Canadian group organizes flotilla to Gaza.

reply to post by backinblack

That is true. Let me think for a moment, Hamas comes to mind. And who is in charge of Palenstine? Oh that is right, it is Hamas, a terrorist organization, that works with other terrorist organizations that deliberately attack and kill unarmed people, women and children all to get their point across. Well I guess that solves that issue, now if they would just stop accepting military hardware and start looking to give up a few things in exchange for a few concessions, there would be peace.

reply to post by sdcigarpig

that deliberately attack and kill unarmed people, women and children all to get their point across.

Though I guess you can show me who have killed the most "unarmed people, women and children" out of Hamas and Israel ??
Does that define terrorist for you??

This made me laugh!!

The Canadian group purchased a ship - are they sure its not a raft made of turnips?

Anything for some attention.

They deserve whatever they get doing such a dumb thing.

IF this starts an international incident watch the Canadians beg for American forces help.

reply to post by backinblack

Well according to the pictures that came out of the last flotilla, that should be proof enough. After all they were peaceful, and gee, they through the first punch towards the Israelie military. I guess dropping someone down to hit their head to put them in the hospitital that is a peaceful demonstration? Having weapons and using weapons on a ships that are trying to peacefully break a blockade, that is a point of peace? No it is neither, so therefore this is not for peace, but to provoke and escalate violence. And isn't it real funny how Hamas is supplied weapons through Iran, a country that has stated it wants to wipe Israel off of the earth and states such on a regular basis, I would say that would give weight to Israel.

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
[i has stated it wants to wipe Israel off of the earth and states such on a regular basis,

Never happened, please stop perpetuating this lie, it's against the T&Cs and can result in a ban, what was called for was a political dissolution of the political entity Israel, just as happened in the case of the USSR, in fact the dissolution of the USSR was used in that speech as comparison to what was being called for.

As is obvious this will never happen unless the vast majority of Israeli citz vote for it or terrible economic or climatological disaster strikes as was the case with the dissolution of the USSR.

As nuclear state with a large very well armed defence force Israel is safe as I can't imagine Israels economy will be allowed to fail and it looks like we're entering a mini ice age their climate should improve so no likely dissolution from those causes again Israel is safe.

reply to post by Thepreye

Yes it does, and it is not a lie that the president of Iran, has often stated that it is the intention of Iran to wipe Isreal off of the face of the earth, he does it on a regular basis, no matter what the venue is. President Amadimijad says the party line on a regular basis, and they supply Hamas with military hardware, via Syria. So it stands to reason, that if military hardware can get into Gaza from different sources, such as Iran and Syria, then so too can other forms of aid. But what if the military aid stops flowing? Would that not make a difference, no guns, no bullets, no military aid flowing in, only food and other things, that would help the population, that would ultimately play out in the favor of the Palenstinians in the long run.

reply to post by sdcigarpig


You're wrong do some of your own research instead of relying on word of mouth or prevailing wisdom, you are an embarrassment to straight talking friends of Israel, which needs no lies to defend its properly recognised UN member status as a nation.

This kind of talk and lying propaganda plays into the hands of the enemies, only truth can prevail.

reply to post by Thepreye

You are right and if the President of Iran, along with Syria had their way they would launch an all out attack against Isreal. Not surprising, can't blame them for continuing on the ideology of the NAZI's after all. Really kind of a shame. After all when you have a theorcracy that dictates to its people what they can and can not say, do and act, it is no wonder that Iran, Syria, and Palestine are filled with fanatics trying to attack and goad Isreal into attacking. After all Isreal did managed to defeat its neighbors in a 7 day war, taking on both Syria and Egypt, and managed to take territory away from them, and seems like only Egypt realized the futility of having a constant state of conflict with your neighbors. One must wonder, why then is Iran trying to sabre rattle and cause problems in the area, by having its puppets do its dirty work. Oh it is no secret that Iran, pulls the strings and Syria and Palenstine jump at every chance to make good with Iran. And to think that group several years ago in Isreal who wanted real peace between Isreal and Palestine, worked very hard to gather their numbers up, well one small attack by Hamas, pretty muck killed that idea. Maybe in a generation or 2 there can be peace, between both countries, along with a new government in Iran and Syria that will no longer be puppets or allow for fanatics to dictatate policy.

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
One must wonder, why then is Iran trying to sabre rattle and cause problems in the area

Indeed one must and having done so a few possibilities make sense perhaps they already have nuke weapons and feel confident that they can survive what they assume will be a limited first strike then be able to take tiny Israel out of the game permanently with some adapted zbv1 through 4 artillery warheads placed in missiles. Thus being able to claim self defence against a nuclear attack.

Or may be they think China can't afford to let the US have even more control of world oil supplies and a client state so close to Xi Zang, Tibet, so the sabres can only be rattled never used.

