Changes Coming to Origins and Creationism.

Originally posted by intrepid
This forum has become a cesspool of bickering and trolling. This is coming to an end.

Wow....good luck trying to accomplish the impossible!

Seriously though...I've seen bickering and trolling in pretty much every section of ATS. All the things you've claimed about the theist VS atheist arguments would apply to nearly every topic on here...Are you guys going to overhaul the entire ATS site, then to be fair?

I'm not against what you want to achieve...But I think it doesn't really address the root problem. People in general seem to be getting more polarized in all their opinions, from politics to religion, to even music and art. It's something I'd love to stop but neither I, nor (as far as I can tell) you have not got the sort of Godlike (sorry atheists...no offense meant by that) powers it would take to change the way people as a whole think...thats really what you would have to do, if you wanted to actually address this problem....Just my opinion of course.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


I guess you could always post somewhere in BTS, although this forum does seem to fit your posts more. How often do conspiracies about evolution and creationism come up anyways?

Ok I haven't posted that much on ATS but I've been a very long time lurker. In my opinion I think ATS is choking on it's own high-handedness.

I completely agree with one of the posters on the previous page who pointed out that it's considered ok to link a video of a guy getting his head blown off but it's not ok to call someone an idiot. That is major A-grade BS and also one of the reasons why most of the intelligent posters stopped posting altogether. Because it's a farce.

I think it's more offensive that ultra religious douchebags blabber on and on relentlessly about the world ending and how we're all going to die because a space ghost doesn't like us. I don't see these people offer anything constructive or intelligent since they've already made up their mind that they're right and everyone else is wrong. You can't help but call such people idiots.

I really think sometimes a good shot of sarcasm/abuse whatever is just as effective as an 'intelligent' ten mile long post.

Actually it's pretty simple.

Want to fix the world? - Get rid of religion
Want to fix ATS? - Do the same

That's my two cents anyway (whether it matters or not).

Yes yes, I know....free speech yada yada

The powers who are in charge are laughing at us ATS users internal conflict. This is a sign of weakness and we should never emanate weakness unless we are already strong. I do not believe we are strong, we are still growing and fighting amongst ourselves for others to see, especially as this i the top headline story for the thousands of visitors shows internal conflict.

I must say... it gets tiring to browse over a page of a thread that has upwards of 50% of the posts deleted by mods.

I don't think it should be up to them though, I think people here should just grown up, stop trolling, and only commit to a conversation when they have something meaningful to say that adds layers to the conversation.

I myself only post in a thread when I feel as if my own thoughts about the subject being discussed will add different perception, and I never ever troll. Check my records, I'm clean

I'm glad that the staff are making this move. In the short term, it may seem harsh and draconian, but in the longterm, I'm sure it is going to help whip up this forum into the shape it needs to represent the high level of intelligent debate that people should expect from ATS.

Sometimes, people just need a good kick in the pants to get on the right track. I think that is exactly what the mods are doing, and while it may seem harsh- it's whats needed.

reply to post by AlphaBetaGammaX


I'd like to see an answer to this question myself. Here is the text of the post in question:

Originally posted by Shenroon
Does this forum also allow he debate of religion vs evolution/science as well or is that still in faith and spirituality



This forum is exactly where that should go.

reply to post by intrepid


As much as I hope this works, I can't be so sure that it will. Trolls are a dime a dozen lately. However, if the ATS staff is able to pull this off properly (without censoring intelligent posts - debatable - I know), I hope that they then apply this to ATS as a whole seeing as to how trolls and down right rude posters lurk in every forum and subforum. I would love to see the day when an OP is followed by posts that are intelligent and on topic without mudslinging and bickering.

Originally posted by Monts

I don't think it should be up to them though, I think people here should just grown up, stop trolling, and only commit to a conversation when they have something meaningful to say that adds layers to the conversation.

That's exactly where it gets messy and subjective. What one person deems meaningful, is meaningless to another. Belief systems are not constrained by truth, and by definition, is not a truth so where would one draw the line between what is an acceptable 'layer' and what is not?

