Insomnia, and NOTHING works to fix it. I am looking for those who might be able to offer their exp

Let me start by saying I never have, nor do I know anyone who has dealt with Insomnia. Now, that being said, I can guaruntee you that marijuana will put you out, especially if you are not known to partake. If your area has a legal program ask your doctor about it, I believe insomnia can get you your medical license. If not, well sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.

Originally posted by TheArchaeologist
Hello, I am in my mid/late 30's.

4 years ago I had a traumatic even happen to me, and since that time I have had issues with anxiety. I am not a wallflower, I THRIVE on extreme sports, racing, snowboarding climbing, you name it. However this issue involved a child, and affected me in ways I cannot explain.

I'll skip over therapy etc. Yes, I have been.

Here's where I am. I can take 5 lunesta, and literally 10 klonopin, and it does ABSOLUTELY nothing to help me sleep. Please don't explain how dangerous this could/can be. I am well aware. However after living for years not being able to sleep, you become less worried about such things.

I am not ignorant, I am not a drug addict, I am not a drinker, I have a high level job, but lack of sleep or poor sleep for about four years is just too much.

The pharmacist says ambien and lunesta ARE the two most potent out there.....I am half afraid to ask the doctor again because he really is trying.

Anyone else had this problem? Did you find a drug that worked?

Thank you in advance!





Please no PROPOFOL JOKES. This is quite serious. And I would prefer no herbal remedies etc, not that I dont believe in them, but I am well past the strongest stuff out there.

Seroquel.

it might have a different name in Europe?

Non addictive- and helps me sleep. I still only get say 2 hours at a time but interrupted sleep is better than none?

I'm not reading the thread to see if these offerings have been posted yet, but i have two suggestions.

#1 - Binural beats. A company by the name of "Brain Sync" sells a couple of 30 minute tracks that will trick your brain into producing the patterns of falling asleep. I'm naturally nocturnal, but the rest of the business world isn't. I've been prescribed sleeping pills before, and like you -- sometimes these won't even work for me. On nights like that, popping in one of these tracks can do the trick about 80% of the time.

#2 - Neurofeedback. To be blunt, modern day therapy is bull-donkey-doo. Especially when it comes to extreme conditions such as PTSD. While it is an "experimental" therapy there is a lot of research proving that it's better than talk therapy, and drugs, for treating mental disorders. For example, one such study of 13 individuals with Anti-Social Personality disorder (a condition with a traditional treatment rate of 5%), all with histories of failed therapies (talk/drugs) underwent 3 sessions a day, 3 times a week, for 3 months. For a comparison, normal neurofeedback treatments are only 1 a day, 3 days a week. After 3 months, and again at a 2 year follow up, 12 of the individuals had 50% or better improvements in personality scoring. That's pretty substantial results... and since this is a conspiracy website, i think that insurance companies don't pay for it, because it cure's people's mental ailments (as most of the research shows) instead of just covering it up with drugs, or taking years with talk therapy.

If you're curious in Neurofeedback, u2u me and i can get you in touch with an expert in the industry who should be able to recommend someone in your area. It's not cheap at $60 - 120 a session, 3x a week.. but.. 25 sessions cured me of panic attacks a few years ago.

I'm no expert or doctor, but I can offer my experience. I used to have bad anxiety and depression issues, and I didn't sleep either during those days. My mind would race a lot, and just keep me awake. One of the things that helped me, over time, learn to fall asleep again was to put on my ear buds, and listen to relaxed spoken word audio. For me it was Alan Watts and his amazing words, kind and fun heart, and relaxed voice. Soft spoken guided meditations are good for this too. This had the life-changing effect of getting me into Eastern philosophy, and leading me to my Wing Chun Kung Fu practice.

I read an article that said listening to audio like this gives your analytical mind something to focus on so the rest of your brain can start shutting down for sleep. It puts my mind into "listen" mode, rather than chatter mode, in my experience. It took some time, but eventually it worked, and it still works to this day when I am having trouble sleeping.

Don't fight your mind listening to the audio, but you can turn it down low so that it's almost too low to hear. Your brain will still listen to it, and it won't be too loud to keep you awake. I found that music did not help particularly when my mind was racing, because my analytical mind would just ignore it and keep on chattering. It simply became background music to my thoughts.

It's worth a try. Keep in mind that taking all those pills is probably doing more to keep you awake than to make you sleep. You are altering your brain chemistry. I also hope you don't drink caffeine. It has a long half-life in your body (about 5 hours normally), so any amount can stay with you for quite a long time and get in the way of sleep.

