Why God had to create the Devil

Originally posted by Amuk

Either you are all knowing or not you cant have it both ways.

If God doesnt know the future then ALL the prophices in the bible are just Gods guesses then,.....right?

Im just saying that if God created you knowing everything you would ever do that would make free will just a illusion. You would not have any free will then you would just be doing what you were created for.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Originally posted by Amuk

Either you are all knowing or not you cant have it both ways.

If God doesnt know the future then ALL the prophices in the bible are just Gods guesses then,.....right?

Im just saying that if God created you knowing everything you would ever do that would make free will just a illusion. You would not have any free will then you would just be doing what you were created for.

And I am just saying if we have freewill even God does not know what will happen, so how can the book of Revelations be true?

[edit on 8-8-2004 by Amuk]

Maybe the book is not true. If satan really thought it was true would he be fighting in the first place. Perhaps it is one possible outcome, I dont think 1/3 of the angels would rebel if they knew they had no chance of winning. The would have known God in person and they thought they could take him anyway. Maybe he is not all powerful after all

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Maybe the book is not true. If satan really thought it was true would he be fighting in the first place. Perhaps it is one possible outcome, I dont think 1/3 of the angels would rebel if they knew they had no chance of winning. The would have known God in person and they thought they could take him anyway. Maybe he is not all powerful after all

If the book of Revelations is not true, then the whole Bible is not true either

Misfit

The book of Revelations is the only part of the bible that deals with future events. They rest of the bible only tells the story of events that have already occured

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
The book of Revelations is the only part of the bible that deals with future events. They rest of the bible only tells the story of events that have already occured

Future/past - irrelevant

The Bible is taught/preached as infallable, nothing in it is wrong, from Gen to Rev is the truth, bar none.

1/66 wrong = 66/66 wrong

Misfit

The outcome as written in Revelations will no doubt happen and it will be true. But it is not the only truth and thus its not the only outcome. Every possible outcome can and will happen

Originally posted by Misfit

Future/past - irrelevant

The Bible is taught/preached as infallable, nothing in it is wrong, from Gen to Rev is the truth, bar none.

1/66 wrong = 66/66 wrong

Misfit

True, they have backed themselves into the corner with that. Its a catch 22.

They dont sell ity as suggestions for a better life or stories from the past, etc

It is the infallable, nonchangable, allknowing from before the universe even exsited truth

Originally posted by Amuk
so how can the book of Revelations be true?

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Maybe the book is not true.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
The outcome as written in Revelations will no doubt happen and it will be true.

Are you (ShadowXIX) a politician?

Misfit

Edit = whom I was referring to

[edit on 8-8-2004 by Misfit]

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
The outcome as written in Revelations will no doubt happen and it will be true. But it is not the only truth and thus its not the only outcome. Every possible outcome can and will happen

According to there book there is only ONE truth and they have it. No other outcome is even possible, that God knew what I would have for breakfast this morning before the universe was ever created

Originally posted by Misfit

Originally posted by Amuk
so how can the book of Revelations be true?

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Maybe the book is not true.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
The outcome as written in Revelations will no doubt happen and it will be true.

Are you (ShadowXIX) a politician?

Misfit

Edit = whom I was referring to

[edit on 8-8-2004 by Misfit]

One truth is not the only truth a outcome can be true and false at the same time. Both outcomes happen so they are all true and all false at the same time. The outcome you perceive is your truth but it is not the only outcome and not the only truth.

What if the reason he does not know is becuase he has not been with us for so long? What if he does know but does not wish to do anything? What if he is currently busy with other matters? What if he is waiting for a time to do something? What if he knows what he is doing?

Whats the point of all these what ifs? I dont know .

Personally if i know something is going to happen when I do it is that going to stop me? If God knew what would happen after creating the devil and decided to follow through with it, then thats what he chose. If i choose to go get a cookie, then I will go get one. So lets say he knew that Eve would eat from the tree. And even though he told her not to, what if he was testing us? What if he actually wanted it to happen?

You cant just go and say becuase he said something thats what he ment. Sometimes ill say that i dont want someone to go rent a movie but in reality i know that i want to watch it and i know that they will get it anyway. I know you might be thinking "thats just plain idiocy" but why? Why cant I or God for that matter, say something but wanted to check a theory or just plain screw around with you. We are not all knowing, God is. We do not know why he does stuff and should not judge him. He does what he does for a purpose, wether good or bad.

What if he is allowing all this to happen to allow for a more advanced, more experianced/fruitfull event to take place?

We all need knowledge, and we learn best through personall experiances. God knows this and he has taken all into concideration. So he does stuff "just becuase"

The reason I make the comment in my last post is that I do not believe if hell and neither in the devil.

Human�s purpose in this live is to learn from live experiences and to become better spiritually.

Our creator is not there to condemn or to make judgment like most people believe and he has nothing to gain from torturing human kind or giving passes to heaven or hell like candy that is not his purpose.

