Catchy title, huh??

Anyway I've come to a number of reasonable conclusions (I think), and strangely enough, I have the internet to thank for it.

Nearly every site (95% or thereabouts) that accuses Masons of satan-worship, NWO, eating small children, practicing black and sex magic (the latter of which I try to practice as often as I can), is somehow (most times very closely associated) with a.) part of the Christian church, b.) a member of the Christian clergy, c.) a layperson who is a devout Christian and feels guilty about what he sees as sinful practice.

Why only Christians? No, not the level-headed ones that you probably find in Masonic lodges, but the overzealos, overly-devout ones.

Examples:

1.) That business about spitting on the cross as part of a Masonic "test" for young masons to determine if they are fit to study the "black arts" . . . . . . . . BOTH instances I found on Google were from www.cuttingedgeministries.com. In fact, ALOT of anti-masonic propaganda is from cutingedgeministries.com. A Christian organization, or one that claims to be.

2.) ALL of the personal testimony of people who left the masons (quit) suggest clearly that they are Crhistians who felt guilty about one thing or another.

3.) The misquotations about "the seething energies of Lucifer" and Satan-related writing attributed to Albert Pike comes from . . . . . you guessd it ! Christian groups. Mostly "web-ministries" that sell books and preach the benefits of being "saved" by Christ.

What does all this mean?

Interesting how I don't see the same kind of propaganda (or ANY propaganda) from Muslim masons, or Buddhist masons, or the ultimate in FREEDOM and taking it easy: Taoist masons. many of these groups, as far as I know, don't use the word "satan", and some don't even have a comparable 'evil" deity. There is no Taoist "hell", for instance . . . . just alot of partying and nature-loving. I think the same goes for Shinto.

1.) The Chrstian church has always seen Freemasonry as subversive. Why? Another power structure, aside from the state, that has a membership, has secrets, and uh . . . oh yes, also has money and more than a little bit of power.

2.) "Satan", and this is more of an assumption so please correct me if I'm wrong, is a Christian creation. Christianity itself is, as far as I know, a creation. It is no better and no worse than Islam, Bddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, etc. Hinduism . . . .hundreds of gods . . .can 600 million people be wrong???? ;-)

So, in reality, when masons are accused of worhipping satan, they are actually accused of worshipping a Christian creation, which carresi with it Christian conception of what is wright and wrong. Hindus worship elephant and animal gods . . .so should they be called "pagans" and "Satanists"?? I wonder what the Hindus and Muslims call the forms of worship practiced by Chrstians.

Seems like none of the other faiths feel threatened by Freemasonry. I suppose fundamentalist Christians feel that Christianity is the only TRUE faith. Oh well. Can't please everyone.

With my sincere apologies to good, decent and REASONABLE Christians (if I've given them offense), but in reality, the accusation and label "satanist", means very little, aside from perhaps a deity that is claimed to be "evil" (again, "evil" in relation to what?? Islamic "evil", Buddhist "evil", Or Taoist "evil" (ther is no such thing as Taosit "evil"), that is almsot exclusively a Christian creation and which has been used as a weapon by fundamnetalist Chrstian bodies/organzations for the purposes of stamping out what they felt wa a threat to their faith (as opposed to the faith of Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, Shinto, Zoroastrinaism, etc.)

I look forward to joining the masons. It looks like they need more intelligent, reasonable, and open-minded advocates.

Thanks for reading.



P.S. Please excuse any typos. . . . it's early.

[edit on 7-8-2004 by LTD602]

[edit on 8-8-2004 by John bull 1]

You have singled out Christianity.

I would just like to point out to you that most Islamic countries have the same viewpoint when it comes to Freemasonry.
In fact they are even more intolerant and have banned it.

No Freemason I know, would ever worship Satan. Freemasons worship their own gods and the major teaching contained within masonry is one of morality. Worship of immorality has no place in Freemasonry.

Interesting thoughts, LTD. At first I wondered if you were a wolf in sheep's clothing, but now I see that you have real curiosity about Masonry.

Yes, one wonders about religions that embrace guilt for their members. Relgions that don't want their menbers to seek knowledge that is nor pre-approved.

Didn't the Catholic Church invent the Knights of Columbus to create an approved club for their men?

In addition to Leveller's remarks about Islamic intolerance of Masonry, I would like to addthat groups such as the Nazis under Hitler were also anti-Mason.

Welcome to ATS, LTD. Enjoy your stay here and good luck in joining Masonry.
FYI, I am a pro-Mason woman with an interest in the alleged "hidden knowledge".