As your sleep problem stems from, or so it seems, past events. You may have to deal with those before you can out your mind at ease forever. I suggest meditation or take up a martial art. A change in the room where you sleep and the hours leading up to the time you go to bed, prepare for sleeping, everything from calming down, not eating late, etc., that will put your mind at ease. Also, I believe diet plays a big part in sleep patterns, if having a disturbance cut out the caffeine hours before sleep time, as well as eat foods rich in Melatonin such as; rice, tomatoes, almonds, bananas, radishes,etc. Make sure to cut out the VitC in the process as it interferes with Melatonin.

sorry if this has been mentioned but my mom was suffering from insomnia and all she simply did was have a mango a day. you should try that, no harm done and it tastes great.

Originally posted by TheArchaeologist
Hello, I am in my mid/late 30's.

4 years ago I had a traumatic even happen to me, and since that time I have had issues with anxiety. I am not a wallflower, I THRIVE on extreme sports, racing, snowboarding climbing, you name it. However this issue involved a child, and affected me in ways I cannot explain.

I'll skip over therapy etc. Yes, I have been.

Here's where I am. I can take 5 lunesta, and literally 10 klonopin, and it does ABSOLUTELY nothing to help me sleep. Please don't explain how dangerous this could/can be. I am well aware. However after living for years not being able to sleep, you become less worried about such things.

I am not ignorant, I am not a drug addict, I am not a drinker, I have a high level job, but lack of sleep or poor sleep for about four years is just too much.

The pharmacist says ambien and lunesta ARE the two most potent out there.....I am half afraid to ask the doctor again because he really is trying.

Anyone else had this problem? Did you find a drug that worked?

Thank you in advance!





Please no PROPOFOL JOKES. This is quite serious. And I would prefer no herbal remedies etc, not that I dont believe in them, but I am well past the strongest stuff out there.

OK, most here are going to laugh but the best therapy is: SEX

I'm not kidding, A couple of hours of hardcore, floor-shaking sex will wear out anyone. I suffer from PTSD after being flipped in a jeep and shot at in Kuwait.....watched a buddy die right in front of me and it messed me up for a long time. I used to wake up screaming, in tears, and ready to shove my Glock 23 into my mouth. I took the usual 10mg of Ambien, Melatonin, etc. but the best thing is just nonstop vagi-pounding for hours until you collapse in a pool of sweat. A couple of times a week and you can back off of the drugs.....although your wife may tire of it over time.

There are many homeopathic remedies that can help with insomnia, and unlike pharmaceutical medications, homeopathic remedies are all non-addictive.

ACONITE is one of the top remedies for insomnia, and also one of the top remedies for ailments due to shock and trauma (as well as PTSD), so that might be a good one to read about.

Here is a list of the most common homeopathic remedies for insomnia, but to get a really good remedy that would treat your insomnia plus other stuff (such as trauma) you should go to a certified homeopath to get a really good remedy. In the mean time, you can consult this list, and pick the remedy that describes your insomnia the best. You can buy any of these remedies at a natural health food store in the homeopathic sections:

www.holisticonline.com...

The brand I recommend is Bioron, and they come in little blue plastic tubes. You can buy them at whole foods, Sprouts, etc...

Self-hypnosis also works GREAT for insomnia. You can learn self-hypnosis from any of the multitude of books on self-hypnosis. Also, you can buy self-hypnosis MP3s online for around $12.00 at places like hypnosisdownloads.com. And you can buy self-hypnosis CDs at book stores and new age bookstores.

Homeopathy and hypnosis can also help relieve symptoms from past trauma. I work with a lot of patients with past trauma, and I've helped many of them overcome traumatic episodes with regression hypnosis. I'd recommend consulting a certified hypnotist. For a good recommendation, you can call the National Guild of Hypnotist, or ask your doctor or naturopath for a recommendation. There are many hypnotists (like myself) who are also health professionals, and take doctor referrals. You can also check your local community for a "professional hypnotists association". Many states (like mine) have them....we have doctors, nurses, psychologists, etc.. in our association. These are hypnotists with good training and know what they're doing.

Another thing you can do is call one of the national hypnosis schools or homeopathy schools, and ask for a referral for someone in your area. Be sure to check out the credentials of anyone you go to, to make sure that you get someone who has been properly trained and qualified.

Hope that helps! Good luck. I used to also have terrible insomnia. I used to take ambien for it, but I got tired of being dependent on medications to sleep, and homeopathy and self-hypnosis both helped me immensely.

Best of luck!