IRM

reply to post by intrepid

Change, they say, is the only constant, but what change is being mooted here? Stricter moderation? All you’ll end up doing is strangle the forum.

A better idea would be to insist that Origins & Creationism is used for its intended purpose. This is stated on the top of every thread page in the forum:

This forum is dedicated to the discussion of the organized conspiracy to influence science education through the introduction of creationism and other non-scientific origin concepts. Discussion topics and follow-up responses in this forum will likely tend to lean in favor of conspiracies, scandals, and cover-ups.

In other words, it’s a forum for discussing the conspiratorial hijinks of creationists.

It is explicitly not a forum for debating the truth or otherwise of the theory of evolution. In this forum, the truth of evolution is not contested. See this stickied thread for confirmation.

In my view, this forum will improve in tone if the moderators actually do what they are supposed to do: prevent or penalize creationists from trolling the thread with laughable ‘disproofs’ of evolution and character attacks on ‘evolutionists’. Bring those to a halt, Intrepid, and I guarantee that you will have not only a more polite forum, but also a more intelligent one.

Of course creationists would still be welcome – to discuss the acknowledged creationist conspiracy and defend their side, but not to spam us with quotes from Answers in Genesis and argue about scientific theories they clearly do not, and do not wish to, understand. Accomplish that, my much-admired Canuck friend, and this forum will soon cease to be the Augean stables it now is.

Originally posted by Tephra
Disgusted at all the people supporting further censorship at ATS.

As if it wasn't already getting a bit heavy handed, deleting whole threads and posts without even so much as a U2U.

We don't need to be protected from bickering and arguments, we are adults.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Explain exactly how this is censorship

I honestly can't stand when people use the excuse you're using. You say:

"We don't need to be protected from bickering and arguments, we are adults."

Are you? Do you honestly see yourself as an adult when you bicker and argue with someone over the internet? We don't own this site. As a member, we agreed to follow their rules. If threads don't stay on-topic and it results in arguments or trolling, rules are broken and posts gets deleted along with entire threads if the arguing/trolling becomes too much. Then warnings or bannings go around.

It's little things like this that irk me. Some people act as if rules shouldn't apply to them. As if they're above others. There's nothing "adult" about that, that's just immature behavior. Any chance you're a member of "amkon"? If you want a site that deals in conspiracies and let's you post whatever you wish, you would fit in perfect there.

That place is paradise for people interested in sharing their thoughts/interests by arguing/insulting/trolling about it. Have a theory about something? Post it and watch what happens when people think it's ignorant. Members there are known for posting members personal information if they don't agree with something they say. Yeah, real mature stuff over there. Instead of trying intelligent conversation/debate, they'll just post your home address or phone number all over the place. Nothing that's happened to me personally, would never become a member of a site like that. that's just small snippets of posts I've seen when I spent 20 minutes to see what the site was all about. It's looks like the place where little troll kids from 4chan go when they hit an adult age, but still prefer to act like their 12.

any POV without evidence is faith.

only conspiracy is using religion to rule and rip off people.

Originally posted by nightmare_david

Originally posted by Tephra
Disgusted at all the people supporting further censorship at ATS.

As if it wasn't already getting a bit heavy handed, deleting whole threads and posts without even so much as a U2U.

We don't need to be protected from bickering and arguments, we are adults.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Explain exactly how this is censorship

I honestly can't stand when people use the excuse you're using. You say:

"We don't need to be protected from bickering and arguments, we are adults."

Are you? Do you honestly see yourself as an adult when you bicker and argue with someone over the internet? We don't own this site. As a member, we agreed to follow their rules. If threads don't stay on-topic and it results in arguments or trolling, rules are broken and posts gets deleted along with entire threads if the arguing/trolling becomes too much. Then warnings or bannings go around.

It's little things like this that irk me. Some people act as if rules shouldn't apply to them. As if they're above others. There's nothing "adult" about that, that's just immature behavior. Any chance you're a member of "amkon"? If you want a site that deals in conspiracies and let's you post whatever you wish, you would fit in perfect there.

That place is paradise for people interested in sharing their thoughts/interests by arguing/insulting/trolling about it.

