Its happend before, so why not now?

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
Can planes not be modified? I thought to someone of your vast knowledge that would be obvious.

Oh, they certainly can be modified. But not a single one has been shown to be modified for 'chemtrailing'. Ever.

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

I dont think ANYONE will disagree with you that experiments haven't happened . Most chemtrail believers are saying its happening NOW,and its NOT an experiment. Is this what you believe?

Well there are experiments going on, aren't there? The barium cloud experiments come to mind. Spraying chemicals in the upper atmosphere is half the wiki definition of a chemtrail. The only reason its doesn't fit the full discription is because we know of it. If the government kept it secret, it would fit the full discription of a chemtrail.

As I said before, imo, 50/50 chance. No worldwide plans but maybe small scale. Its not like the pharma industry and the defense industry have run out of things to test.

Become an environmentalist. We could use you. Your efforts,and time could be the difference. PEACE.

I'm a nature lover and would gladly have all the hydro dams in my province removed at the sacrifice of billions of dollars from selling power to the US. Just don't ask me to join Greenpeace.

Originally posted by adeclerk
Oh, they certainly can be modified. But not a single one has been shown to be modified for 'chemtrailing'. Ever.

Wrong.

The U.S. Air Force loaned the Army a C-119, "Flying Boxcar", and it was used to disperse zinc cadmium sulfide by the ton in the atmosphere over the United States.

Operation LAC

The Army Chemical Corps sprayed the compound in dispersion tests to determine how biological weapons might spread if used in various environments, seeking data both on how to use such weapons and on how to defend against them.

TNYT

Can't wait to see what you come up with next.

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
Oh, dropping chemicals of any kind on a population without their knowledge isn't a experiment? Truly puzzeling.

Who was it dropped on?

You said you read the article and you ask this?

Operation LAC was undertaken in 1957 and 1958 by the U.S. Army Chemical Corps. Principally, the operation involved spraying large areas with zinc cadmium sulfide. The U.S. Air Force loaned the Army a C-119, "Flying Boxcar", and it was used to disperse zinc cadmium sulfide by the ton in the atmosphere over the United States. The first test occurred on December 2, 1957 along a path from South Dakota to International Falls, Minnesota.

LAC

I should add some of the chemicals drifted into Canada. Yeah.

Originally posted by adeclerk
I don't call using hairspray 'chemtrailing', so why would crop dusting, cloud seeding, etc be chemtrailing?

Well, you see, i have never heard of anyone applying hairspray with a aircraft. Have you?

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


That isn't chemtrailing, did you read the definition I sent you? It's the one that most chemmies agree on (well, there isn't much agreement in the chemtrail community, for obvious reasons).

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


"Who" as in, name someone who it was dropped on. Who had adverse health effects. I'll wait.

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

"Who" as in, name someone who it was dropped on. Who had adverse health effects. I'll wait.

The secret spraying took place in Minneapolis and surrounding areas; Corpus Christi, Tex.; Fort Wayne, Ind.; St. Louis and in 29 other urban and rural areas in the United States and Canada, the report said.

Senator Paul D. Wellstone and Representative Martin Olav Sabo, both Minnesota Democrats, had pushed for an investigation of the testing. Mr. Wellstone said the release of the long-awaited study might not put everyone's fears to rest, but represented ''encouraging news for the many families who have worried over the years about their exposure to this chemical.''

''No one should ever have been subjected to these tests,'' Senator Wellstone said, ''but this study indicates that many of our fears may not have been realized.''

TNYT

The artile doesn't name specific individuals but its obvious concerned citizens wanted a investigation and there was enough evidence to warrant one.

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

That isn't chemtrailing, did you read the definition I sent you? It's the one that most chemmies agree on (well, there isn't much agreement in the chemtrail community, for obvious reasons).

I want your opinion on what we should classify or call chemicals being dispersed from a aircraft then.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
I want your opinion on what we should classify or call chemicals being dispersed from a aircraft then.