Edit to add:

If none of the remedies in that list sound like they fit your symptoms, and if you want a free recommendation for a remedy, you can also go to www.abchomeopathy.com, and click on the "forum".

On the forum, They have professional homeopaths who consult online for free, and I'm sure any of them would be able to help recommend a remedy that would help your insomnia.

Edit to add one more IMPORTANT thing:

When you do find something else that works, be sure to taper down off your Klonopin gradually! Klonopin is in the benzodiazipine class of drugs, and since you are taking such a high dose right now, you'll need to taper down slowly, so as not to go into withdrawal (which happens if you come off benzodiazepines too fast), and so as to not have a seizure (which also happens when coming off benzodiazepines too fast, if you've been taking them for a long time). I'm not trying to scare you, but just be sure to taper down slowly, and gradually once you find something else that works. Do it in conjunction with your doctor's and pharmacist's help. They can tell you how to taper down slowly and safely, once you find something that works.

I don't think you're a drug addict at all...I know how bad insomnia can be...but you just need to come off those medications drugs SLOWLY, because your body develops a tolerance to them.

Originally posted by TheArchaeologist
Thank you for the above comments, the caveat is,

I have tried relaxing baths, soothing candles, I have tried valerian root, melatonin. I have tried relaxing and reading.

I have tried a glass of wine, I have tried a cup of chamomile tea, fact is, I lay around miserable all night. I can be awake for two days sometimes, which is hard when you have a four year old, a job, and a husband. It is, impossible.

Maybe you don't have primary insomnia, you have PTSD which is driving secondary insomnia. There are some serious therapies for that too.

Try to get off the pharmaceuticals. And do lots of pushups and exercise before bed. Even more.

reply to post by TheArchaeologist


i've dealt w/ insomnia since my youth. only recently have i begun to overcome.

if i'm understanding you it was a traumatic event that was the impetus for your insomnia and therapy has not been beneficial. that bothers me greatly as i'm concerned you have not been able to reach deep inside you, come to terms with what occurred, and put yourself back together again. i've been on meds and in therapy 10 years. i've learned 'they' are merely a paid ear and a trained guide. i had to do all the work, there is no quick, there is no easy. i will dwell on this no further.

insomnia (and other disorders) runs rampant on my Mom's side. i 'self-medicated' around 25 yrs, beating hell out of myself with substances & alcohol. if i didn't drink until i passed out i didn't sleep. i got away with it for a long time. this lifestyle combined with too many years in a high-pressure work environment led to a breakdown and hospitalization. which led to ten years of therapies & meds (for a small grocery list of diagnosed ailments).

recently i met a fellow who takes excellent care of himself. we spend time talking. meanwhile, while having my Depakote levels checked for my psychiatrist my general practicioner wrote me a script for my 3rd anti-cholesterol medication. i finally said: enough is enough. i'm not taking yet another med on top of the 7 i take daily.

i'm sleeping every nite now. it is wonderful. at my age, the insomnia was way worse than in my 20's & 30's &...

WHAT LED TO MY ACTUALLY SLEEPING LIKE MOST PEOPLE, EVERY NITE:

1. having someone to talk to that actually listens & converses with me, daily. not a doctor. someone who likes me for me, enjoys my company, and enjoys our conversations.

2. i finally got sick and tired...of being sick and tired. i stopped eating like I'm a 9 yr old that was left home alone for the weekend. i stopped the fast foods/junk cakes/candy bars/white trash diet i've been living on for years. i'm tired of being the size of a farm animal.

my new friend has been teaching me about protein, fat calories, using tiny amounts of butter & mayonnaise instead of whopping amounts like i did all my life (thats the way Mom taught me as a boy). i'm eating really well now and learning more every day.

i've cut down my Coca-Cola intake from 12+ cans/daily to 2 maximum. cut way back on coffee, too. now i drink more water, seltzer is how i get my bubbles, and i drink 2 Whey Protein powder mixed w/ water drinks per day.

3. i'm finally getting off my rather huge arse and doing things again. little at a time. just started talking daily walks days ago. my doctors have been telling me to exercise for years. this Monday, for the first time in my life, i'm going to a gym.

4. i now limit my time on the 'net. it's too easy to piss away 8 - 12 hours at a clip.

