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Bill Nemitz: Ballot-box fraud? GOP fixes problem that isn't there

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posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 01:02 PM
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Bill Nemitz: Ballot-box fraud? GOP fixes problem that isn't there




It's called pulling a fast one, and the Maine Legislature just did it right before our eyes.

Wednesday evening, after a long, sometimes passionate debate, the Republican-controlled Senate fell into place behind the Republican-controlled House and, by an oh-so-close 18-17 vote, nixed a 38-year-old law allowing Mainers to register to vote on Election Day.

And why, pray tell, did they do that?

"I don't understand it. It's a head-scratcher to me," said Bangor City Clerk Patti Dubois, who is president of the Maine Association of Municipal Clerks, which opposed the move.

A quick recap:

Early on, Republicans who backed L.D. 1376, "An Act To Preserve the Integrity of the Voter Registration and Election Process," said it was all about voter fraud -- specifically, preventing politically motivated scoundrels from hopscotching all over Maine to vote multiple times in the same election.



www.pressherald.com...




posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 01:14 PM
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There are many recent examples of the GOP trying to manufacture elections by
preemptively constructing policies that will encourage their position. I think getting
people to vote is an important thing, it appears that the GOP realizes that same day
voter registration is not good for their prospects. The writer makes the argument that
multiple voting (casted by the same person) has only been discovered twice in the state
since the previous law was passed 38 years ago. I think the GOP is trying to gain advantage by
manipulating the system, it is legal, but I do not think it is right. Contrary to conventional thought,
the GOP sure like big government when it suits their agenda, wether it be using government
imposed ID schemes or legistlative outcomes. I do not support tampering with voting in any
capacity.

edit on 12-6-2011 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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I think we should just toss out the registration rolls and let anyone who walks in vote. We can't be too careful of infringing upon anyone's rights, afterall.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by vor78
I think we should just toss out the registration rolls and let anyone who walks in vote. We can't be too careful of infringing upon anyone's rights, afterall.



did I say that?

Americans voting is a good thing IMO, do you disagree?



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 


Same day registration is problematic because there is no technology linking polling places in real time with sufficient capability to ensure that the person has not voted down the street, then walked into a new polling place and vote again. Also nothing that can ensure that someone did not vote via absentee and then show up and vote again.

Enough of the tired old nonsense of voters being denied the right to vote. I'm guessing that most folks know when the election is. Its in November 2012. I'm guessing that anyone who is serious about voting can get themselves registered by then, especially when we have made it as easy as it is. Anyone who is so out of touch to need to register to vote on the day of the election has nobody to blame but themselves.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by Janky Red
 


Same day registration is problematic because there is no technology linking polling places in real time with sufficient capability to ensure that the person has not voted down the street, then walked into a new polling place and vote again. Also nothing that can ensure that someone did not vote via absentee and then show up and vote again.

Enough of the tired old nonsense of voters being denied the right to vote.


So are alleging that multiple voting in Maine is a problem? Do you have any evidence to support this veiled
assertion? If so, present it and we can discuss that as evidence to this thread.


Enough of the tired old, I can't look at things squarely because it makes my de-facto party look bad
mentality. It is a very intellectually cowardice way of interacting with the world around. Fact is the
GOP interferes the inception of voting very often, they have a track record of doing this. Technology
or registration to I.Ds, the GOP engages in this pattern, it benefits their party due to demographics.
I just think it is unsavory and pretty gross infact.

Here is an example of interference in the inception of voting, registration...

www.8newsnow.com...



(Oct. 13) -- Federal, state, and local officials are gathering information about allegations of voter registration fraud that were first raised Channel 8 Eyewitness News.

An employee of a private voter registration firm alleges that his bosses trashed registration forms filled out by Democratic voters because they only wanted to sign up Republican voters.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by dolphinfan
Anyone who is so out of touch to need to register to vote on the day of the election has nobody to blame but themselves.