Your rant is somewhat ironic, given that you are trying to shut down another members point of view by bickering and insulting them.

IRM

"....a cesspool of bickering and trolling."

Doesn't that apply to most of the site topics?

Is this in response to those who don't believe in creation getting sick of being beat up by the fact that evolution requires far more faith than anyone from any religion believing in a superior being? That question seems to raise the ire of evolitions who claim foul.

I find a similar thing in relation to homosexuals who claim people that don't agree with them are bigots yet think they free to slam religion any way they like. They want freedom of experession but cannot handle others who alo have freedom of expression to disagree.

I expect to be free to disagree with any statement anyone makes and visa versa if this is a site of true freedom.

Is ATS now being regulated like major media to support a certain group or train of thought?

I think it is.

Even if the Mods did not make said changes, I'm glad they made the claim. This is one of the most entertaining threads I've read. Beats people watching at the local mall all to hell!

Thank gods.

I despise biblebeaters and atheiestbeaters alike. I tire of them "knowing" what they think all of this is about and spewing thier "knowledge" around people who do and don't have a clue. As much as I dislike either group, I think they both have the right to get stars and flags as much as any other posts do. As for "calls of censorship", I do believe this is exactly what is happening. Why would you care if there is a posting war between the two groups (other than more work moderating). Most intelligent people would never click on either link to begin with.

The very thing that attracted me to ATS was the OPENNESS of the forums...no matter how crazy or unproveable the claims. To me, this is an outlet of pure human thought - unregulated and on display for all. Banning some group or group's postings based on the topic makes me wonder what topic is next. Thanks for a long run.

they had and may still have, a panel who determine what is over the top or too far under the radar for this site. at one time, at least one of the panel members represented the "religious" voice on the forum panel. if you were posing a conspiracy theory in which religion or religious texts played a role, the token "religious" member would have a voice in whether or not YOU or your topic were reputable/realistic enough to use ATS space in such a way. things may have changed a bit since (this was many years ago). one excuse used in the past by the token "religious" member, to block a semi religious conspiracy thread in UFO forum from being allowed to remain was that the OP actually had a fansite about harry potter somewhere in the distant past. i kid you not when the call was made for the panel to vote on its removal and to offer opinions on why or why not it should be removed, that was the excuse given by the token religious member.

the moral of the story is: everybody's got opinions.

p.s. and the really creepy part is, the op's harry potter site had only been up on the net for a month, and had been built for the op's child. and here it was 2 years later, long since gone from the internet archive or wayback machine, and yet the token religious member knew all about it and used it as the rationale for why the op's topic was not reputable. how's that for conspiratorial ?

(p.p.s. technically-speaking, the op wasn't the source of the problem, it was the op's guest on the op's radio program, that built the harry potter site and wrote controversial books that the token religious panel member disagreed with.)

reply to post by intrepid


Creationism is a conspiracy, there are people as we speak trying to get Creationism put in schools, which is wildly unconstitutional and they are conspiring to do it, even openly at times.

Don't get me wrong I understand wanting to keep the maturity level up and avoid bickering and trolling but it doesn't make sense to say that posts here have to include a conspiracy because any discussion on Creationism automatically includes a conspiracy.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by intrepid

 

Creationism is a conspiracy, there are people as we speak trying to get Creationism put in schools, which is wildly unconstitutional and they are conspiring to do it, even openly at times.

Don't get me wrong I understand wanting to keep the maturity level up and avoid bickering and trolling but it doesn't make sense to say that posts here have to include a conspiracy because any discussion on Creationism automatically includes a conspiracy.

yeah i think they should just make a separate class, a philosophical one, called "intelligent design" and then offer up some of the main positions on it, just like they do in world religions in college. creationism is one of many positions on the subject.

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

Not playing those games MIMS. The OP is clear. You are a prolific poster. From that I take it that you are intelligent. If you can't discern that for yourself one would have to assume an agenda and a willingness for being intentionally obtuse.

for a super moderator thats not very helpful is it...disappointed when i read that

some people could consider this thread as a perfect example of the trouble and disruption religion causes to every day life.