5. i now lie in bed even if i think i can't sleep. little TV, close my eyes. it takes a little while but eventually sweet, wonderful sleep comes.

someone to talk to, eating & drinking better, some exercise. i feel better now than i have...since i was a child.

i take a huge amount of psychotropic drugs & sedatives every day. pills to sleep is not the answer (for me). gave me nightmares beyond horror, truly terrible. never again.

i hope you find relief, and i wish you the best. i know your pain. don't give up. don't give in. if what you try does not help, try the next thing. you'll find your Nirvana

close your eyes. keep them closed, don't open them, no matter what you think about, just keep your eyes closed and eventually you will drift off, I used to not sleep for like 3 days and i just tried that and it worked and helped me to recover my sleeping pattern, that was only last summer too.

You should start a fight club. It works in the movies. my other idea is to take antihistamines instead of sleeping pills. They knock me out like a rhino tranquilizer. Im serious. one antihistamine pill and I will be narcoleptic. It's like a struggle to even keep my eyelids open. antihistamines are brutal. my other idea is to practice meditation techniques. I always meditate when I lay down to go to sleep and at some point when I am very calm and thinking about nothing I just drift off to sleep and wake up feeling super refreshed the next day even if I only get 4 hours of sleep. look up qigong meditation or chakra opening meditation. It helps a lot.

I am well aware.

Well then it seems to me that all this lack of sleep has left you comfortable with death as an option. I've had PTSD for years, not the classic "crazy" PTSD, just the standard "I've seen some stuff" PTSD that comes from living in warzones and being in combat for the last 8 years. It took me months if not years to sleep comfortably outside of a deployment zone. I know this is against T&C, but given the seriousness of your situation, Marijuana is a GREAT substitute. If you are in a medicinal marijuana state, it should be REAL easy for you to get some legal pot. Otherwise, do what you have to. Marijuana worked better for me than any combination of pills and therapy. I'm not dependent on it by any means, I am even able to sleep on a regular basis without it. Lovely little plant in my own opinion. Beats overdose and dependence on HARMFUL narcotics such as Lunesta and the likes.

Smoke some green before bed. It will do wonders to help your insomnia!

OP, how fat are you? Seriously.

How tall are you and how much do you weigh?

Firstly, don't eat midnight snacks if you plan on sleeping. Especially protein. Protein works better at keeping you awake than caffeine, it's just that caffeine gives you a "jump".

Secondly, Trying doing something physical in the morning. Push ups, running, whatever fits for you. Doesn't even have to be long. Right after getting out the shower, just do as many push ups as you can. Should take less than 5 minutes, that'd be a good start. Physical activity in the morning works quite well.

Thirdly, I highly recommend marijuana if you are in a medical state, or at least one that has decriminalized it as the final option. Remember to get Indica strains if you do choose this. You don't have to smoke it. In fact, today I learned how to extract the THC and turn the plant into an extract of sorts. You can add this to tea or spray it under your tongue before you go to sleep.

My suggestions:

- Do not drink anything cafinated or anything that picks you up, for any reason
- Go away somewhere nice and quiet - see if it helps. Or try putting some nature sounds on - some background noise helps some people.
- Try sleeping in a warmer/cooler environment (I find tempreture effects me greatly)
- consume/vaporise (or smoke but beware of health effects) some form of THC, I dont know if this is illegal where you are or not, but I can tell you that a couple of hits will make you tired - initially it may be too strong so ease in to it.
- I dont recommend this as it likely kills brain cells but I used to hyperventilate myself on purpose until I passed out when I had insomnia. Not recommended as I hear it is very dangerous - but you sound like you are that desperate. Breath in and out as fast as you can for 2 mins, then hug yourself as hard as you can until everything goes fuzzy
- have a nightcap
- change your lifestyle, try removing anything stressful or leaving you anxious.
- Talk to a doctor in more than 1 field - you may have a different underlying phscological or physiological issue.


Edit to add: I see you have said you do not have any desire to try cannabis as a medication -There are ways that it can be used where it is safer than just about every other alternative including perscribed medication, it is natural and can be used in many ways - I would suggest a tea if you ever were going to try it, I am sure a quiet word with your doctor would also have him agreeing this is probably the safest and most natural medications for sleeping disorders. However, I respect your decision to not partake - but really recommend brushing aside any preconceptions or negative one off past experiences and taking this route over taking big pharmas concoctions which can have devastating long term effects.

reply to post by TheArchaeologist


I know how it can be to have sleep issues...Honestly I have just about every sleep issue you can get, I've got Narcolepsy (which caused me to suffer a broken leg about 5 years ago, that required a rod to be put on my shin bone) I've got insomnia...Ive got Sleep Apnea.....and to top all of that off I'm an occasional sleep walker (I'm the type that will actually have full conversations with people, and do other complex actions). My problem though is mostly staying awake. I've been given Provigil, Nuvigil, Aderol....you name it....most of them actually hit me the exact opposite!.....They will actually knock me out! I've had similar problems with sleeping pills too...they often do nothing.I've tried Ambien and Lunesta.....They really did nothing. One thing that always worked for me, though is Soma. It's not necessarily a sleeping pill....it's a muscle relaxer I think....but a couple of them would always do the trick for me in the past. Hope that helps!