Who knows what their thinking is, we do know it's done by people who presumably actually believe in an interventionist god so it could be totally wacky.

Anyway back to the main point, as the blockade of Gaza is illegal it would make sense for Israel to abandon the policy and definitely not launch another attack on good folk trying to help innocent people in need.

reply to post by Thepreye

It is only illegale in the third person. Their blockade. It is never illegale in the first person, our blockade.
But after a bit of research, the reality is that it is not illegal, and supported by international law. So the point of legality has been already settled by international law, in the UN charter, Article 51. So Israel is perfectly justified under those guidelines to put a blockade up around Palestine and to insist that any and all aid going into Gaza be inspected and all military hardware be stopped.
And if Hamas and the government of Palenstine was that concerned for its citizens, it would persue for aid that would go directly to the people. But as it stands, Hamas tends to take as much as it can, leaving the people to scramble over what is left. That is neither responsible or fair, and ultimately, the only way that there will be peace is both sides need to step back and be isolated.

reply to post by sdcigarpig

But after a bit of research, the reality is that it is not illegal, and supported by international law. So the point of legality has been already settled by international law, in the UN charter, Article 51.

BS, it is impossible to call it legal or not until Israel states it's stance on Gaza, which Israel REFUSES to do..
Please show me how you think it's been deemed legal..

reply to post by sdcigarpig

Well according to the pictures that came out of the last flotilla, that should be proof enough. After all they were peaceful, and gee, they through the first punch towards the Israelie military. I guess dropping someone down to hit their head to put them in the hospitital that is a peaceful demonstration? Having weapons and using weapons on a ships that are trying to peacefully break a blockade, that is a point of peace? No it is neither, so therefore this is not for peace, but to provoke and escalate violence.

Please detail these so called weapons that the activists had..

And how can you call the IDF anything but the aggressors when they CHOSE to attack in darkness..
Surely a PEACEFUL military would have waited for first light when everyone can see whats going on and not panic about choppers hovering and soldiers repelling onto the deck..
It was deliberately aggressive because they WANTED trouble..

reply to post by backinblack


The Ship doesnt just sit out at sea until morning. They were headed straight for the Gaza strip. They would enter those waters well before the morning came. It is thus complete lunacy to "wait till the morning" so we dont frighten these criminals intent on sending "toys" which are so sorely lacking (as if they couldnt be bought in Gaza proper) apparently; and the main reason for the emotional outrage....

Its complete hogwash. Israel has security interests and the blockade is unfortunately necessary. Not because Israel is some sick twisted sadistic arab hating cabal (which is what you seem to think) but because the Arabs hate Jews. They have stuck millions of Arabs in the Gaza strip, raised them on a diet of daily Jew hatred...and now many years later, the general attitude of Gazans towards Jews is malevolent. Because of this ridiculous quandary Israel now finds themselves in (and instead of you thinking sensible, like "why would Israel - the only non muslim country in the smack middle of the Arab and Muslim world - want to instigate with Arabs or Muslims? Its the exact opposite. If youre interested in self preservation,you wont act suicidally) they have a major balancing act to do. They have to protect their own citizens, and they have to propitiate the international community. The more the international community inveighs against Israel, the more Israel is basically being told "consider the lives of palestinians as more important then the lives of Jews" - because a non blockade would cause that. Its bad enough that 10,000 Missiles have been shot into Israel in the last few months. Fortunately, not many have been killed. But what about that recent rocket attack? And worst of all, look at Palestinian textbooks. Just type it ino google and see how flagrant what they teach their children about Jews is. Its crazy that this isnt looked at for what it is. Naziesque propaganda. The Palestinians are merely being used as guinea pigs to provoke Israel into doing something quetionable. And in the end of the day, breaking Israel down, diplomatically, through stages.

reply to post by dontreally


What a load of rubbish..
The ship was NOT going to be in Gaza waters until after sunlight even if it kept moving, which it didn't..
Tell the truth for once mate..
The IDF attacked at night for maximum effect..

And your usual "All Jews hate Arabs" crap..
There are many jews living peacefully in Arab countries..
Probably truer to say "All Israelis hate Arabs" IMO

reply to post by backinblack

Anything that cause harm to another living person, in the way of a fist, a bat, a crow bar, a brick, a stone, is considered to be a weapon under any sense of the word. The people on those flotillas, were not there for peaceful means, if they were, then they would have sat down and no lifted on hand when the Israelie navy approached, through non violent tactics. They did not, they were preparing for violence even before the first person set foot on their ship and then proceeded to initiate the violence. In short, the so called peaceful activist threw the first punch and then cried foul when they got slapped hard.
The blockade is legal, under international laws, as long as, the Palenstines and in specific Hamas continues to bring in military weapons. The moment they stop, the moment they stop all hostilities on their part, then and only then would such an action be illegale under international law.

reply to post by backinblack


Youre like anti-truth. Everything that is wrong, if anycares to find a wrong opinion. Just read your posts.

