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We can all have a better education, so why don't we?

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posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 02:46 AM
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Is there ANY way that we can share more with members or are we sharing all we can? One member makes a point and perhaps another member provides a counter point which makes the former null.

Does anyone else see the problem in this scenario? Most do not go into greater detail as to why a point is now null or the opposite. Usually it's one simple piece of knowledge that nullifies what another thought they knew.

I'm not saying that this is on any particular member but what I MUST say is that if no subject is constantly built upon then ideas that anything that may be of solid principle due to multiple information sources could actually quite easily fall apart. Why? Because many do not remember in detail the simple aspects that lead up to more complex knowledge and ideas.

I've always thought that mathematics was always flawed because as one topic is introduced another is left behind. In a society that is close to perfect one would expect that all topics be involved and grow as new topics and said topics become more complex and informative. Does anyone see what I'm trying to get at? Just because something is considered elementary does not mean that it should not be included later on. I understand that LAWS may be including but examples are just as important.

If we cannot teach and build upon (simultaneous) multiple topics then everything will literally fall into individual categories even though (I would hope) that a specific topic would be built upon through examples and constant use of what has already been learned and then incorporated.

From my experiences this is not always the case. I envy anyone who could do this without any help and constantly build upon what they learn without forgetting examples past learned. This most definitely does not describe me as I tend to forget aspects that were taught in the past.

I always wished this was the case since I was in HS. Everything ties into everything right? While certain aspects can be taught in parts most of what we learn can be taught altogether in order to archive a much greater understanding of encompassing concepts in regards to science and whatever else one may be studying.

It truly bothers' me that this is not happening as it would have helped me retain past courses and meld them into everything upwards in relation to education and knowledge. I know I've forgotten things I was taught.

If one wanted to truly improve the educational system one would never leave behind topics along with their examples that fit within more advanced topics. It's all a web and nothing should ever be left behind just to advance into something more complex just to leave the former and all we learned of the former behind.

If one wishes to have the best education possible then one must use ALL of what they've learned! Although some may not have a problem with this I can guarantee that there are many who easily forget.

We can most all have an understanding of complex laws but that means not forgetting the simple laws that may be forgotten! Time affects us and our memory!

Peace & respect,

-AS-

PS:When I brought this up with local teachers they most all agreed but of course they had their agenda which they had to follow.

WE can have a better educational system!


edit on 11-6-2011 by AeonStorm because: added + sp




posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 03:08 AM
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Yes..it seems counterproductive to learning at times..the way information ends up being a debate..but that is where learning comes from to a degree as well.

My best advice is to read ,and search for information on the topics you are interested in from all over the net....despite what naysayers say about the validity of where it may be sourced from.

.Don't believe everything, but you can always store it in the library of your brain,for future reference,and comparison to other stuff you read.

I've been here just a lil over a month,and most of the good info I got,was by digging through old threads. Most of the recent threads,are on news bits, psychology related topics, or religion based topics...though they can have some insightful ,and very interesting posts at times.

All sorts of knowledge is good , and information that leads to real knowledge is highly valued. Even information that isn't so highly valued,is a commodity.

Think of the money spent on this earth, in trying to attain knowledge.



edit on 11-6-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 03:14 AM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


Thanks for your response Gabby2011, but I'm talking more about the educational system and how it can be improved if laws and examples were compounded. Especially if scientific and mathematical laws and examples were compounded. However this can most certainly be said about ATS.

Sorry If I was misleading as I meant to present this thread as a generalization about education as a whole.

Peace,

-As-
edit on 11-6-2011 by AeonStorm because: sp + corrected



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 03:29 AM
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Originally posted by AeonStorm
reply to post by gabby2011
 


Thanks for your response Gabby2011, but I'm talking more about the educational system and how it can be improved if laws and examples were compounded. Especially scientific and mathematical laws and examples were compounded.

Did I miss something? Sorry I a misguided you at the begging but I was using that as an example.

Peace,

-As-
edit on 11-6-2011 by AeonStorm because: sp



sorry..lol..You're saying the education system would be improved..if they broadened their visions of certain scientific and mathematical laws and examples.? (not sure how compounded fits into that)

Isn't that what the students and scientists who originally expanded them did..sort of on their own personal studies,as well as with colleagues?