I too went through a traumatic event; perhaps not as serious as yours but serious nonetheless. I've had sleep issues in the past as well as major anxiety and panic attacks, depersonalization and disassociation issues. I literally thought I was a ghost walking around in a physical world...nothing seemed real. My life seemed like a nightmare and was all an illusion. I was afraid to look in the mirror. I ended up in the ER due to a severe panic attack. That is the Cliffs Notes version of what I've been through. I've experienced every panic and anxiety symptom there is. In short, your nervous system is super-sensitized.

I'll take my best guess at this. First of all, it won't be a quick process. It could take a couple months to even notice a difference.

Start with limiting your intake of "Doom and Gloom"! I'm dead serious. All this crap just adds to your information overload and exacerbates the problem. I flat out stopped following the news when this crap started. I didn't watch it on TV and seldom read it on the internet. I listened to calming music at night before bed instead of getting my subconscious all worked up with Armageddon. And I don't want to get called out on this but for me, a huge part of it was turning to the Bible and going to church. If anybody disagrees with that, keep it to yourself. I'm telling him what MY experience was.

As far as sleep goes, I still have issues but it's just my nature. I sleep better than I did but I had to address my waking hour issues before I addressed the sleep issue. Getting the panic and anxiety under control was the first step. There were some nights where I was just terrified all night, didn't sleep well and would wake up, if you want to call it that, with my whole body vibrating like every friggin' nerve was ready to give out. In those cases the only thing that would let my mind rest was Xanax. Usually .5 mg but sometimes I would take 1 mg. I know that isn't a long term fix because doctors don't like handing out "benzo's", but it makes an excellent security blanket or "panic button" if you will.

If you continue to take in stressful information, like that found on this and other websites, you're not going to have as much success, if any. I don't know if you work, but take an evening after work, and keep it quiet in the house, if possible. If you have kids, give them benadryl and put them to bed. JK. But, keep the TV off, grab a relaxing book, maybe a catalog of stuff from your favorite hobby. Put on some head phones and listen to some relaxation MP3's. Google em; they're all over the net. About an hour before you would normally go to bed, take .5 mg of Xanax and 50-60 mg of Benadryl. Honestly, when I went in for my sleep study, they gave me that Rx sleep aid and it didn't even phase me. I can't remember what kind it was but it didn't work at all. If you're a really tough case, take 1mg of Xanax. I'm assuming you are familiar with Xanax and given your condition you should be able to get at least one Rx for them. Some doctors are liberal with them and with some you have to hold a gun to their head before they'll give them to you, but get hurt and they'll give you Oxy all day long. Go figure.

Also, don't let the stress of having to "go to bed" freak you out. Wherever you decide to chill and relax, just sleep there. No need to get up and go to bed. Just sleep wherever you are. I was so bad that I would take a Xanax in the morning, then listen to one of my subliminal music CD's on the way to work and the whole time I was terrified that I would have another epic panic attack.

This routine, for me, took a couple months of following before I finally started to improve. I would get up early and hit the relaxation audio stuff through headphones for about 30 minutes every morning and read my bible. Eventually, I got off the Xanax and now I just keep a few around as a security blanket. I take 3mg of Melatonin every night and that gets it done for me. My sleep isn't the quality sleep I'd like but that's just because I have a busy mind, always have.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to PM me. Best wishes.

I'm going to be honest, none of the herbal or homeopathic crap is going to help you. That stuff is like a placebo effect. If you're taking that much Ambien and Klonopin, well, marijuana may calm your nerves a bit, but probably will not make you sleep. If you're taking the Klonopin regularly, I'd try to cut down slowly and stop. Benzo's can have really bad long term effects, and cause pretty bad withdrawal. Also, Ambien is for short term insomnia, so that's probably not a good idea either.

Now, I would never condone doing anything illegal, but you're best bet is to ingest marijuana in whatever form you can during the day to keep calm, and use gamma hydroxybutyrate at night. There's no way that you will not be able to sleep after it. It is the only "drug" that does not leave a single toxin in your body, and actually help's produce human growth hormone. Those are the only healthy alternatives that will actually work.

Good luck.