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Comfort or conflict: Earlier Down syndrome test

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posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 02:29 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


What do you mean encourage life? Just because you can breed does not make you special...it is how you take care of that life that makes it so. It is how you regard life around you that makes you worthy...otherwise you're simply human refuse.




posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 02:37 AM
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Originally posted by laiguana
reply to post by beezzer
 


What do you mean encourage life? Just because you can breed does not make you special...it is how you take care of that life that makes it so. It is how you regard life around you that makes you worthy...otherwise you're simply human refuse.


Perhaps I said it wrong. You actually stated it better.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 04:17 AM
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The most important question in this thread is: Are you ready to raise a child with down syndrome?
Stop the abortion debate and just think about this.

Are you willing to do that?



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 05:07 AM
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reply to post by Pankaka
 


that is the crux of the issue. but let me answer with a question of my own:

are you ready to kill a child because you aren't ready to raise them? are you willing to do that?

you have to choose between what is right, and what is easy.
edit on 12-6-2011 by Bob Sholtz because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 06:57 AM
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Originally posted by Exuberant1
Not magic, just sacred.


If it's sacred to you, then don't have an abortion. It's not sacred to everyone. I don't have expectations that what's important to me should automatically hold just as importance to everyone else. I can't figure why some people think that way.

I don't see a problem with this early testing. If I had a choice of raising a child with Downs or without, I would definitely choose not to raise a disabled child. And if medical science can help, I think we should employ it.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 07:04 AM
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reply to post by Bob Sholtz
 


Yes, I am willing to abort the downey.

[snip] NO DOWNEYS IN MY HOUSE!
edit on 12/6/11 by masqua because: removed profanity



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 07:23 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Not magic, just sacred.


If it's sacred to you, then don't have an abortion. It's not sacred to everyone. I don't have expectations that what's important to me should automatically hold just as importance to everyone else. I can't figure why some people think that way.

I don't see a problem with this early testing. If I had a choice of raising a child with Downs or without, I would definitely choose not to raise a disabled child. And if medical science can help, I think we should employ it.

Hi BH. Definitely to each their own. Not trying to make this a contentious thread but one where information is provided and opinions exchanged. Abortion is such a hot-button topic.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by Pankaka
reply to post by Bob Sholtz
 


Yes, I am willing to abort the downey.

[snip] NO DOWNEYS IN MY HOUSE!
edit on 12/6/11 by masqua because: removed profanity


With the folks that have contributed to this thread with Downs Syndrome relatives, I have to say that your post was quite inappropriate.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 07:49 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer
What will be next? Short people? Brown hair? People with vision problems, heart problems, CF, an alphabet soup of disease names?
www.breitbart.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


I hate to say it but this is already happening. People with the money to do it can easily choose their kids genetics.
just one example - articles.nydailynews.com...

Personally? I would not abort a child with downs syndrome - even the severe ones are pretty smart - but I don't feel like I have any right to tell anyone else what to do with thier body

In fact, I can't think of any illness or disease that I would abort for if I really wanted a child - on the other hand, I can think of an incredible number of selfish reasons that I think are better reasons than illness

is it murder? freak if I know - I'd have to say no, otherwise everytime I ovulate and fail to get pregnant then I'm killing potential children.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 08:00 AM
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reply to post by Forevever
 


Thanks for replying. Though, it's only "murder" if your eggs are fertilized. I know we get into the realm of semantics when discussing this. Life, potential life, whe does it become a human. . . .

The greatest dichotomy on the subject of abortion is when a pregnant woman is murdered. Then the child is considered a life and the murderer is charged for two deaths.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer
Thanks for replying. Though, it's only "murder" if your eggs are fertilized. I know we get into the realm of semantics when discussing this. Life, potential life, whe does it become a human. . . .

The greatest dichotomy on the subject of abortion is when a pregnant woman is murdered. Then the child is considered a life and the murderer is charged for two deaths.


Thats an excellent example of the double standards in law where "children" are concerned.

If a woman throws away a baby, but they prove it never took a breath, she's not charged.
If a murderer kills a woman and a fetus of any age, double murder.
If a 10 year old commits murder, he can be tried as an adult - but 15 year olds aren't "developed" enough to decide if they want to have sex....

Semantics.....