Your Op is confusing to me now..sort of like double speak..lol...care to elaborate once again?

There is only so much knowledge the knowledgeable are willing to part with for the price of tuition...and only so much time in which to cover it in...as far as school goes. Real learning comes from your own pursuit,and ideas of what you are presented with.

Maybe you could try and explain one more time..a little more in lay mans terms..exactly the point you were trying to get across...I would appreciate it..so at least my response could make half a***ed sense.


But then again my brain might be too tired to make half a***d sense out of much right now.

Sorry if I didn't understand.
edit on 11-6-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 03:52 AM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


lol ... Sure... with a new paradigm perhaps MORE people can expand their knowledge if that knowledge was compounded instead of separated into muilti-topics that can be easily be forgotten without being constantly reminded of said examples and laws of previously taught topics.

This would most likely apply to to any science but could in practice apply to any subject.

What I was talking about was at the HS level which in my country (Canada) is paid for by the good ol' taxpayers. But if this was done (change in education such that everything is compounded) then there would be no reason as to why post secondary could not conform and expand on any subject that has been expanded and compounded on.

This can all be done from first within government (preschool up to HS) and later in the private sector such as collage or above.


Sorry for the double speak friend... I hope this clarifies things? All I'm trying to basically say is that if what you learn from the time you enter school is compounded not just with learned Laws but also with examples that many would be able to grasp much more complicated ideas and if every question asked would require ALL laws and examples learned to be implemented then one could answer all questions due to being subjected to the afore mentioned laws and examples that go back to the beginning of ones schooling.

Hope that helps ... I know sometimes that I can speak in terms only I can understand and I'm glad you asked for clarification
... If I'm still not clear please let me know and if you do understand please let me know your thought on this subject.

Peace

-AS-[
edit on 11-6-2011 by AeonStorm because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 03:55 AM
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Are we talking about this as "individuals" or are we talking about having a better education system? As far as individuals go, how about if we do this. Instead of trying to teach young "minds" how to feel good about themselves, how about we teach them just what it means to have a mind in the first place and how to train said mind to think with a little common sense? I went to a Catholic school for the first eight years of my life and aside from the religious aspect of attending a Catholic school, scince that was my "denomination" at the time, the Sisters that were our teachers when instructing in the usual subjects, Math, English, History, Science, Social Studies, French Language, Art, Music etc. were VERY effective and knowledgeable teachers who engaged and challenged the students to use they're intellect as it was meant to be used, and event back in the 60's when I was going through grade school they often compared the workings of the human brain to computers as they existed back then. The Sisters also maintained a very high degree of discipline in class, not allowing for distractions from the lesson plan. Students who decided to be distruptive were removed from the class immediatley. I know, I had a lot of "immediatleys" during my time with the Sisters. I do think that if folks want to become involved with teaching, the education system we provide for young minds would be far better served if teachers were more like guild than the current unionized mess that we have now. If we as a society truly believe that education is "everything", the maybe the way we build our teachers is in itself flawed, because if education is supposed to be the whole ball game, then we would have to ensure those that we alow to teach treat it as the higher calling that it really is and maybe give the actual teachers a little better social status by ensuring that they have a decent wage, and give them other incentives like breaks on taxes and mortgages and stuff like that. But if we're gonna turn people use on what is virtually the blank slates that young minds are, we had better be sure those folks know what they are doing, and monitor them to make sure they are keeping up with the task they've been entrusted to. I have to say that when I left the Catholic scholl and entered the "public" education system, it was a shock to the system. Public school was like going to a day care center, mostly, and it took me long time to adjust to slack pace of education at the public level.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 03:57 AM
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reply to post by AeonStorm
 


Hey As, Good topic,
I share your frustration, when I look back on my own education it was pathetic. Here in england we have private and state schools, I was in a state school and i honestly learned nothing. my friends who were in private schools had an entirely different experience. The word university was never mentioned to me, yet to the private school kids it was a foregone conclusion that uni was their natural next step.
Its all well in good having big ideas (like i do) about optimum educational systems, but unfortunatley the system
we currently have is heavily weighted in two different ideals. one is to produce managers the other to produce workers. the plan is to institutionalise both parties to carry out the bidding of the powers that be.
All kids could be nurtured to become masters in any given field of course they could and that would be wonderful,
but unfortunatley mate that would make us far to free and aware of our day to day plight, they would NEVER let it happen....

cool thread
all the best
Elvis. thankyouverymuch.


edit on 11-6-2011 by Elvis Hendrix because: misspelled nurtured



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 04:05 AM
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reply to post by AeonStorm
 



Ok..I think I get a clearer picture of what you're saying. Basically you would learn so much more if they taught about how the sum of all these little parts worked together as the whole concept. Maybe I didn't paraphrase that correctly , but I think I paraphrased it to my understanding of what you were saying...lol

All I can say to you..is ....I don't know why not? I could take some guesses at it..but that would be speculation.

