Changes Coming to Origins and Creationism.

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posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 03:21 AM
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Originally posted by Silicis n Volvo

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


Not playing those games MIMS. The OP is clear. You are a prolific poster. From that I take it that you are intelligent. If you can't discern that for yourself one would have to assume an agenda and a willingness for being intentionally obtuse.



for a super moderator thats not very helpful is it...disappointed when i read that

some people could consider this thread as a perfect example of the trouble and disruption religion causes to every day life.


unfortunately, i think it's already been clearly established that action creates reaction. lack of disruption denotes steady flow with no opposition (this could be bad or good, depending on what side of the fence you're on). so the mere fact people have different opinions, automatically creates disruption, not the subjects of religion or atheism, but just the reality that we don't always agree. no conspiracy in that, however.




posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 03:41 AM
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p.s. i still want to know how that token religious panel member knew that the person had built a harry potter website that had only been up for a month, years before the comments made by the panel member. still creeps me out every time i think about it. also makes me wonder if that same individual keeps tabs on what people eat, watch on TV, when they sleep, when they have sex, expel gas, how many times they brush their teeth (or lack thereof) and etc. gives a whole new spin on big brother. whoever it was, i have a few questions ........!

edit on 13-6-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 04:07 AM
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Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by intrepid
 


Creationism is a conspiracy, there are people as we speak trying to get Creationism put in schools, which is wildly unconstitutional and they are conspiring to do it, even openly at times.

Don't get me wrong I understand wanting to keep the maturity level up and avoid bickering and trolling but it doesn't make sense to say that posts here have to include a conspiracy because any discussion on Creationism automatically includes a conspiracy.


This shows your flawed thinking. Creation was something believed for thousands of years before man had any ability to invent the word conpiracy. But if you intelligently think this through, evolution is a conspiracy becuase it's was created to oppose evolutionary thought and an intelligent person cant really belive in evolution.

I saw walking with dinosours the other night. It was hilarious. All of a sudden a new creature appeared but no form of that creature partially and progressively evolved from it ever appears, not in the probgram and not in reality. Look for the evidence. You've been fed something in huge spoonfuls and gulped i all in. Evolution is 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10.

What have we been fed? 1....ah therefore 10! We don't even get a 2!

Evolution is for gullible people who don't belive in God but belive in aliens instead. Hilarious.

Your own arguement pulled you through the floor.



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 04:41 AM
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reply to post by Nosred
 

According to the people who choose not to believe in the theory of evolution, the entire theory is just one vast century-and-a-half long conspiracy between scientists and politicians to strip away the moral fiber of humanity. On the other end, there's hardly a month that goes by where I don't see an article about some state or local school board using some amazing feats of semantic gymnastics to support introducing an inherently religious concept into a science classroom.



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 04:55 AM
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Originally posted by iterationzero
reply to post by Nosred
 

According to the people who choose not to believe in the theory of evolution, the entire theory is just one vast century-and-a-half long conspiracy between scientists and politicians to strip away the moral fiber of humanity. On the other end, there's hardly a month that goes by where I don't see an article about some state or local school board using some amazing feats of semantic gymnastics to support introducing an inherently religious concept into a science classroom.


it would be ironically funny if it turns out that both ideas are talking about the same things, and the entire issue is a semantics problem. both sides like to remind each other of the faux pas of past incorrect theoretical positions on the subject, totally missing the opportunity to see if what they are each seeing is perhaps all the same banana. now THAT would be such a grand conspiracy theory, it would leave the realm of human coordinated activity and venture either into the realm of evil intention or our conspiracy to ignore our own fallibility
edit on 13-6-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 05:19 AM
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Originally posted by daggyz
Is this in response to those who don't believe in creation getting sick of being beat up by the fact that evolution requires far more faith than anyone from any religion believing in a superior being? That question seems to raise the ire of evolitions who claim foul.


...so you're just going to troll in a thread that's about an end to trolling on this sub-forum? Aside from the fact that you're posting a blatantly untrue statement, you're doing so in a thread where it's off-topic.

The reason this is happening is because mods frequently have to remove off-topic posts and other, more extreme, violations



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 06:33 AM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


While I agree with the post,

When I read the tag, I thought it was another "Doom \ We all gonna die" thread!



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 07:02 AM
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Welcome to 1984. Here we will have intelligent conversation as determined by the police of thought. Correct and polite words shall be used so as to not inflict unnecessary hardship upon the hearer. Conspiracy shall be determined by a board of Mods as defined by their perception as to what a conspiracy is. The conflict being between two main points of thought on the concept of God or no God, or which god is god, or that there is no god at all, and how it all came to be, and that such discussion may at times seem offensive to some people who cannot handle deep intense and emotional debate on the most talked about subject on earth, to that end the thought police shall now dictate the terms of the discussion, the way the words shall be said, and shall direct the course of the discussion so as to take any semblance of the actual intent of the debate away. It shall be modified, corrected, and fit to a standard compliant with political and social correctness.

Good luck with that.