Says you, says this new law, I am able to see that both cases are not restraints of nature or time,
the election has yet to happen, the polls have yet to close. That is so tough of you, you are
very rightious and responsible! Still doesn't change the fact that the constitution gives people the
right to vote and, that you and GOP would like to define that right to fit your opinions or motives.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by dolphinfan...
Anyone who is so out of touch to need to register to vote on the day of the election has nobody to blame but themselves.

Very true. It's not like elections are suddenly sprung upon the masses.

Ignorance is not an excuse.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 02:36 PM
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This makes complete sense and should happen everywhere. If your not registered before election day odds are your not planning on voting. What happens sometimes, which i've seen personally, is election staff will sometimes go to places and offer people things to vote for their candidate, bus them to the polling station, register them, and tell them who to vote for.

I worked for an aircraft manufacturer in the 80's and the dems did this every election with the union support. They'd show up and we would actually get paid time off work to ride the bus to go vote. No reason you should be waiting till the 11th hour if your concerned about voting.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 02:43 PM
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Well then, I see why so many people support dictatorial agendas, everyone is a dictator
waiting to get a microphone. Control, control, control, but... we want smaller governmnet!



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by abecedarian

Originally posted by dolphinfan...
Anyone who is so out of touch to need to register to vote on the day of the election has nobody to blame but themselves.


Ignorance is not an excuse.


But this is... :

Very true. It's not like elections are suddenly sprung upon the masses.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by Janky Red
There are many recent examples of the GOP trying to manufacture elections by
preemptively constructing policies that will encourage their position.


I can't see how the GOP will gain votes by doing this. Unless you mean it makes the voting process cleaner with less possiblility of fraud. Are you implying that the GOP gains an advantage by taking away the libs ability to cheat?

I don't care which party got this law passed. If it took away a loophole that allowed cheating it was a good thing. If the libs lose out because they need to cheat to win, then it's a real good thing.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by Kaiju

Originally posted by Janky Red
There are many recent examples of the GOP trying to manufacture elections by
preemptively constructing policies that will encourage their position.


I can't see how the GOP will gain votes by doing this. Unless you mean it makes the voting process cleaner with less possiblility of fraud. Are you implying that the GOP gains an advantage by taking away the libs ability to cheat?

I don't care which party got this law passed. If it took away a loophole that allowed cheating it was a good thing. If the libs lose out because they need to cheat to win, then it's a real good thing.



It is not cheating when an 18 year old wants to vote and is no aware of the registration process.
Many of my friends in their 20s and early 30's have never voted either (not sure why), the article states
that in 38 years there have been TWO detected instances of cheating. This is an attempt to shave of
democratic votes of youngsters and first time voters by the GOP. If the polls are not closed it is
also cheating people out of their right to vote. Again, there is no crisis of multiple voting in Maine
if there is please present your evidence.
edit on 12-6-2011 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 


If an 18 year old is not aware of the registration process that is his fault for being stupid. If he has the inclination to vote than that is something he needs to look into. It's a matter of spending 10 sec on the internet to find that information and frankly if he's that lazy than he doesn't need to be voting anyways.

If he misses this election because he did not feel the need to find the relevant information in an appropriate manner he now has that infomation for many future elections he can participate in.

People need to quit holding the hands of these people and let them take some responsiblilty. I can also guarantee you that if he didn't look into the registration process there's no way he researched the candidates positions on issues.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by kro32
reply to post by Janky Red
 


If an 18 year old is not aware of the registration process that is his fault for being stupid. If he has the inclination to vote than that is something he needs to look into. It's a matter of spending 10 sec on the internet to find that information and frankly if he's that lazy than he doesn't need to be voting anyways.

If he misses this election because he did not feel the need to find the relevant information in an appropriate manner he now has that infomation for many future elections he can participate in.

