The Growth of Atheism and What it Means for Our Future

Originally posted by gentledissident


Whether Earth was considered a ball or a parabola, it made little difference to earlier homo sapiens. However, how we view the nature of life makes a big difference. It determines how our societies are conducted.

Exactly, which is why I don't think it's a good thing that people believe that there is nothing more thus life being pointless. If you know it will end it everything will be erased then there is no real point in trying to do anything with your life. Religion/spirituality provides hope.

Even if there really is nothing, now days I think I would like to believe a lie than believe my life is worthless.
Ironic. I used to be vehemently against that. I wanted to know everything no matter how painful it might be.

Originally posted by Annee
Live for today - - or live for a reward at the end.

For me - putting responsibility on me - to live each day - to make each day count - to provide for and leave a legacy to following generations is the reward.

For me - living for a reward at the end is false commitment to life. Doing/being "good" in the name of God to collect your reward at the end is really kind of pathetic.

Now - I personally do believe that consciousness is energy and eternal. So technically I do believe in some form of after life.

But to live for that - - - rather then give 100% to this life - - - is sad.

edit on 22-12-2011 by Annee because: (no reason given)

Idk about most people who believe in an afterlife, but I don't think most of them live for a "reward" at the end.

I think the world afterlife should be replaced. It's impossible to keep living after you die and many people take that the wrong way. I met someone who said she didn't believe in an afterlife. I asked her what her reason was for. She said heaven and hell just doesn't seem logical. I was like yeah but that's not the only thing that can count as an afterlife. Then she said that she did believe in reincarnation. I wanted to make a double face palm.

But anyways aside from all that, the major reason people probably want an afterlife is so they can remember their live and know it happened.

You ever play a video game and the save file corrupted basically deleting all your work? Sucks doesn't it? It does for me anyways. It was basically like I never did any of that stuff. The worst part was the fact that I gave it my 100% effort and dedication which really sucks. I might as well have not played the game if it were not for the fact that I remembered playing it.

If life is like that, the fact that I might as well never lived it because all my memory will just be erased into nothingness then it's hard to see a reason why I should care about anything or even live at all.

That's why I want some form of cpe to exist, so my life wasn't for nothing.

Originally posted by AgnosticWarrior
If life is like that, the fact that I might as well never lived it because all my memory will just be erased into nothingness then it's hard to see a reason why I should care about anything or even live at all.

That's why I want some form of cpe to exist, so my life wasn't for nothing.

Are you saying that the truth hurts you so badly, you need to fabricate your own reality? I don't know what cpe stands for, but I'm pretty sure wanting it isn't going to make it real.

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by AgnosticWarrior
If life is like that, the fact that I might as well never lived it because all my memory will just be erased into nothingness then it's hard to see a reason why I should care about anything or even live at all.

That's why I want some form of cpe to exist, so my life wasn't for nothing.

Are you saying that the truth hurts you so badly, you need to fabricate your own reality? I don't know what cpe stands for, but I'm pretty sure wanting it isn't going to make it real.

Well pretty much. If you've ever actually thought about it, you would probably feel the same.
First off I want to make it clear that I don't believe that there is nothing because we don't know.

CPE=Conscious postmortem existence.

Have you ever actually realized the totality of non-existence? The fact that everything you have thought of, every event in your life, all of your ideas, and you yourself will be as if you never existed at all? I'm not sure how you can be so okay with that, or even possibly like the idea of non-existence?

Only when my life is going really bad do I actually want to not exist. Maybe I should learn to hate life, that way I'll be comfortable with nonexistence.

It's just the fact that if it is true, I don't want to know it.
Tell me what good it will do to know that my life never happened? I'm not sure how anyone can think that's a good thing.

Well I'm trying to believe whatever I want to believe, it's just hard. I'm trying to convince myself that this horrible reality is just a simulation or a dream, that makes the most sense.

Who knows what wanting it is going to do. If I am wrong I will never know right?

Originally posted by AgnosticWarrior
Have you ever actually realized the totality of non-existence? The fact that everything you have thought of, every event in your life, all of your ideas, and you yourself will be as if you never existed at all?

Of course I have. It's part of me.

Originally posted by AgnosticWarrior
I'm not sure how you can be so okay with that, or even possibly like the idea of non-existence?