Let's hope ATS never gets a competitor that will allow true freedom of speech which is what the internet is all about, or at was supposed to be about.



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 07:12 AM
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Evolution v Creationism v 'seeded' by aliens ....
I'm glad I don't care.

I'm here. I'm doing my best. That's all that matters.
We'll never know, at least in this life anyways, what really happened to start it all.
If there were definitive evidence proving any theory, this discussion would be over.
Obviously there is no definitive evidence in any direction.
Therefore .... BAH! No one really knows.
Rehashing definitive-less theories on this is a waste of time.

Until God Himself jumps up, waves his arm in the air, and says "I did it" .... until the aliens themselves land (again) on the runway at Chicago/O'hare and squawk out "we did it" .... until we document nature itself randomly changing one species into another .... any discussion is just a rehash of old theories ... and any HEATED discussions are silly.



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 07:13 AM
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posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 07:18 AM
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I find it interesting that there is a term "creationist conspiracy". I have always felt creationists were very open about their beliefs and plans. Sadly most of the people in this debate don't actually have the scientific knowledge to weigh in properly. I must say though if evolution doesn't exist someone better tell the Australian bulldog (New in 1990s) or the American Hairless terrier (created in 1972) that they don't exist and while they're at it they can tell all the pig farmers and vegetable growers they are producing food that doesn't exist since they used the principles of evolution to totally change the animals and plants. The changes are so apparent that the new pigs (made in last 100 years) sperm and eggs don't work with the original unchanged pigs anymore because they are too different genetically. But I guess if someone believed the earth was flat and that the Governments were faking that its round, I couldn't prove him wrong. People are gonna believe what they wan't regardless of truth. The sad thing is Evolution is 100% compatable with the Bible and this whole thing was just pride keeping religious leaders admiting they were wrong when Darwin came along.



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 07:33 AM
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I always thought that ATS was about seperating facts from fiction?

I mean, it's fine to theorise, and to postulate. It's great to bring evidence to the table. The problem with the theist / atheist debate is that neither side can ever bring any evidence to the table, because there is none for either side. All people can ever do is theorise - which to be fair, has been ever so slightly overdone in the thousands of years that religion has been about, and here on ATS. All we ever see is atheists trying to turn ATS into a purely sceptical and secular outpost, and religious fundies trying to recruit everyone else on here and turn ATS into a dogmatic fact interpretation centre. The discussion of conspiracy and alternative subjects goes out of the _

Personally, I'd like to see a ban on explicitly theist vs atheist threads, so that we can get back to discussing conspiracy and alt' subjects. I also think that repeat offenders in this regard shouldn't be banned, but should have ALL of their posts branded with either a 'fundie' tag, or a 'fascist non-believer' tag. Humiliation is far better than bannination....

The Revenant.



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 07:45 AM
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Identities and toes. You step on those and it hurts. Perhaps a disclaimer on the Your reply/comments page.
Simalar to the yellow lettered one I'm looking at now. a About, "an experienced contributor make every post matter".

Something like

Warning:; Members posting in this forum in the past have experienced these side effects: Hurt feelings, sudden outbursts of name calling, the use of profanity, side aches, head aches, stomach aches, dizziness and vomiting.
Members have also reported coming away from this forum with identifiable personality disorders while others have reported thoughts of suicide. If you are prone to any of these ATS recommends that you only read in this forum until you grow up.

Ur somethin.



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 08:13 AM
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Sometimes a little humor, goes a way...
~Frater


A Zen master once said to me, "Do the opposite of whatever I tell you." So I didn't.


"I'm astounded by people who want to 'know' the universe when it's hard enough to find your way around chinatown."

- Woody Allen.


Some people think that Buddhist practice and meditation are about stopping thoughts. As the saying goes, if that were true, a coconut would be enlightened..... Let's remember that upon attaining enlightenment the Buddha smiled. This is very important. He didn't have to smile. He could have grimaced or remained neutral, but he smiled..... After reading Milarepa 25 times I had the insight that Mila was in fact a comedian.

- Prof Robert Thurman, talking in Cleveland.



Paradise is exactly like where you are right now ... only much, much better.

-- Laurie Anderson


Beer is God's way of showing us he loves and cares for us.

-- Benjamin Franklin


Peace, Love and Light to everyone. Whatever this thread was about, people can forgive and if we are not here to help and care and love one another then why bother?

LVX (Light In Extension!)

Frater



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 08:43 AM
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the conspiracy of religion and how it is attempting to subvert our education system, our political decisions, and our way of life as both society and individualism
to ignore it has caused people as individuals to be burned at a stake and nations to go to war.

Origins Verses Creationism is the main battleline of this conspiracy...the moment you mention the word creationism, you have envoked a conspiracy thousands upon thousands of years old by the elite to fool the masses.

Enforce the rules, sure..however the first part of pusing something into faith if its not some new weird conspiracy..well, that goes against the concept of the whole origins forum

Is ATS deciding they don't want to talk about controversial subjects anymore?