No, I'm not a wolf in sheep's clothing, but maybe that little dog that follows you around everywhere you go, poking into every cardboard box, rummaging through piles of clothing, sniffing into every nook and cranny.

So in other words, I ask questions, and then I question my own questions, which is what I'm doing right now: Maybe I've gone a bit too far and have made it appear that I'm singling out Christians. No one's fault but my own. Mea Culpa. The fact remains, however, that poor source or not, the net is a repository of information, and at the moment I have no time to find any actual masonic scholarship (if any exists), because I'm tied up with other kinds of scholarship, mostly of the Roman history kind. What struck me as fascinating is that the majority (VAST majority) of anti-masonic propaganda comes from, as I noted, Christians. Maybe others propagate anti-masonic views, but Christians (perhaps the fundamentalist kind) have elevated it to a fine art using the internet as a medium - read INTERNET, which is what I've been using exclusively for information about masons. Not the best idea, but ther are people, likesome of you, who are setting me straight and helping me filter my info.

While it goes without saying that most Christians are good poeple, as are Muslims, Buddhists, and so on, there is a group of them that is more vocal than others, especially on the internet. Fear and guilt are tactics they usually employ.

My faith in God is motivated by Love, not the fear of some fire and brimstone cosmic basement.

There are many sites on the internet that are run by masons. Most every state in America has a site for their Grand Lodge. Do a google or yahoo search for "Grand Lodge" and state you want.

Eh,

I will prolly get flamed for this, but I don't care - been getting flamed for these views since I left Christianity ....... I DO single out Christians. Perhaps it is due to a stigma from my childhood/early adulthood, and being bashed thereafter - I don't know.

I've carried lengthy conversations with Buddhists, been friends with a few Muslims, and know have had meaningful platonic relationships with many other religions (just not namely offhand), and now believe I share thoughts with a Mason (almost Mason, grin) ...... NONE off them were set off by my religion, as I theirs. But ......... well, you finish the sentence.

I DO know that I hear no other religion profess against any OTHER religion with such blatant 'holier than thou' adamacy as Christians.

Bear in mind, I do realize there are Christians that do NOT follow that thought process, I actaully met one a while back (note: one).

I have been labeled a "Satanist" simply because I have found a path more meaningful to me, that raises my awareness of not only myself but of OTHER humans outside my faith, to practice tolerance at utmost, and for me seems more of a spiritual (and in my opinion - moral) path than Christianity. I guess the fact that I have dis-associated myself from the Bible might be pertitnat, lolol.

At times I feel sorry for them, blind sheep they are. Never fails that when one asks me why I wear the necklace I do, and I curteously (as my teaching would have me be) tell them - their reply is ALWAYS.........you are going to HELL !! jeez louise - get a life. Well, I don't tell them that, I do however smile and say something similar of "open your mind instead of just your ears, you'de be suprised what you learn beyond what you've been taught.

Ironic also is, on MANY boards I frequent, when this deal about the war crap going on comes up, a self-prefessed Christian (I have never witnessed a another faith spewing this) almost always shouts out "send the nukes and let God sort them out". First, yep - real 'loving, forgiving, caring, Samaritan' attitude there. Second, my response is always "who's god? yours or theirs?". The reply is alway the jibberish of "only one true god, the god of the Bible" ...... to that I send "how do you KNOW that is the only true god?" Of which, of course, gets me ....... you guessed it : "Because the Bible tells me so!" lmdao

Hell, I'm motor-mouthing.
Ya thing I have some issues? lol

I prolly have no real point to make here, other than saying your views are shared and respected, not chastised, from one of another faith :=}

Be Well

Misfit

[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]

Esther said:

I don't think the Masons are all Satan-Worshippers, just as not all policemen rough you up when they arrest you. But some do. And those are the ones who should be weeded out by their own "society brothers" for the sake of purifying the name of an organization which most likely began with the noblest intentions.

So, you are saying some Masons worship "satan"??? Do you have any proof of this???
At one time, I almost agreed with you and thought there was a secret, upper level to masonry where all the power broekrs were. After getting to know the Masons here and learning more about what Masons do, I can say with much certainty that this could not be true. This brotherhood is devoted to personal betterment and growth, and doing good deeds. No evil in that.

Perhaps you were given bad information?

Originally posted by LTD602
No, I'm not a wolf in sheep's clothing, but maybe that little dog that follows you around everywhere you go, poking into every cardboard box, rummaging through piles of clothing, sniffing into every nook and cranny.