There are Jews living "peacefully" in Muslim lands? Please read a book for once in your life. You might actually learn something.

There are pretty much no Jews left in the middle east aside from a very small 5,000 person community in morocco - down from some 300,000 50 years ago and an even smaller community of 500 or so people in Yemen.

Why did they all leave? well, given they didnt leave till after the formation of the state of Israel; it wasnt zionism. They left because the abuse became too great to handle. They were forced out; and when they left, they took nothing that was theirs. The splendidly just Arab governments wouldnt dream in a million years of compensating their dhimmis or "Yahud Kalabs" for property they left in an an Arab/Muslim state. In their minds; they should consider themsleves thankful that theyre even being allowed to leave. Look up operation magic carpet for instance. The sadistic yemenite government wouldnt let the jews of yemen - who have been there even longer then Islam has existed - to leave, thus Israel had to hash up some massive evacuation mission to take all those who wanted out.

Look at Iraq in the 1960s and 70s with its public hangings of Jews - sometimes very wealthy and prominent Jews

800,000 Jews left the middle east to seek haven in Israel; their sole state, while others went to France and America. This btw is what refugees do. They find a new place to live, and go on with their lives.

The only community youre trying to point out is the one in Iran. What you DONT know, obviously in your profound and glaring ignorance, is that about half of those Jews have been there since the Judean exile 2600 years ago; WAY WAY before the time of Islam. Some 1000 years before it infact. Read the book of Esther for information on it. So, such Jews who stay in Iran have a profound pride in maintaining that ancient community, even though the state of Israel has been reestablished and they would be much wiser to leave Iran and move there. The other half of Iranian Jews are from Iraq; when in the 60s and 70s when abuse - both financial and physical - became too bad to tolerate, many Iraqi Jews snuck into Iran.

The Iran they were sneaking into wasnt the post 1979 Islamic republic but that of the Shah. An officially secular state where Jews lived with greater security and ease then they do now. Although since the revolution, attacks on Jews have been rare, that sentiment does not exist today. Some of the worse and most virulent anti-semites are persians. I would know, because my sister is best friends with a Persian girl whos boyfriend, and his group of friends - all persians - hate without a shred of sensibility, Israel, Zionists and Jews in general.

You have to be a complete idiot to think it is safe for Jews to stay in Iran. If war ever breaks out; those Jews will experience what the Jews of Morocco, Egypt, Libya, Iraq etc experienced after the 1948 war. This is typically how muslim react. (and in fact, this is how human beings react. After WWII Czechoslovakia and Poland ousted some 11 million - yes, quite an enormous number - ethnic Germans. Compare this event to the 700,000 Palestinians the Arabs told to leave Israel before they attacked Israel. )

reply to post by sdcigarpig


Which probably wont happen.

Hamas is the proverbial 'bad cop' of palestinian diplomacy. While Fatah plays the 'good cops'. Both intend on destroying Israel. The latter is more political about it. The former forces Israel to do such unpopular things like establishing a blockade on an areas where Palestinian Arabs shouldnt even be living.

In my mind this is a clear tactic of the PA. Two parties. one bad, one good, both forcing you into accepting their terms which are: no Jewish state and get out of Dar Al Islam. Neither group acknowledges the right to a Jewish state. Even when you say "Jew" they mock it.. "Is there a christian state, a shiite state?"... Right. Jews are one of those unique categories in which theyre both a people - a race - and a religion. To say they arent a people though i a double standard. If arabs are people; and if even berbs and copts and kurds are being forced to arabize themselves, and we in the west still refer to these people in the generic as 'arabs' then Jews without a doubt deserve the same treatment.

reply to post by dontreally


You forgot to mention the 25,000-30,000 Jews living in Iran under the protection of a fatwa. Of course you aren't to concerned with facts. After I read your statement saying that their are only around 5,000 Jews living in Arab states- predominantly Morrocco- I stopped as I can see you are going to keep repeating the lie untill people believe it. Rather ironic isn't it?

“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it” - Adolf Hitler

EDIT: I just read the rest of your statement regarding Persians. It's funny because I know many myself and am yet to meet one which is anti-Semetic even though they openly discuss politics, specifically Islamic-Israeli relations. No doubt their are bigots but to say this is the majority view is biased and false. If I were to say most Jews hate Muslims you would call me a liar, but when you say most Persians hate Jews you expect us to believe it as if it factual?

Just like their is Jewish bigots who hate Muslims and Arabs there are also Persian/Arab/Muslim bigots who hate Jews. The statement that this is the status quo thinking in either community however is a falsehood.

reply to post by macman


my rank and first name I will not share nor would ask another soldier to do so.
Mc Gregor, 2nd Battalion, 4th Infantry Brigade, 4th Infantry Division, Fort Carson thats about all you need to know