Why do you WANT chemtrails to be real?

The only people I can think of who would want chem trails to be real would be the military who are spraying them.

Originally posted by filosophia
The only people I can think of who would want chem trails to be real would be the military who are spraying them.

Source?

Originally posted by topherman420
Distrust of the government, monotonous lives, a need to feel important and a part of something can be a few reasons why this 'movement' of chemtrailers has taken off. If anything its a sad reflection on society as a whole since theres alot of CTers out there, to think, what the heck is going wrong with us.

I think these apply to conspiracies in general - this blog has an interesting take on them - www.newint.org...

To citizen - I don't WANT chemtrails to be not real - I KNOW they are not real.

I WANT the conspiracy to stop slandering me.

Because I have worked as a mechanic for airliens and for maintenance companies, and for the local regulator all my working life, and if chemtrails were real than I'd be part of it - when I was a kid in the 60's and 70's I used to see horizon-to-horizon contrails sometimes above my head on a route betwen 2 citiesd each about 200 miles from wher I lived - and when I started my apprenticeshion in 1976 I worked on those very same jets - there were no other jets flying internal routes in this country.

Then I worked for another airline, in maintenance planning and quality assurance and for the local regulator.

reply to post by adeclerk
Eesh, for someone who's intentions are so transparent in debunking 'chemtrails', you sure seem to be completely obsessed by them. Why?

My answer would depend on the purpose of the chemtrails in the first place. Have seen some good large lingering contrails and have even made a post about some huge ones in the pacific before, but I've never seen evidence of chemicals falling out of them.

This whole chemtrail believer vs. debunker fiasco has been going on for so long now, and what's hilarious is neither side can provide absolute proof either way.

Can airplanes fly high? Yes. Can they release cargo while in flight? Yes.
So is dropping chemicals from an airplane possible? Yes. Have they been proven or debunked either way? No. So, people like the OP will continue their fight to debunk them as long as believers continue to suggest they exist. All the while the possibility of them existing is 100%, this might help to explain some debunkers obsession with them.

I for one took a look at this subject with interest, found some of the debunkers here to have enough knowledge to explain away most chemtrails as contrails, but at this point in time the entire topic is a dead horse. And this forum has more debunkers posting in it than actual geo engineering content. *boggle* One heck of a mission you guys are on!

Lastly does being an airplane mechanic or pilot automatically put you 'in the know' in all things aviation (whether private/military/government)? Critical thinking engaged, results say... No.

Originally posted by Sek82
Eesh, for someone who's intentions are so transparant in debunking 'chemtrails', you sure seem to be completely obsessed by them. Why?

How can I be obsessed with something that doesn't exist?

Originally posted by Sek82

My answer would depend on the purpose of the chemtrails in the first place. Have seen some good large lingering contrails and have even made a post about some huge ones in the pacific before, but I've never seen evidence of chemicals falling out of them.

Neither has anyone else.

Originally posted by Sek82
This whole chemtrail believer vs. debunker fiasco has been going on for so long now, and what's hilarious is neither side can provide absolute proof either way

You're not entirely wrong, see, neither side can prove anything, but there is no evidence to support one of the sides. Can you guess which?

Originally posted by Sek82
Can airplanes fly high? Yes. Can they release cargo while in flight? Yes.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Originally posted by Sek82
So is dropping chemicals from an airplane possible? Yes. Have they been proven or debunked either way? No.

This is where you are completely wrong. We could easily see evidence of this 'chemtrailing' in water, soil, or even air samples. But we haven't, can you tell me why that is?

Originally posted by Sek82
So, people like the OP will continue their fight to debunk them as long as believers continue to suggest they exist. All the while the possibility of them existing is 100%, this might help to explain some debunkers obsession with them.

There is always the possibility, but you would have to be ignorant of logic to conclude that they are occuring.

Originally posted by Sek82
Lastly does being an airplane mechanic or pilot automatically put you 'in the know' in all things aviation (whether private/military/government)? Critical thinking engaged, results say... No.