I could tell you instead , is that you could be one of the first teachers down the road, who tries to implement this type of teaching in the public system , and I'd give you kudos for that.

edit on 11-6-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 04:09 AM
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First of all they should get rid of the ridiculous, much of the stuff they teach here in primary and secondary is just plain wrong when you get to the tertiary level, then you have to learn everything again, And relearning is one of the hardest things to do.

Along with that they need to get rid of non relevant stuff, it should still be available in school if one wants to self educate themselves, but not actively taught unless one takes a specific class or something. Example there is no purpose in learning the history of computers in "Computer Programming 101", which is what they teach here, for the whole semester.

And as you say it should be all be compounded on each other, another problem is cramming non essential stuff.
Why cram the dozens of equations for physics, tons of constants, laws, for chemistry the periodic table, and similar laws and stuff. As long as the "effects" are understood, it should be fine to just look them up in a book or something. That just wastes the time, which we have little of.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 04:14 AM
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reply to post by CosmosKid
 


ComosKid,

So from what I got from your post is that during you time at catholic school you learned more and when you entered public school that it was basically a cakewalk due to what you were taught as you were more disciplined and illuminated?

Sorry if I'm wrong but that is what I understand from your post. forgive me if I'm wrong! ..... Um did you read my posts? I basically say that if children compound there knowledge instead of breaking it all up into separate topics then each individual would have a greater understanding of life in general.

Respect,

-AS-

ETA: What did you learn most from your experiences?



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 04:20 AM
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reply to post by kaleshchand
 


It's most definitely good to know where your particular area of study started from! As long as you can gain information from that!.

I most definitely agree with what you say as technology is making HUGE strides ... I guess that the one thing I was blessed with is that I took Electronics Engineering which must inevitably look backwards in order to understand the logic that is now applied to the very complex circuits one may find currently!

However ... machine code and assembly are most definitely not something easily understood!

It's all about 1's and 0's and turning that into something comprehensible and then to something that has rules and laws which can do simplistic tasks and further on...complex tasks. Registrars and OP's in microelectronics etc.

Resister, diodes, capacitors, BJT's op-amps, filters, IC's, ADC to DAC (most of this is 1st year electronics engineering!)... I have a feeling that the ideals of such materials could have come before post secondary but this is disappearing! In high school they would rather teach about quirks and quarks to teen and physics that lead me into the area of electronic engineering! What sense does that make?? Do teens really need to learn about quirks and quarks and not simple physics that lead me into engineering!?

One thing that I do not agree with is that something as simple as resistors and simple CCTs are being replaced by quirks and quarks! ... WTF is up with that! Things are not hard enough??? and this is at HS level!

Peace

-AS-
edit on 11-6-2011 by AeonStorm because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 04:44 AM
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Originally posted by kaleshchand
First of all they should get rid of the ridiculous, much of the stuff they teach here in primary and secondary is just plain wrong when you get to the tertiary level, then you have to learn everything again, And relearning is one of the hardest things to do.

Along with that they need to get rid of non relevant stuff, it should still be available in school if one wants to self educate themselves, but not actively taught unless one takes a specific class or something. Example there is no purpose in learning the history of computers in "Computer Programming 101", which is what they teach here, for the whole semester.

And as you say it should be all be compounded on each other, another problem is cramming non essential stuff.
Why cram the dozens of equations for physics, tons of constants, laws, for chemistry the periodic table, and similar laws and stuff. As long as the "effects" are understood, it should be fine to just look them up in a book or something. That just wastes the time, which we have little of.