I accept reality. Rejecting reality makes one neurotic. Watching and interacting with neurotics, I can see they are mentally hindered and "accident" prone. I've helped bring a few to reality. They violently resist. Yes, they become violent when presented with reality. They are a danger to themselves and others.

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by AgnosticWarrior
Have you ever actually realized the totality of non-existence? The fact that everything you have thought of, every event in your life, all of your ideas, and you yourself will be as if you never existed at all?

Of course I have. It's part of me.

Originally posted by AgnosticWarrior
I'm not sure how you can be so okay with that, or even possibly like the idea of non-existence?

I accept reality. Rejecting reality makes one neurotic. Watching and interacting with neurotics, I can see they are mentally hindered and "accident" prone. I've helped bring a few to reality. They violently resist. Yes, they become violent when presented with reality. They are a danger to themselves and others.

So it doesn't bother you at all? How do you do that?
Just the possibility had been tormenting me for years since I was like 16-17 or so.

So you're basically saying most of the world is neurotic, delusional, etc, with mental problems... Because they don't believe in the reality that you believe to be true? Are you serious?

Originally posted by AgnosticWarrior
So it doesn't bother you at all? How do you do that?

I don't argue with reality. But I do escape on a frequent basis.

Originally posted by AgnosticWarrior
So you're basically saying most of the world is neurotic, delusional, etc, with mental problems... Because they don't believe in the reality that you believe to be true? Are you serious?

I'm saying that wishful thinking and avoiding reality make a person neurotic

To be fair, it seems most people can't handle reality. Should another species develop homo sapien like higher cognitive abilities and communication skills, perhaps they will write of homo sapiens, "The species was well advanced in thinking compared to the other species of the period. It seemed to have the unique ability to dwell on its own mortality. This ultimate reality drove them to ultimate fantasies. They were, ironically, the species best equipped to deal with reality, yet the fear of reality drove them to extinction."

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by AgnosticWarrior
So it doesn't bother you at all? How do you do that?

I don't argue with reality. But I do escape on a frequent basis.

Originally posted by AgnosticWarrior
So you're basically saying most of the world is neurotic, delusional, etc, with mental problems... Because they don't believe in the reality that you believe to be true? Are you serious?

I'm saying that wishful thinking and avoiding reality make a person neurotic

To be fair, it seems most people can't handle reality. Should another species develop homo sapien like higher cognitive abilities and communication skills, perhaps they will write of homo sapiens, "The species was well advanced in thinking compared to the other species of the period. It seemed to have the unique ability to dwell on its own mortality. This ultimate reality drove them to ultimate fantasies. They were, ironically, the species best equipped to deal with reality, yet the fear of reality drove them to extinction."

edit on 23-12-2011 by gentledissident because: (no reason given)

You can only escape reality in your mind. Which is basically what most do people all the time.

I always wondered if extraterrestrials might have a religion of some form. If some advanced species of aliens ever made contact with earth, one question I would love to ask them is what they believed. Maybe, nothing, maybe something.
Although I don't see how believing in some sort of spiritual belief will lead to the extinction of the human race. Most of human history has been filled with hard core religion and the superstitions that have came with it. You're making religion/spirituality look like this plague filled disease that is going to wipe out humanity. I can't possibly see how religious/spiritual beliefs could be a bad thing. The only bad side is the hard core religious fanatics like the Islamic terrorist. the majority of religious/spiritual people go about their day as any atheist or anyone else for that matter.

Originally posted by AgnosticWarrior
I can't possibly see how religious/spiritual beliefs could be a bad thing.

Really, I don't know how I can be any clearer. Here's a link: Neurosis.

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by AgnosticWarrior
I can't possibly see how religious/spiritual beliefs could be a bad thing.

Really, I don't know how I can be any clearer. Here's a link: Neurosis.

"Neurosis is a class of functional mental disorders involving distress but neither delusions nor hallucinations, whereby behavior is not outside socially acceptable norms."

Hmm.... So you think religious/spiritual people are like this? That sounds kind of like paranoia.


Here is another definition:

1.
Also called psychoneurosis. a functional disorder in which feelings of anxiety, obsessional thoughts, compulsive acts, and physical complaints without objective evidence of disease, in various degrees and patterns, dominate the personality.
2.
a relatively mild personality disorder typified by excessive anxiety or indecision and a degree of social or interpersonal maladjustment.