Right? I've always wondered why the testimony of a pilot or two, and a mechanic, anonymously over the internet is always used as smoking gun evidence by chemmies.

Originally posted by Sek82
[This whole chemtrail believer vs. debunker fiasco has been going on for so long now, and what's hilarious is neither side can provide absolute proof either way.

chemtrailers CAN positively prove that chemtrails exist - some credible samples of materials (eg jet fuel, atmosphere from "chemtrails", anything else along with sugfficient evidence to link it to aircraft), some aircraft with nozzles or unexplained tanks (not actual proof - but a good start), or some trucks filling a/c with unknown substances (ditto), some samples of whatever the substances are, some bills of lading, evidence of manufacture, transport or storage, some verifiable eyewitness testimony from someone in on the conspiracy, etc.

All of these would be verifiable evidence supporting the existence of chemtrails.

Lastly does being an airplane mechanic or pilot automatically put you 'in the know' in all things aviation (whether private/military/government)? Critical thinking engaged, results say... No.

Of course not - I'm an aircraft mechanic, and I know positively that aircraft I have worked on left very long contrails and had no strange equipment fitted, nor did they use stange fuel, or have anything odd about them at all.

There were initially only a couple of handfuls of domestic civilian jets here in the mid 1970's when I started work, they produced the long contrails I had seen since they were introduced in the late 1960's (almost directly overhead of where I lived on a particular route between 2 cities), and I worked on every single one of them as an apprentice and then a tradesman mechanic.

I know this for those aircraft for an absolute fact. And from contacts in the industry I have reasonable cause to believe the situation is the same everywhere else - I have worked for the local regulator, for a couple of airlines and for a 3rd party maintenance organisation.

And I am sufficienty technically trained to look at an aircraft and say what most of the fittings & features are - even on types I did not work on. I have been taught a bit about the atmosphere, studied a bit of science at school, trade training and university, and havea curious bent about aircraft - ever since I discovered "The Observers Book of Aircraft" when I was about 12 or 13.

I do not claim to KNOW everything - but I do claim to KNOW that long contrails exist - lasting hours - that they continue to be made, that no aircraft in this country that make them are fitted with any strange equipment, nor is the fuel doctored, nor is there anything else that I know of that exists that might explain the existence of contrils other than them being contrails.

that is called deductive reasoning - coming to a conclusion from known facts. It does not actually require absolute knowledge of everything that exists, and if you find any verifiable evidence that contradicts it then I'll change my mind in accordance with that evidence.

reply to post by adeclerk


Here is my question to you: Why do people constantly try to disprove chemtrials? If you don't believe in them join another thread like Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster.

The fact is people are seeing planes spray stuff in the sky and do flight formations making Xs and circles etc.., as if they are aerobatics.You can see one plane make a chemtrail and the next plane at the same altitude make a normal contrail. It defies the science of contrails.

The military has been researching this stuff for over 50 years. It is obvious to any intelligent person that something is going on.

What proves it more is that their is a campaign against the chemtrail believers to discredit them and prove them wrong. This proves to me they are real.

Originally posted by afw2121
Here is my question to you: Why do people constantly try to disprove chemtrials? If you don't believe in them join another thread like Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster.

Because this is the one conspiracy that is easily disprovable, and yet there are so many ignorants parroting lines they read on 'chemtrail' sites, and the same debunked evidence, over and over.

Originally posted by afw2121
The fact is people are seeing planes spray stuff in the sky and do flight formations making Xs and circles etc.., as if they are aerobatics.

Yeah, people talk a lot. Most all of this has been debunked, use the search function.

Originally posted by afw2121
You can see one plane make a chemtrail and the next plane at the same altitude make a normal contrail. It defies the science of contrails.

You can't tell the altitude from the ground. One airplane was flying at an altitude with necessary conditions for contrail formation, the other at a different flight level that didn't have the same conditions. The atmosphere is not homogenous. Your thinking is defying logic.