Men are the ones that created all of the perils of humankind.

When humanity learns to free itself from all this web of misunderstandings and believes it will become enlightened and life in earth will be a lot more pleasant.

The only part of us that is in the image of the creator is our souls.

Originally posted by mutehalo
i belive that god is all things including the devil. i personally dont buy the idea that god is pure light. because if god is everything, he is both the light and the darkness.

Hi,
Well, by "god" if you mean father Yahweh.

First, "the devil" as is portrayed in many movies and books is just a fable and fiction. Father Yahweh has sons. The angels are also called "sons of eloahim" as they are eloah beings.

There is a group called "the satan," in Hebrew ha-satan. "ha" means "the." Satan is not an actual name. They are part of father Yahweh's purpose too. But let me state that the chief satan has not been cast out of the third heavens yet where father Yahweh dwells. However, iniquity will be found in him. As a matter of fact, he was created perfect in his ways until iniquity is found in him. Many people believe that he's been already cast out, but this is simply not the case if one studies the actual wording.

Here is the thing. Lucifer is not the name of the chief satan. That is something a lot of people think and there's been tons upon tons of articles and stuff written about this. Lucifer is Latin for the planet Venus and is not the proper name of an individual. It's only in the KJ one time, I believe, in Isa. 14. And while Isa. 14 is talking about the chief satan who when he's cast out tries to put himself above father Yahweh, you'll note in that chapter that when people find out who he is, it's just totally unbelievable.

For example, it's said: Is this the man who made the earth temble, shaking kingdoms, etc? It's said with kind of an exclamation and surprise.

Now, we are not specifically told his name in the Scriptures, but many of the early Christians knew who he was. If you do a lot of studying, you can kind of figure it all out. However, I will not repeat it because I don't know for sure 100 percent. It's best not to say in these circumstances and out of respect for the sacred ones.

Tiza

[Edited on 10/2/2004 by esther]

He has so many names. Abaddon, Lucifer, Serpent, Diablo, Dragon , Satan ect... Does it really make a difference what we call him.

Why not. It could just all be a game for Gods amusment, sick or not we all like a horror movie to bring up the heart rate every once in a while

Let me just say that no one on this board can speak authoritatively regarding events or the personalities of the super-material world. No one here can prove the existence of God or of an after-life or anything that is beyond empericism.

Many of us know that God exists because we have experienced him, but that experience is personal and the best we can do to share that experience is to share with our brethren the love of God. No argument can ever convince the unwilling. Only our lives can speak to the reality of God.

Regardless, there are many manuscripts which purport to describe the super-material existence and its myriad entities and events, including Lucifer and his rebellion. This is one of them.

[edit on 04/8/8 by GradyPhilpott]

Hi...I'm new here. I hope you don't mind me adding my two-cents worth.

According to my Mom, who's had numeous near-death experiences, there are no actual places called heaven or hell...it's all a state of mind/consciousness. Basically, if your heart's in the right place and your intentions are good/well meaning...you'll experience a heaven-like existence. If you're a scumbag with murderous intentions in your heart...you'll find yourself in literally a dark place void of light and goodness.

God didn't create a devil or anything evil...that's man's own doing. Evil is the absence of good. The so-called devil was created by ancient churches to control mankind with. What better way is there to control and manipulate the masses than with the threat of an evil entity who'll torture you and devour your soul?

The Bible is a collection of parables that was and still is used by the churches to control its followers with. This is evident by such religions as the Jehovah's Witnesses who use selective passages with which to create their own system of beliefs. Notice how even the Catholics in recent times have adjusted their own doctrines especially related to hell. The Pope announced that there is no hell. Anyone who believes that The Bible withstood the ravages of centuries without being altered under the guarded watch of we humans...well, will believe just about anything.

Originally posted by LadyV
LOL...there is no devil, not really anyway. Perhaps a negative entity

I agree with LadyV, even if we don't share beliefs.

The Adversary is a concept. In essence it is "seeing" a choice other than "the will of God". But "negative entities" are quite real.

]Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Humans were not the only created beings which had been given a "free will" by God. His angels were also given this ability to choose. Lucifer was not created as a evil being. God would know all possible outcomes of what Lucifer would do but if he knew exactly what he would do it wouldnt really be free will now would it.

Either you are all knowing or not you cant have it both ways.

If God doesnt know the future then ALL the prophices in the bible are just Gods guesses then,.....right?

As shadow said, God knows all possible outcomes.

The fallacy of this discussion is the assumption that ours is the only reality. I'll let you study "Many Worlds Quantum Theory" on your own.

But to try to put it into perspective, God sees the "present" in which you woke up and had cereal for breakfast, as well as the "present" in which you woke up and had bacon and eggs for breakfast, as well as the "present" in which you slept in until noon and had lunch.


Edit:
Concerning the original post:
Electricity is moving electons. All electrons are negative. So, your thoughts are not really all that logical.

[edit on 9-8-2004 by Raphael_UO]