Let's settle on a definition of "chemicals", from the Oxford English Dictionary:

Chemical: A distinct substance or compound, esp. one which has been chemically prepared or purified. Freq. in pl.

So people are not chemicals (although they are MADE from chemicals, in a sense). Aircraft exhaust you could argue, but let's say we're not talking about that.

Are fire retardant, corexit, and insecticides chemicals? Yes. I would call them being dispersed from an airplay "spraying". Or "chemical spraying".

"Chemtrails" is what it says in the wikipedia definition. Adding other things just clouds the issue.

en.wikipedia.org...

The term chemtrail is derived from "chemical trail" in the similar fashion that contrail is a portmanteau of condensation trail. It does not refer to common forms of aerial spraying such as crop dusting, cloud seeding, skywriting, or aerial firefighting.[7] The term specifically refers to aerial trails allegedly caused by the systematic high-altitude release of chemical substances not found in ordinary contrails, resulting in the appearance of uncharacteristic sky tracks.

Chemtrails is just an alternate theory to explain things like this:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/17a45a1bc964.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

That isn't chemtrailing, did you read the definition I sent you? It's the one that most chemmies agree on (well, there isn't much agreement in the chemtrail community, for obvious reasons).

I want your opinion on what we should classify or call chemicals being dispersed from a aircraft then.

Well, if I had to venture a guess, I'd say it falls under commercial aviation (if done by a company) and military aviation. It isn't even remotely similar to what purported 'chemtrails' are, anyways.

Originally posted by Uncinus

So people are not chemicals (although they are MADE from chemicals, in a sense). Aircraft exhaust you could argue, but let's say we're not talking about that.

I used people comprised of chemicals as an example of a 'chemtrail' to illustrate the absurdity in his definition of 'chemtrails'.

I think it was pretty fair and accurate.

Originally posted by adeclerk
Well, if I had to venture a guess, I'd say it falls under commercial aviation (if done by a company) and military aviation.

Thats utterly ridiculas.

Commercial aviation? If that isn't the most vague and undescriptive definition I have ever seen typed here I don't know what is. That definition encompasses the entire avaition industry.

Thats trying very hard not to answer my question logicaly.

Try being a little more specific when classifying the procedure of spraying chemicals by aircraft.

Originally posted by adeclerk
It isn't even remotely similar to what purported 'chemtrails' are, anyways.

The term chemtrail is derived from "chemical trail" in the similar fashion that contrail is a portmanteau of condensation trail. It does not refer to common forms of aerial spraying such as crop dusting, cloud seeding, skywriting, or aerial firefighting. The term specifically refers to aerial trails allegedly caused by the systematic high-altitude release of chemical substances not found in ordinary contrails, resulting in the appearance of uncharacteristic sky tracks. Supporters of this theory speculate that the purpose of the chemical release may be for solar radiation management, population control, weather control, or biological warfare/chemical warfare and claim that these trails are causing respiratory illnesses and other health problems.

Wiki

I see you're point, but as I said before the point of this thread is to prove chemtrails exist in general. The definition says " It does not refer to common forms of aerial spraying such as crop dusting, cloud seeding, skywriting, or aerial firefighting." because they are know activities.

If barium cloud seeding was kept secret today would it not fit the description of a chemtrail?

The definition also says "uncharacteristic sky tracks." not specificaly contrails. I think some of you debunkers are hung up on that because of all the BS photos out there. A chemtrail does not have to look exactly like a contrail to fit the definition.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
Thats utterly ridiculas.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
Commercial aviation? If that isn't the most vague and undescriptive definition I have ever seen typed here I don't know what is. That definition encompasses the entire avaition industry.

Oh, does it? It's almost like that was the point, it's an industry.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
Thats trying very hard not to answer my question logicaly.

Your claims of 'chemtrails' that deviate from the normal definition made me think you didn't care all too much for logic.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
Try being a little more specific when classifying the procedure of spraying chemicals by aircraft.

