Can people control their feelings and thoughts?

Originally posted by James1982

Originally posted by Amaterasu

No, but if You train Yourself, You can get in the habit of thinking of a goldfish every time You think of a cheeseburger... In this way, You can control Your thoughts. Also... By changing HOW You think of something, You can control Your emotions.

Oh but there lies the problem. I don't think I was very specific with what I meant by controlling thoughts. I mean completely stopping yourself from ever experiencing a specific emotion about something, or ever thinking a single thought. Not just re-directing that thought or emotion after it has already occurred. When you say to think of a goldfish whenever you think of a cheeseburger, you already thought of the cheeseburger, so while you can re-direct a thought, I don't think you can ever stop it from occurring in the first place.

Ah. Well, I doubt We can ensure a given thought does not occur to Us ever. What does One do when the Guy next to One spouts the exact though One is avoiding? But... This does not mean We are stuck with that thought.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
You have the cart before the horse here. Feelings are extensions of thoughts.

I'm of the opinion the opposite is true. When you are with someone you really care for, you feel happy, content, etc. Then you start to think about how much you care for the person, how much they care for you, things you enjoy doing together, etc.

Though Your thoughts may not be fully conscious, when You first meet someOne You like, You are thinking things like, Is this the One who will make Me happy? (S)He sure is good looking. (S)He does arouse Me. I like the things (S)He says. And so on. You don't get feelings for someOne before You meet Them. You have to meet and then have thoughts about the Other.

You can feel an emotion without thinking about events or concepts.

Except that the thoughts in that case are more subconscious, uncontrolled. It's not that You are not thinking. It's that You are not aware that You are thinking. First You think about the event, then You feel, whether You are aware that the thoughts evoked the emotion or not.

I think that emotions are more basic, "lower lifeforms" can probably feel basic emotions, but don't really form complex thoughts about those emotions.

If You never think about something You detest, You will not experience that distaste. In fact, most people feel without any complex thought about what They are feeling. Most allow the reactionary nature of emotions to carry Them without being aware They had the thought that initiated the feelings. It is through persistent Self-observation that One becomes aware of this relationship.

Perhaps it's more of a chicken and the egg type of deal, but if anything I still think that thoughts stem from emotions, not the other way around. Although the language we use here is probably inadequate to fully explore these ideas.

And I am certain that a thought has to exist first. What is "a thought?" It is the moment of significant awareness of difference from expectations of a reasoning or of the surroundings (and combinations thereof). At THAT point, the physiological effects of the emotive system are engaged, but that is in response to what the Mind has processed first. This has been proven with about a two second gap, on average, I am led to believe, with the greatest effect in "shocking" news situations. Often if One is standing, the knees feel weakness and People do fall.

No, but that is not the same as controlling Your thoughts. When One thinks a negative thought - about a group, say, and has trained Oneself to stop and think, It's silly at best and hurtful at worst to generalize all people in any way; everyOne is an individual. This will change One's feelings.

I'll agree that you can realize that having negative opinions of a race is stupid, pointless, and has no basis in reality. But, as I believe an emotion is the most basic form, that you can never really stop the way you feel about a race, if you are a racist for example.

And I contend that as long as You obey the three Laws You may hold that view all You want. Be that as it may, when One stops Oneself and redirects the thoughts and the reactions, it can lead to that thought that had been the redirection becoming the response. Perhaps this takes diligence to accomplish, but it can be done.

Example: When I was growing up I was indoctrinated into the "Nuclear Power is Cool!" idea. For a long time I would not see the problems and had very visceral reactions to those who opposed its use. When I finally got data that smacked Me in the face about how bad that source of energy is - mainly through contemplating crustal upheaval years ago - My reactions were the same at first. I would feel, No, You're wrong. It's a great form of energy!

But then I would think of it in terms of waste and upheaval and My feelings would shift. Now, of course, I have a very negative reaction to the idea of pursuing nuclear energy, immediately upon thinking of it at all.

Just sayin'.

You can perhaps stop yourself from thinking that they are actually bad in any way, and rationalize that they are people like everyone else, but if you have that seed sewn in your heart, I don't think you can ever completely stop that immediate gut reaction. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Well certainly not if You expect failure, I'm guessing. I'm here to tell You that One CAN control and recreate Their emotional responses.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

You seem to be suggesting that the emotions somehow get the attention of the mind when there is danger. Like, "Why am I feeling this fear? I had better look around.

Seem to be? That is precisely what I am suggesting.

Oh.

Well then, while I am a believer in "ESP" - communication CAN be telepathic, and CAN flow from the future - I do not believe the subconscious is alerted of issues because emotions tapped the mind on the figurative shoulder.

Your "personal experience" in "meditation" is the basis for your claim?

In part, yes. Do You discount hands-on experience now? Does all information have to flow from an "expert?"

I have offered my credentials.

And thank You for them.

You say you meditate.

I do.

So do I, and have for years, as well as studying a variety of spiritual approaches and scientific approaches to the mind/brain/spirit mystery. Aside from my own personal (subjective) and professional (objective) experience and education.

Awesome! And I say the same. We're so similar, having delved deeply and passionately into arcane and open sources of information, and worked on Our own to understand this mystery, the body/Mind connection.

"LOL" is disrespectful and rude.

Oh.

[laughing out loud] I apologize if My jovial nature failed to come across. I take things far less seriously than some expect of Me, I guess.

Emotions are instincts. A person can -- and does -- feel anxiety and pain and happiness and CAN BE UNAWARE of what CAUSED it.

Instincts affect emotion, yes, but the question was not whether they do, but whether We can have control how We respond, and while I say it is impossible to will Oneself to never think of something again, it IS possible to control the emotional response to the stimulus by controlling the conscious thought.