Originally posted by afw2121
The military has been researching this stuff for over 50 years. It is obvious to any intelligent person that something is going on.

What stuff? What's going on!?

Originally posted by afw2121
What proves it more is that their is a campaign against the chemtrail believers to discredit them and prove them wrong. This proves to me they are real.

You have proof of nothing other than the fact that you are paranoid and believe the other chemtrail hoaxers.

I don't mind matters of belief, but in 'chemtrails' it's either you ignore evidence to believe in them, or you study basic meteorology, science, and logic to deny ignorance.

reply to post by adeclerk


Here is another that is full time....

If chemtrails are so easily debunked... Stop spending your time disproving all of the documents, pictures, and eye witness testimony we provide. Find a new hobby because us, chemtrail believers, are out for the truth of what is going on.

In the court of law, an eye witness is the highest proof of fact. This is what people here on ATS have provided for the chemtrails and it would stand up in the court of law.

We have your point and many other posters that keep posting to disprove the chemtriails. However, it is people like you who provide the fuel that suggest that something is going on.

Why such the campaign against the chemtrail believers?

reply to post by afw2121

In a court of law eyewitness testimony has resulted in many innocent people being convicted.
www.innocenceproject.org...
www.spring.org.uk...

The "campaign" is against ignorance. Some people aren't sure. It's good to make sure that they get as much information as possible.

reply to post by Phage


Wow how many user names do you use on ATS? I see that you are keeping up with me.

You can disagree with the eye-witness as the highest proof of testimony, but the US courts have not changed it. So, it is very relevant especially to chemtrails. We provide pictures, videos, documents, and eye-witness testimony.

reply to post by afw2121

You can disagree with the eye-witness as the highest proof of testimony, but the US courts have not changed it.

Please provide evidence that eyewitness testimony is the "highest proof".

You provide pictures and videos of contrails. You provide poorly done water and soil tests. You provide documents about proposals. You provide no proof.

reply to post by adeclerk

A question for the chemtrail cult, why do you WANT chemtrails to be real? You constantly defend them, pick and choose "geo-engineering" research as "chemtrail proof", and defy logic, reason, science, and high school level meteorology. All for what? Why do you WANT them to be spraying?

Interesting that you use elementary-school-level logic to try to open an adult debate.

Good luck with that.

reply to post by adeclerk


If you got us and you just have to believe like us.... Then leave these threads if you try to disprove everything we post. Find a new thread that you care about and post facts to support it.

Originally posted by NightGypsy
Interesting that you use elementary-school-level logic to try to open an adult debate.

Where?

I find it interesting that you couldn't answer the question.

Originally posted by afw2121
reply to post by adeclerk

 

If you got us and you just have to believe like us.... Then leave these threads if you try to disprove everything we post. Find a new thread that you care about and post facts to support it.

Sorry that I'm challenging your faith? The 'chemtrail' cult is full of dishonesty, hoaxers, and people who are genuinely ignorant. Why would I not want to guide people toward the truth, if it would make them less paranoid (and actually open their minds to evidence, logic, and reason)?

reply to post by adeclerk


This is coming from someone who doesn't believe in them, but I've never heard anyone say they wanted them to be real, usually people who claim they are real, are to busying getting trolled by debunkers to even speak their opinions...lol

reply to post by afw2121

Wow how many user names do you use on ATS? I see that you are keeping up with me.

afw2121, no offense, but what are you trying to say? Are you suggesting Phage and the OP are one in the same? Come on. I understand this is a topic you are passionate about and so am I, but try not to let your emotions cloud your ability to debate this topic with a clear head. I'm seeing more knee-jerk reactions from you than anything else in these threads.

I have no idea what Phage's intentions are or what his background is, but when he does show up in the threads, he refrains from personal attacks.

Nevermind

reply to post by adeclerk


Again I was giving my input (from the perspective of someone who doesn't believe in them), but yeah thanks for starting another thread about chemtrails, that will more than likely turn into a troll feast ( like the other threads on this subject)...