Alright, it's chemical spraying. It's also well documented, unlike 'chemtrails'.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker

The term chemtrail is derived from "chemical trail" in the similar fashion that contrail is a portmanteau of condensation trail. It does not refer to common forms of aerial spraying such as crop dusting, cloud seeding, skywriting, or aerial firefighting. The term specifically refers to aerial trails allegedly caused by the systematic high-altitude release of chemical substances not found in ordinary contrails, resulting in the appearance of uncharacteristic sky tracks. Supporters of this theory speculate that the purpose of the chemical release may be for solar radiation management, population control, weather control, or biological warfare/chemical warfare and claim that these trails are causing respiratory illnesses and other health problems.

Wiki

I see your point, but as I said before the point of this thread is to prove chemtrails exist in general.

And yet you haven't. Where are these chemtrails? Where are the chemplanes?

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
The definition says " It does not refer to common forms of aerial spraying such as crop dusting, cloud seeding, skywriting, or aerial firefighting." because they are know activities.

Interesting, so everything in your thread is not a chemtrail, since it's all known activities.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
If barium cloud seeding was kept secret today would it not fit the description of a chemtrail?

The definition also says "uncharacteristic sky tracks." not specificaly contrails. I think some of you debunkers are hung up on that because of all the BS photos out there. A chemtrail does not have to look exactly like a contrail to fit the definition.

If barium cloud seeding was real, it would be known and used by cloud seeding operations, or show up in research?

Right, people claim that persistent contrails are the uncharacteristic sky tracks, absurd isn't it?

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker

The term chemtrail is derived from "chemical trail" in the similar fashion that contrail is a portmanteau of condensation trail. It does not refer to common forms of aerial spraying such as crop dusting, cloud seeding, skywriting, or aerial firefighting. The term specifically refers to aerial trails allegedly caused by the systematic high-altitude release of chemical substances not found in ordinary contrails, resulting in the appearance of uncharacteristic sky tracks. Supporters of this theory speculate that the purpose of the chemical release may be for solar radiation management, population control, weather control, or biological warfare/chemical warfare and claim that these trails are causing respiratory illnesses and other health problems.

Wiki

I see you're point, but as I said before the point of this thread is to prove chemtrails exist in general. The definition says " It does not refer to common forms of aerial spraying such as crop dusting, cloud seeding, skywriting, or aerial firefighting." because they are know activities.

If barium cloud seeding was kept secret today would it not fit the description of a chemtrail?

The definition also says "uncharacteristic sky tracks." not specificaly contrails. I think some of you debunkers are hung up on that because of all the BS photos out there. A chemtrail does not have to look exactly like a contrail to fit the definition

Well, no it does not, and in fact a big part of the theory is the claim that the trails look, or behave differently. However nobody has actually shown a "chemtrail" that is not behaving how some contrails behave, so that part of the theory has been largely discredited.

More simply put, "chemtrails" are those white lines in the sky that people point to and say "chemtrails".

Maybe there's some secret poison testing program going on that does NOT produce trails. But since people are clearly referring to the visible trails, then you'd probably want to choose a different name for the invisible ones. Why not just call it "secret poison tests on civilians", for clarity?

But for chemtrails, people are talking about stuff that looks like this:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c25769332b61.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by adeclerk
Alright, it's chemical spraying. It's also well documented, unlike 'chemtrails'.

And the only diference between the two is one is official and the other is not. Other than that the procedure they both perform is the same. Disperal of chemicals by aircraft.

Interesting, so everything in your thread is not a chemtrail, since it's all known activities.

Really? Just how many times are you going to conveniently forget operation LAC? Top secret spraying of chemicals at high altitude, which certainly left uncharacteristic marks in the sky is not the definition of chemtrails all of a sudden?

If barium cloud seeding was real, it would be known and used by cloud seeding operations, or show up in research?