Consciously, I am sure You're correct that One might be unaware. But there's more at work here than the conscious "Oh gee look!"

People who suffer, for example, panic attacks (which I did for a time decades ago) don't know WHY. With work they can dig into their unconscious thoughts and perhaps find out. But panic attacks come on of their own accord, for NO APPARENT REASON.

I, too, used to suffer from panic attacks. And it's interesting You should bring up this very example. You see, MY solution, based on Choice Theory, was to ask Myself WHY I WAS CHOOSING to have a panic attack. What I found most interesting was that, though I seldom got an answer, I would stop panicking. It was almost eerie.

At first I had frequent opportunity to ask Myself that question - and getting the attacks to stop. Now I rarely feel that racing-heart-OMG-I'm-having-a-heart-attack-it's-all-ending! feelings, and on the rare occasion, the trick still works.

The clinician's job is to help the person IDENTIFY the REASONS -- which can be either external or internal stimulus -- they might be suffering panic attacks. You seem to be saying that INTUITION is a fiction.

I think there is more to things than classical physics offers, and that includes intuition - which is initiated mainly when One has a choice. (Foreboding is when One does not.) But that does not mean the emotions propel the mind. If One unconsciously reaches out into the fields and gets answers, thoughts start feelings which the conscious mind then becomes aware of.

Is Glasser the only theory you've read?

Nope. But it IS the only one that I have gained anything useful from.

I have no interest in convincing you, your apparent "judgment" of me is, well, inappropriate and arrogant.

It seems You're taking My points personally. Do I now apologize for this? I have made no judgment of YOU. Only Your information. And if You read arrogance from My words, just know, I intend none.

I would merely suggest you are aware of a very elementary text written for lay people. That particular book is written for the novice.

Whether it is or whether it isn't is irrelevant. Whether the contents provide something useful is. (And I have read at least two of Glasser's books and at least one paper.)

Unless you have some claim to a secret understanding of how all this works, and are an expert in the field, you have no grounds on which to intelligently judge others' knowledge and experiences.

Wow. Really? Wow.

How arrogant of You to assume *I* am clueless unless I have become an expert in something! You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. I am a Jack of all sciences, Master of none - and VERY good at synthesizing.

I do not have reason to believe that you have a better understanding of how the mind and brain works than anyone else, and IMO, your knowledge is quite limited and shallow. Do some deeper independent research into theory and spirituality, intuition and emotion.

Wow. Ok, dude. That I have spent 50ish years doing so I am sure is irrelevant. Maybe when I'm 108 I'll have a clue?

Thoughts and feelings are two separate realms.

[sigh]

Ok. If You say so. I'm sure They are entirely unconnected.

But thanks for playing.

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[snicker] Oh. Sorry. I was just amused by the zillion unexplained edits. As for playing, yeah, sure, whatever.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

It's not like an event occurs and a feeling is pushed into Your head.

I disagree, it is exactly like that. You put a hand into cold water, you feel cold, there is no control over it. Something bad happens, you automatically feel fear or anger. You see a sexy woman, you automatically feel attraction to her. These "emotional reflexes" are for the most part beyond conscious control, managed by lower parts of the brain.

1. I am not speaking of physical sensation. I am speaking of emotional reaction.
2. I did not say the initial response can be controlled. It can't. But after about two seconds, One can mold One's feelings in response.
3. I am not speaking of biological instinct. Though it is related, it is not emotion. It causes One think on those lines, which creates the emotions One has associated with the biological function.
4. The initial responses are "beyond conscious control," this is true. What We then do in the face of these We have complete control over - IF We know how.

reply to post by Maslo


I used to think the same thing once. This guy convinced me otherwise.

People are responsible for how they feel. Their own thoughts are their own thoughts.

This assumes it is their own thoughts. Perhaps when people are "programmed" they aren't really theirself (to a degree)?

reply to post by karfer


Interesting concept karfer ... Programs ... now I wonder where they come from? Huh! Just think ... maybe there are 'programs' that 'steer' thinking in certain directions without the conscious awareness of the thinker. Now, why would someone put programs in our thinking? Hmmm ... thinking TV, Media and the like ... double hmmmm ... Perhaps books on psychology might lead one to ask... so, how much do we really know about how we tick? and is there anyone else that does know, and may be using this to it's own advantage ... Hmmm.

I wonder why things are like they are in our world? Interesting concepts indeed, that require pondering in more depth. Yes?

Originally posted by Amaterasu


I, too, used to suffer from panic attacks. And it's interesting You should bring up this very example. You see, MY solution, based on Choice Theory, was to ask Myself WHY I WAS CHOOSING to have a panic attack. What I found most interesting was that, though I seldom got an answer, I would stop panicking. It was almost eerie.

At first I had frequent opportunity to ask Myself that question - and getting the attacks to stop. Now I rarely feel that racing-heart-OMG-I'm-having-a-heart-attack-it's-all-ending! feelings, and on the rare occasion, the trick still works.

You are not your thoughts. (Accept everything arising-Jesus)
You are not your mind. (Mind is irrelevant-Buddha)
You are not your body. (Body is love-Krishna)
You are prior to them. (Ego sacrifice-Adi Da)

You are choosing to be identified with them. Thus by Not choosing to be
identified with them you can transcend them. Thus you have found a bit
of the strategy to deal with consciousness.

Adi Da explained that your actions are what creates the ego.
You are constantly meditating upon yourself, your ego, your sense of
separation.
You are always,"Avoiding being already entirely in relationship." to
all arising experiences.
LIFE IS THUS ALWAYS A REACTION TO EXPERIENCE IN FEAR.
Prior to this reaction there is no fear only Love/Bliss.

You can read Shakespeare in English or in the Original Klingon.
Your Choice.

I shout to the deaf. Da?