Well, curiousity is one of my favorite things. It makes life worth living.
And dogs are most welcome around me . Just call me an old animal lover from way back

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
At one time, I almost agreed with you and thought there was a secret, upper level to masonry where all the power brokers were. After getting to know the Masons here and learning more about what Masons do, I can say with much certainty that this could not be true.

So, I take it that you got the eggs, incubator, and cash payment OK?
Keep up the good support.

This brotherhood is devoted to personal betterment and growth, and doing good deeds. No evil in that.
Perhaps you were given bad information?

There would really be no place for a Satan worshiper or even an atheist in Masonry. I mean the basic beliefs would be totally different. NO! I am NOT talking about morality issues here. Just basic beliefs. Now, I am sure many atheists would have the morality issues covered, but without a basic belief in a God / Supreme Being, then they would not find Masonry interesting at all. Obviously a Satan worshiper would not want to attend a fraternity where their religious beliefs are opposite of the members.

the world is ever changing and people are realising how flawed the bible actually is and the fundies can't accept that. so of course there gona automatically asume that the world is under the influence of satan and that satan is ruling this world. dont get me wrong though, i feel for them and all. hell, i tried going back to christianity for all of a month a couple years ago (to give them the benifit of the doubt) and it was the suckiest and most confusing month of my life.

[edit on 7-8-2004 by mutehalo]

Originally posted by JCMinJapan
So, I take it that you got the eggs, incubator, and cash payment OK?
Keep up the good support.

Indeed, all arrived safely and are set up as instructed.
This arrangement works well for me. The next shipment can be doubled, if necessary

[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]

[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]

This kind of falls in line with my theory about the Masons

In a nutshell:
The Masons are the newer name for the Knights Templar who back during the first Crusade went digging around the old Temple in Jeruselem and discovered SOMETHING. This SOMETHING gave them conformation of previous ideas they had about the nature of the Christ. They then set about building their order to do one thing DESTROY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH and its hold on European minds. They did this under the nose of the pope himself. Well all this came to a crashing end in October of 1312 (i think) and the Knights went underground with a new mission. If we cant destroy the Church in Europe we can destroy it in the New world (which they already knew about !) SO they set about forming underground secret societies (Masons) toward the goal of colonising and building a religion safe zone in the new world this all culminated in the formation of the USA. after the foundation of this new secular nation the order set about getting down to some serious enlghtning!

Just the basics but I think there is a lot of evidence to point toward this being the case the basic points being the Masonic belief that a man only has to believe in a divine "Creator" ( like it says in the Constitution) and does not need to believe in the Judeo-christian faith! I think the founding fathers were working toward a plan from back in the ages to free the minds of men from the chains of religious dogma and superstition.

Grenadier . . . . can I have some of that weed, too???

Right. What the Templars found was a huge phallus made of Venetian marble. Since they were all homosexuals to begin with - a secret men's club, remember? - they fell to their knees and began worshipping it, calling it Fahtkok, the Phallus God. Of course, this Phallus deity is actually Satan in phallic form, since sex is evil and unnatural. When the Templars were uprooted in France they fled and eventually merged with the Freemasons. This explains the Washington monument and the masons' involvement in the building of the United States. Is it any wonder that Presidents who were also masons were HUGE?? Seriously. Just ask Monica. Once you go mason you never go back. To this day Fahtkok remains an integral part of Masonic dark magic, and comes in many forms and colours, such as black, ribbed or ridged, smooth, vibrating, even what a layperson might call a "pocket rocket."

It's all about dick, people. That's it.

Ya think this story 'l fly at my interview ?

[edit on 8-8-2004 by LTD602]

Looks like Grenadier has been reading "The Hiram Key".

Not even all the masons ascribe to that theory...

Originally posted by LTD602
Seriously. Just ask Monica. Once you go mason you never go back.

Now, see, that's the kind of rumor I'd like to be spread about Masons more often

Esther: All very well and good, but have you ever thought that God might operate outside of the envelope? You're giving Him human characteristics and putting limits on them.
And by your own argument, God would have created Satan. Yet you don't credit him with being a part of God's plan. You tie Satan in as the necessary balance, yet have him operating outside of God's knowledge or will.
Satan is merely a tool of God or maybe even an aspect, but he is not the Supreme Being.

Grenadier: I suggest some serious literature study regarding the KT for a change. The conspiracy theories surrounding them are majorly bunk. The KT were destroyed because they were wealthy. You ned to understand the politics and history of the time in which they were operating. You should also understand that they were a Christian order operating under Papal approval and this wasn't rescinded until the king of France had the pope in his pocket and went after their money.