Its not?

Ionization and Expansion of Barium Clouds in the Ionosphere

A three‐dimensional time‐dependent model was used to study the ionization and plasma expansion characteristics of barium clouds released in the ionosphere. Neutral gas clouds with a total mass of 1 kg were released with a spherical Gaussian density distribution and the subsequent photoionization by solar UV radiation and ion cloud expansion were modeled. The results from three simulations are presented: a cloud without a directional velocity; a cloud with an initial velocity of 5 km/s across the B field; and a cloud with initial velocity components of 2 km/s both along and across the B field.

Link

Right, people claim that persistent contrails are the uncharacteristic sky tracks, absurd isn't it?

Yes, indeed it is.

Originally posted by Uncinus
Well, no it does not, and in fact a big part of the theory is the claim that the trails look, or behave differently. However nobody has actually shown a "chemtrail" that is not behaving how some contrails behave, so that part of the theory has been largely discredited.

Sorry, but it sure does.

The term specifically refers to aerial trails allegedly caused by the systematic high-altitude release of chemical substances not found in ordinary contrails, resulting in the appearance of uncharacteristic sky tracks.

Wiki

More simply put, "chemtrails" are those white lines in the sky that people point to and say "chemtrails".
But for chemtrails, people are talking about stuff that looks like this:

I know and I am not on that bandwagon. Unless someone gets a good sample to prove 100% I'll have to stick with 99% likely a contrail. There are alot of marks in the sky however and there is a chance one could be a actual chemtrail. It can't be dismissed 100% but nor can it be proven 100%.

As I have said time and again, the thread was made to prove chemtrails have and did exist 50 years ago so the ability and possibility of chemtrails can't be dismissed today.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker

If barium cloud seeding was real, it would be known and used by cloud seeding operations, or show up in research?

Its not?

Ionization and Expansion of Barium Clouds in the Ionosphere

A three‐dimensional time‐dependent model was used to study the ionization and plasma expansion characteristics of barium clouds released in the ionosphere. Neutral gas clouds with a total mass of 1 kg were released with a spherical Gaussian density distribution and the subsequent photoionization by solar UV radiation and ion cloud expansion were modeled. The results from three simulations are presented: a cloud without a directional velocity; a cloud with an initial velocity of 5 km/s across the B field; and a cloud with initial velocity components of 2 km/s both along and across the B field.

Link

Doesn't look like cloud seeding to me.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker

Really? Just how many times are you going to conveniently forget operation LAC? Top secret spraying of chemicals at high altitude, which certainly left uncharacteristic marks in the sky is not the definition of chemtrails all of a sudden?

How do you know it was high altitude? How do you know any trail was visible from the ground?


As your quote says, the barium experiments were carried out in the ionosphere and have nothing to do with cloud seeding.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker

I know and I am not on that bandwagon. Unless someone gets a good sample to prove 100% I'll have to stick with 99% likely a contrail. There are alot of marks in the sky however and there is a chance one could be a actual chemtrail. It can't be dismissed 100% but nor can it be proven 100%.

All it would take is one chemtrail being found. But alas, in 100+ years of aviation, no one has ever found a chemtrail.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
As I have said time and again, the thread was made to prove chemtrails have and did exist 50 years ago so the ability and possibility of chemtrails can't be dismissed today.

By your definition they still exist, crop dusting.

Originally posted by Phage
How do you know it was high altitude? How do you know any trail was visible from the ground?

I speculate based on the US amry being very intelligent and covering all possibilites of bio warfare during they're experimenting and testing on the subject. I also do believe bacillus globigii dispersed at a high altitude would have frozen and left marks.

Originally posted by Phage
As your quote says, the barium experiments were carried out in the ionosphere and have nothing to do with cloud seeding.

Very sorry for incorrectly describing the termanolgy of barium cloud foramtion's delivery system.

A chemical dispersed by a satilite, call the procedure whatever you deem correct then.