assistance in the wake of a natural disaster.

everyone jumps on FEMA when stories like this get reported but no one ever asks the questions i have asked in this thread.

I know its just easy to scream and yell fema did this and fema didn't do that. but honestly why didn't the people do this why didn't the people do that instead of running to a reporter and giving a sob story that they ran to fema looking for a handout and was denied. and then to top it off, if they really feel FEMA should have approved them then why in the hell do they not appeal FEMA's denial? the letter that comes in the mail that tells you, you were denied also tells you step by step what to do to appeal FEMA's decision and they practically BEG people to appeal so they can take a 2nd look at your claim and either find errors in the first claim or better explain why you were denied.

But no they would rather cry and try to get sympathy from the public because they feel they were wronged by a gov't agency because they didn't get a free handout.

Hell this guy could have went to the SBA and applied for a low interest loan to help his family as well. YES the SBA provides loans in natural disasters to anyone whether they are a small business or not. and applying for an SBA loan has no effect on any aid you might receive from fema.

And yes i agree he and his family was displaced because of the tornado, But to be considered a displaced resident by FEMA's Standards you have to prove you cannot afford to rent a hotel room for you and your family, or you can't afford to pay rent on a house or apartment, or you don't have friends or family that can take you in while you rebuild.

And lets be honest here. the temporary housing assistance is only for 18 months. and it is going to take more than 18 months for Tuscaloosa to rebuild.so your better off trying to rent a house on your own or make other living arrangements while you rebuild anyway.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by antar

 

Right, so you arent going to give us the reason for your issues with FEMA, nor are you going to support those reasons with verifable sources? You seem to want the ability to just stroll into a thread, dump on FEMA and any person who says you are wrong, without having to explain your side or support it with facts. Then you want to hide behind a mod alert from a different thread, where you did the exact same thing.

This is not grade school.

As far as the mod warning goes, you can use whatever you think is going to shield you from having to answer the basic questions I guess.. If that kind of thing works for you.. In case you missed it though, this thread is about FEMA, its policies, how it operates during disasters etc. So my posts are very much on topic, where as yours direct people to another thread, and you fail to discuss the topic at hand.

Nothing you said has been misalligned, since you have provided us with absolutely NO info, other than your link to aonther thread talking about disease. Your seeing conspiracies in everything now, even my responses.

Its simple though -

Why do you hate FEMA?
Please cite your examples.
Please cite your sources?

Easy enough... Your move.

edit on 12-6-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-6-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-6-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-6-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Number one let's see, do you think insurance companies are in the business to pay out for these people who lost everything? That's your first mistake, insurance is a business, a very very big business. It's a business' job to make money and cut costs, correct? If you didn't study economics you still should know this. Any person with half the intelligence of a llama would know that they are not -NOT- I repeat in the business to pay out to homeowners, that would mean they would lose some of thier capital and last I heard besides the banks, the biggest business that takes us to the cleaners is the Insurance business, homeowners and medical insurance for the most part, but all insurance in some way follows the mantra to find ways to not pay out to these people who've paid to recieve some kind of security whether it is to secure their home, auto, or well being, and in the end they spent thousands with as little return as you could possibly imagine for all the blood and sweat they poured into this soul sucking scam. They hire the people who have MAJORED in finding ways NOT to pay out a blessed settlement dime to the people paying for this "Service" and I use that term loosely cause a service usually means getting a return on your investment, which 9 times out of ten with an insurance you will NEVER see!!!!
Take this for instance:

There are many things that insurance companies don’t know. But there are a few things they know well… like getting your money. See, insurance companies are good at eating the pie and having it too. Actually, they are good at taking your money and keeping it too. The odds are that you’ll never see a return on the “investment” you’ve put into the security of insurance companies.

The Big Insurance Scam
Number two just try getting hurricane tornado or flood insurance for a mobile home in florida. There aint no way jose, as they say!

If there is no such policy as hurricane insurance, you may ask, then how do you get Florida hurricane insurance protection? It begins with your standard homeowners insurance policy. The typical homeowners insurance policy covers wind damage, as well as damage caused by rain entering an area of the home that has been damaged by wind. Your homeowners will probably pay for repairs for wind damage, removal of debris, and living expenses when you are displaced from your home.

And Flood insurance?

As you can see, Florida homeowners insurance does not cover flood damage, which is a major part of a hurricane’s wrath. Flood insurance and excess flood insurance are sold separately from your homeowners insurance. Flood insurance covers rising waters such as storm surge, waves, overflowing bodies of water (rivers, creeks, lakes, etc.), and runoff. If your Florida home is damaged by a flood, your flood insurance would be the policy that paid for repairs, debris removal, etc. Other types of homeowners insurance such as renters insurance, condo insurance, and mobile home insurance do not include hurricane insurance protection; they also require a separate flood insurance policy.

Florida Hurricane Insurance Information

Ok, this is in an area that is near bodies of water on BOTH sides! A Peninsula. I did it with what is relevent to me, being in Florida, but a lot of the info goes for regular homeowners as well and most likely other states with other kinds of insurances ie. tornado etc etc...yada yada yada.. And even if you do buy them just refer back to item number one.

and mobile home insurance do not include hurricane insurance protection; they also require a separate flood insurance policy.

I have even heard of the insurance companies saying they aren't the government they are in teh business to make money, not payouts. I can't remember who it was but there is a quote of this it's famous.

And this little tidbit:

An example of such low offers resulting in litigation is provided in Schafer v. State Farm Fire & Casualty. In this case, the Schafers’ purchased a homeowner’s policy from State Farm. The insured home was damaged extensively during hurricane Katrina and the Schafers’ filed a claim. When they were offered less than the replacement costs of their home, they sued State Farm. As of the date of this article they are presently suing as part of a class that was affected by the storms and the allegedly improper claims handling of State Farm.

Since all those horrible horrible people that were misplaced and lost everything from Katrina were just scamming FEMA according to you.And they just all ran to the government daddy to pick up the tab I'm sure.



My source and you should read it in it's entirety in case you don't understand exactly how crooked the insurance industry is.
I don't have the link but this is the acknowledgments:
Whitney R. Mauldin

Article Title:
Good Business/Bad Faith:
Why the Insurance Industry Should Adopt a Good Faith Model

University of Tulsa, College of Law
Third year law student

reply to post by ldyserenity


While I understand your argument, again, it has nothing to do with FEMA or the issue at hand. There is a process, and that process tells people to go to their insurance company first and FEMA last so they can cover what the insurance did not.

Hell the guy in the article skipped the state level all together, going straight to the federal level. If the guy has issues with his insurance company paying out, then he needs to take that up with State Officals as it is their jurisdiction.

Simply making a blanket statement that all insurance companies are evil does not make it true.

Would you care to point out where I stated all the people during Katrina scammed the government please. What I said was people used the debit cards to buy items that were not a neccessity, like big screen tvs and such. To me, that is fraud since the money at that time was for immediate needs only (food clothing shelter etc).