People need to quit holding the hands of these people and let them take some responsiblilty. I can also guarantee you that if he didn't look into the registration process there's no way he researched the candidates positions on issues.


I am not talking about holding hands, you are talking about... You are trying to justify a reason for
this specific political maneuver, it is not your business to judge the responsibility level of somebody,
if there is time on the clock, the polls are open and a person is eligible, a vote is not unreasonable.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 09:38 PM
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Perhaps people should stop worrying about all this hoopla over voting, and begin worrying about holding criminal politicians accountable to the rule of law. The problems with voter registration begin with the horrifying reality that only registered voters are considered to serve on a jury...that means if you are not a voter yourself, your fundamental right to a jury of your peers has just been noticeably diminished.

I say to hell with voting, and let the politicians vote themselves into office for all I care. What I am more concerned with are the fundamental rights of individuals. Voting does not make those rights, nor does it protect those rights, and it arguably tends to the opposite, which would be a steady erosion of rights, and a miserable record of protection of those rights, simply because the people voted it as such.

Students in American schools today are taught that the foundation of freedom lies in democratic principles of "one man one vote". This is egregious propaganda that is demonstrably false. The foundation of freedom lies in reverence and respect for individual rights. Care to vote on that, and see who agrees and disagrees? It matters not! The rule of law is not electable.



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


You are absolutely correct. The current notion pushed by the politicans and the media is that we have a rich democracy whereby you can exercise your freedom to vote for a candidate/party and thus are granted a significant freedom in doing so. Its a bunch of feel good nonsense.

When you have politicians and a government that on a daily basis seeks to remove your basic individual freedoms, it is immaterial who you are voting for. You are unable to vote to perserve those individual freedoms. Their preservation and your seeking to preserve them is categorized as anti-social, racist, selfish, unpatriotic, a thousand other pejoratives.

While it used to be that you, sterotypically, had the left destroying your economic freedoms via high taxes and over regulation, you had the right destroying your personal freedoms by the enlargement of the nation's law enforcement infrastructure. The two have now been joined and the two headed beast intent on stripping individual freedoms from the citizen is the option you are left with, albiet with different names, and stated objectives.

None of these politicans has an honest discussion about freedom. It is unpopular and the philosphical and subtle nature of the idea is lost on many. Health care, as an example. By forcing someone to buy insurance you are limiting their individual freedoms. By forcing someone to use a specific medical service/plan you are limiting their freedoms. The politicans will tell you that the greater good is served when these freedoms are destroyed and many agree with that. They agree with it because they are foolishly considering one issue at a time. The fail to consider that freedoms are a collective which grants power to the individual and that by destroying one freedom you diminish all others by some degree.

Few follow the path and envision what the society looks like when all of the individual freedoms are destroyed for the common good and that is exactly where this insidious creep is headed.
edit on 13-6-2011 by dolphinfan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 


The 18 year old certainly has the right to vote and is given ample opportunity to do so by the state. There are constraints placed on many of our rights, those constraints being put in place to ensure the fair and even distribution of equity under the law. You have a right to a speedy trial, but that does not mean you go before the judge tomorrow, it means that the state has the obligation to administer the court system in such a manner as to ensure that your case is heard within a reasonable period of time.

All functions that have administrative overhead have a process speed and accuracy rate that is related to the investment made, either in human or technical resources which govern them. It is a binary function where by investment directly impacts the quality (error rates) and speed. The state, having a level of infrastructure has determined that it can't effective ensure accurate election counts while at the same time allowing for same day registration.

Why is it that folks who continue to advocate for easier voting requirements, almost to the extent that there are none out of concern for the franchise of those who have been irresponsible in not preparing to register themselves have no concern for the fairness of the elections nor the franchise of those who have properly registered to vote?

As far as the only two cases of voter fraud in Maine, that is fantastic. It does not, however relieve the state from implementing policies that they believe will ensure a fair election.

There was a day when the elections in Chicago were fair as well.



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