I took that same course as was embarrassed. I passed with over a 90% ... It was obviously meant for people who has no idea of computers, how they worked, how they actually FUNCTION....and yes...those who did not know how to use a mouse
. UM Why the F*** was I in that class??
edit on 11-6-2011 by AeonStorm because: as



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 04:59 AM
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reply to post by AeonStorm
 


Well. what I was getting at is that when your being "educated" by people who treat the fact that they are educators as a "higher" calling than treating it as a "job", you tend to get a better result because as a whole, these individuals get better results per student and work more co-hesively as a team. You are yourself held to a higher standard by the teachers and because the teachers are highly-dedicated and self-motivated, they get results. What my poimt about the difference I percieved when starting to attend public school is not that it was so much of a cake walk, but the difference between individual teachers approach to educating the students varied greatly, and in some cases as almost non-existent. As far as "breaking" things up into sepereate subjects, I see no reason not to since they are in fact "seperate" subjects! I really didn't need my teachers to help me understand how "life experiences" came into the picture because I had freinds and parents to take care of that. I am thankful that what I was asked to do at school dealt more with "learning" than "feeling" because if it had to deal with "life experiences" that would have been awful damn boring! I had a great time in Catholic school, and a great time in public school, but as far as "educators" go, the public ones couldn't hold a candle to the ones I had in Catholic school. That would I guess be the sum of what I'd "experienced" when going to school. We can call have a better education, but a lot of that has to do with the individual. As the father of three children who all went through public school education at home and abroad, I have to say I KNOW we need to do far better at providing better educators, and that's a shame because bad teachers, like bad politcians just keep recycling through the "system". We need to do more to ensuring the people at running the class rooms are compitent and qualified to do so, that would make a huge difference, but that's never going to happen in the public school system. Ever.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 05:10 AM
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reply to post by CosmosKid
 


Okay.. So what you are saying is that it has to do with the quality of teacher correct? I guess my question is why can't we have an optimum course for most students. Is it because of the teachers knowledge or the individual students knowledge and want? Or does it have to do with bureaucracy?

-AS-
edit on 11-6-2011 by AeonStorm because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 05:27 AM
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sorry guys gotta go to bed .... I appreciate everyone's addition to this thread. I hope that this is not the end of this thread though as this has been something that I've been concerned about since I was young.

All-in-All we must think about the children, what they are being taught, and how much relevance this knowledge being thought has in the real world.

Good night ATS.
edit on 11-6-2011 by AeonStorm because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 05:37 AM
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The big problem in modern education... at least here in NC.. is end of grade testing or EOGs.

The only goal is to pass the EOG tests every year. This determines teachers tenure, funding, districting, penalties or commendations to classes and schools, etc. It is the motivator for all that happens.

As a result, memorization is the key... we are forgetting about how to learn, rationalize, and think critically. While in college, one of my astute professors informed us that the point of highter education is not to get a better job, but to learn how to learn.... He was absolutely right.

It is that ability to learn that so many today lack. In dealing with the public on a daily basis, I find people that pull up in a minivan and have bought a 10x10x6 foot dog kennel...but didn't think about how they will get it inside and home. Or want a belt for a lawn mower..but have no idea what they have been cutting the grass with for the last 3 years..even a name. Many are intelligent but mentally lazy...some iggnorant in the good sense...some are just stupid... after which I have to go to the break room, sit, and calm down at just how stupid some people are... "they are the reason God made dinosaurs"...historically inaccurate but the point I hope is obvious.

Back to your point on retaining and building upon information we are introduced to...

The human mind at this point simply can't retain everything. It can have a good working knowledge of many topics, but eventually we each have to specialize in a few interests or else we would stay frutrated and ineffective most of the time. Trust me, I am 48 and help manage a farm supply store...even now I have over 500,000 items inside and many functions and roles I have to play everyday. The few I do on a sporadic basis I forget the particulars of and have to refresh when I do have to perform them...my mind can't retain all of the intricate details.

Anyway...just some thoughts and a good thread.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 05:44 AM
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reply to post by AeonStorm
 


Yes. We have to have better quality teachers, and more of them. I think we already have an "optimum" curriclum that we can focus on, but the absolute basics, reading, writing, math, language should be stressed and mastered before anything else. As in all things with human beings we're all different, and we all learn at different speeds, but on the whole, we all learn pretty consistently. As far a administration being an issue, when has it not?!



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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Yep, its up to the learn to keep up with the information he or she has recived.



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