You still haven't explain how religious/spiritual people are like that.
Religion/spirituality does not cause distress, it gives hope to people.

How can it be a bad thing? Hmm... Well I thought you were going to go on about war and killing and all that, but it sounds like you just think everyone else but you is delusional, neurotic, living in a fantasy land, etc. Is that correct? If so, you sound very arrogant and slightly paranoid.

Originally posted by AgnosticWarrior
you sound very arrogant and slightly paranoid.

Why would you think I'm arrogant? If you would call a psychologist arrogant for trying to relieve a person, then I understand. I'm not about insulting. I'm about helping. This is for their benefit, my benefit, and the world's benefit. I don't condemn people for being afraid of reality. It seems our species's fatal flaw. I'm just trying to save our species.

Why would you think I'm paranoid? I've had plenty of time to learn how to live with believers. I know how to handle them when they snap. It did affect me when I was younger. I was paranoid of violence toward me and being further outcast. This might have been vigilance, as violence and isolation were very real back then. I don't think the difference these days is so much my ability to disarm. I think there's been a change in the way people think about atheism. The same goes for vegetarianism. I think this here internet may be making a difference.

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by AgnosticWarrior
you sound very arrogant and slightly paranoid.

Why would you think I'm arrogant? If you would call a psychologist arrogant for trying to relieve a person, then I understand. I'm not about insulting. I'm about helping. This is for their benefit, my benefit, and the world's benefit. I don't condemn people for being afraid of reality. It seems our species's fatal flaw. I'm just trying to save our species.

Why would you think I'm paranoid? I've had plenty of time to learn how to live with believers. I know how to handle them when they snap. It did affect me when I was younger. I was paranoid of violence toward me and being further outcast. This might have been vigilance, as violence and isolation were very real back then. I don't think the difference these days is so much my ability to disarm. I think there's been a change in the way people think about atheism. The same goes for vegetarianism. I think this here internet may be making a difference.

First off I'm not trying to be offensive, just so you know. It's just that you sound that way when you basically say everyone is delusional, neurotic, etc. As if you have solid absolute irrefutable proof that your view is right and everyone else is dead wrong. It comes off as arrogant, even if you are right.

When they snap? What do you mean by that? I've told people that I don't believe in what the believe in and the worst they've told me is that I'm going to hell, and a few times they just distance themselves from me. That's about it. What way has it changed much? Vegetarianism? I'm a vegetarian. No one seems to have a problem with that, I don't think. At least no one has harassed me about it, other than just repeatedly ask me why and trying to convince me to eat meat and etc.

Originally posted by nicolee123nd

An atheist population can become more scientifically advanced, mostly because religious activists won't get in the way. For example, the only reason evolution is a theory and not a law is because there are too many creationists in the equation. Face it, there's too much evidence and nothing to disprove evolution. Aside from evolution, there would be so much more scientific opportunities for the future, such as stem cell research, better birth control, origins of life on earth, searching for life on other planets, origins of the universe, and so much more. All because the Bible isn't stopping us anymore.

i have to say, as somebody who does believe in God, it makes me CRAZY when people assume that all believers deny evolution! that is a fringe idea that is fairly new, most mainstream Christians don't have a conflict believing in both God and science. Many of us believe the laws of science were "written" by God; as St. Thomas Aquinas once wrote, "all truth is God's truth"! many of us believers are just as dismayed & disgusted by the michelle bachman's & pat roberson's as you atheists & agnostics, sometimes more so, because they make us look bad!

also, you stated " the only reason evolution is a theory and not a law is because there are too many creationists in the equation." actually the 'theory' of evolution is inherently unprovable from a scientific standpoint, whether there are creationists in washington or not.

i think it's actually a good thing that atheism is on the rise; i detest forcing others to believe in anything. i think a society where people are truly free to believe or not is a healthy society! i do see a tendency to lump all believers into one category and make them "the enemy," this is exactly what religion has been doing for thousands of years! pick somebody who seems different than you, and make them a scapegoat for all your problems. it still doesn't fly, all these years later....

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell". -C.S. Lewis