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by The Revenant
 


I always thought that ATS was about seperating facts from fiction?

In practice, this is difficult to do at times. That’s why I think ATS’s motto of “Deny Ignorance” is so powerful.


I mean, it's fine to theorise, and to postulate. It's great to bring evidence to the table. The problem with the theist / atheist debate is that neither side can ever bring any evidence to the table, because there is none for either side.

You’re actually highlighting one of the reasons I think this change/reinforcement of policy is occurring. Discussions of origins don’t necessarily have to break down to a theist vs. atheist paradigm. Look at it this way: a majority of the population of developed nations are theist, a majority of the population of developed nations subscribe to the theory of evolution. There’s a significant degree of overlap there.


All people can ever do is theorise - which to be fair, has been ever so slightly overdone in the thousands of years that religion has been about, and here on ATS. All we ever see is atheists trying to turn ATS into a purely sceptical and secular outpost, and religious fundies trying to recruit everyone else on here and turn ATS into a dogmatic fact interpretation centre. The discussion of conspiracy and alternative subjects goes out of the _

This either/or mentality is part of the problem. Pigeonholing people into one of two extremes and ignoring the fact that there are plenty of moderate theists and atheists here on ATS is only going to alienate them. Alienating the moderate elements of each won’t improve the conditions, it’ll make the problem worse.


Personally, I'd like to see a ban on explicitly theist vs atheist threads, so that we can get back to discussing conspiracy and alt' subjects. I also think that repeat offenders in this regard shouldn't be banned, but should have ALL of their posts branded with either a 'fundie' tag, or a 'fascist non-believer' tag. Humiliation is far better than bannination...

I think labeling members who are expressing their beliefs in the context of a thread just because those beliefs happen to be theist or atheist is a patently bad idea. Even assuming that it was a good idea, trying to enforce it in an even-handed way would be next to impossible.



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by randyvs
 

Hey! My 97 other personalities (all Napoleon, by the way...) take offense to this!



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by Tephra
 
I agree but just to make sure, I think ATS should up its age requirement to at least 16 but, that would probably wipe out half the membership and all the Super Friends and Heroes. If ATS were to up the age minimum to 21, that would wipe out the Werewolf, Vampire and Zombie Crowd...well almost but that would also seriously deplete the "Hall Monitor Crowd". Not sure there really is an answer but to just hope the Sun solves the creep and crud, dweeb and so green behind the ears that it qualifies as fungus, problem...and of course the OP would have been eliminated early on. All should not I did not call anyone dwarfs, wannabe clerks, mental mice, pimple faced pissants or the result of sperm run through a sock, as I certainly would not want to offend anyone.

edit on 13-6-2011 by MajorKarma because: Typos



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 09:31 AM
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First off whatever ATS admin wanna do is upto them, its there site they both profit from it and also have to deal with all the unknowns {mostly crap} that goes on behind the scenes.

From my prospective ATS has grown and leans on the right wing side of both political and religious beliefs. Its been ages since I read or posted anything in the origin/creation forums. I don't post because the last time ATS overhauled this section, they banned most of the atheist posters, at least that's my point of view.

I have been here a long time and I know that some admin and mods and there relatives that post here have faith or are religious. So these kind of changes don't bother me or surprise me.

Anyway ask any news organization and they will tell you that sensationalism sells, ATS is for profit so this move doesn't make any sense unless its agenda motivated.

In the end we have to ask, does this move Deny Ignorance? Or is it catering to the religious, or the conservative right wing posters on ATS? Arguing between logic vs faith the topics should always be heated, this should be expected.

peace!



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 09:49 AM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 


Well, As much as I would like to defend the atheists, I will admit that we tend to get a bit obnoxious at times. May not be the original intent, however I personally have went from factual based postings to hinting at ridicule, to all out sarcastic belittlement in threads...again, not the original intent, but the concept itself (debating unicorns and deitys) tends to bring out the worst in people when they feel they are trying to dismiss the talks of the tooth fairy to a adult.

So, that mindset can quickly make someone feel intellectually superior to others, and the other end of that is, if you feel yourself superior, that makes opposing views inferior...and thats when things go from civil discussions to name calling.

If the warning and banning procedures focuses in on trying to curtail that, then sure..thats all fair game. I don't deny that many mods here are fundamental religious types whom would like for any atheists to simply disappear, however, I think the mods are chosen based on how they don't abuse their power when they desire to.

Some mods have overreacted, and I find that a respectul and calm u2u can often solve the conflict between you and the mod in question.

As far as changing the site to however they want...well, your right, they could..however, the formula that makes this site successfull is established..if you change the formula, then the sites success suffers.

A move to cut back on trolling in the OvC forum...well, I am on board with that (even though admittedly I will have to think twice before hitting the post button on occasion)..however, I don't think this is changing the formula.

the OPs needs to be a bit more clear though on what he personally is defining as a "conspiracy" when the whole subject itself is by nature, a conspiracy. Don't want to create a hostile environment for posting..that is supressive.





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