Like I said, in my mind, no illness is good enough reason FOR ME to abort.
But if i was pregnant and didn't want the kid, morally I think its my obligation to put its "soul" back in the queue (hypothetical reincarnation) - Yes ok I do understand there are people in the world who want a baby and can't have one - BUT THERE ARE ALSO MILLIONS of children (not yelling, just emphasizing) in the world that are in unwanted situations - they should go adopt them first before worrying about the (hypothetical) fetus that I failed to bring to term.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 08:14 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


I believe you've made quite a leap there. People with brown hair don't require 24/7 care nor do the short ones.
Down syndrome people do. I believe it should be the decision of the parents and if an earlier test can save everyone a lot of heartache, I absolutely applaud it.
edit on 12-6-2011 by Bee2010 because: edit



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 08:27 AM
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Its a hard debate and im really not sure what is the wrong and right answer,

I beleive early testing is a good thing in some ways but bad in others- many pointed out within this thread,

Personally i would be tested, If the child did have downs then i would have no issue in raising the child, Knowing would only help me prepare better for the childes arrival,

In the UK most women are tested from the age of 30 when in child birth anyway,

I think its a personal choice,

And i would honestly say if others have not met a child with this illness then you should! They are the most wonderfull humans i have ever met,
Really it makes me wonder what we class as perfect these days, I aspire to love as much as they do, We can learn so much from people we class as *not perfect*

Anyhows just my feelings on the matter, x
edit on 12-6-2011 by asala because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 08:27 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


someone has to be right, and someone wrong. there are absolutes, and just because someone doesn't want something to be true doesn't make it false. example:

i wish we weren't in the middle east, but we are.

in the same way, saying "what's true for you is true for you, and what's true for me is true for me" is illogical when the two views conflict on a concrete matter.

either people become people at conception, or they aren't people at all. unless you can point to an exact biological time when a person becomes a person, then you must accept the above to be true.

the universe, in a few seconds after the big bang, was still the universe. it changed, grew in size, and formed into different parts over time, sure, but still the universe.

its the same with a fertilized egg.

methinks claiming "its not a person" is a way to take the easy path without feeling guilt.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer


Don't we, as conscious and sentient beings, also have the responsibility to encourage life when we can?


How can conscious and sentient beings have a culture that worships war and the blood industries that feed it.
That is a far cry from encouraging life.

Hypocritically promote life on one hand but worship death, torture, pain and destruction in the name of nationalism, on the other.

Thankfully schizophrenic cultures spontaneously abort themselves in time.

laiguana said it best....




What do you mean encourage life? Just because you can breed does not make you special...it is how you take care of that life that makes it so. It is how you regard life around you that makes you worthy...otherwise you're simply human refuse.

edit on 12-6-2011 by whaaa because: code 34



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by Pankaka
reply to post by Bob Sholtz
 


Yes, I am willing to abort the downey.

[snip] NO DOWNEYS IN MY HOUSE!
edit on 12/6/11 by masqua because: removed profanity


you sir, are dispicable


were there a genetic test for people like you, i would reverse my opinions on abortion for similar cases.

i'm "disabled", and because of this my brain functions in unique ways and makes connections much faster than yours and holds them for longer. it has drawbacks, but it also has benefits.

how many geniuses have been killed simply to avoid responsibility?



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by Bob Sholtz
 


What don't you understand about "NO DOWNEYS" in the "UNITED STATES of AMERICA."

Get out if you don't like it.
edit on 12-6-2011 by Pankaka because: American Eagle



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by beezzer


Don't we, as conscious and sentient beings, also have the responsibility to encourage life when we can?


How can conscious and sentient beings have a culture that worships war and the blood industries that feed it.
That is a far cry from encouraging life.

Hypocritically promote life on one hand but worship death, torture, pain and destruction in the name of nationalism, on the other.

Thankfully schizophrenic cultures spontaneously abort themselves in time.

laiguana said it best....




What do you mean encourage life? Just because you can breed does not make you special...it is how you take care of that life that makes it so. It is how you regard life around you that makes you worthy...otherwise you're simply human refuse.

edit on 12-6-2011 by whaaa because: code 34


Beautifully said.
2nd.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by Bee2010
reply to post by beezzer
 


I believe you've made quite a leap there. People with brown hair don't require 24/7 care nor do the short ones.
Down syndrome people do. I believe it should be the decision of the parents and if an earlier test can save everyone a lot of heartache, I absolutely applaud it.
edit on 12-6-2011 by Bee2010 because: edit


Today it's Downs. Tomorrow? That's why I brought it up.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by whaaa
 


Apples/oranges. Political machinations and the life of an innocent are as far apart as truth and politics.



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