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Ron Paul: End Obamacare, Abolish the IRS, Eliminate Support for Big Government

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posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by inforeal
 


Part of the government's job is to PROTECT the rights of the individual.

Some government intervention IS necessary. That doesn't go against Libertarian principles. Libertarians aren't about NO government they're about small and CONSTITUTIONAL government.




posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by inforeal
reply to post by Skerrako
 


I can’t believe it, a libertarian saying the government should intervene!
So now you agree with me when real life scenarios prove that “inalienable rights” are not absolute.


You really have no idea what the Libertarian platform is about, do you? Libertarians aren't anti-government. We are for Constitutionally-limited government. The Constitution outlines exactly what the government is allowed to do. But they have overreached their authority, and we let them do it.

Now Obama thinks he has the authority to step outside the boundaries of the Constitution and does, because Congress lets it happen.

I get what you are saying about absolute rights. A good friend of mine says "if a right can be infringed upon, then it isn't a right". I happen to disagree with you both, but it's all philosophical. It's like saying you can't cross a room because first you have to go halfway, then halfway again, and so on. You will be infinitely far away from the other side. But in practice, you can cross the room. Just like in practice, rights are absolute. Just because they can be infringed upon doesn't make them any more or less rights.

/TOA



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


Fine and dandy, then it all is a matter of degrees, I can accept that.

When more Americans are living at a poverty level than usual, cant find a job, have no health care, and many are homeless, all through no fault of their own, because they are members of this society, then IMO the government should intervene with programs to alleviate these macro problems.

People like Ron Paul believe that the market will take care of things, but history and common sense illustrates otherwise.

It was the “free market” that brought down the economy in 2008, because the Glass- Steagel act was eliminated that put controls on Banks. Libertarians and Conservatives are always the first to defend the crooked banksters that destroyed the economy with their hatred for REGULATION.

It always happens when people are deceived to go for the nonsense that deregulation stops capitalism’s growth. And then what happens is what occurred in 2008 bailout and depression, or the savings and loan scandal in the 80’s, or the Enron scandal in the 90’s.

Even in the depression of 1920’ deregulation of Wall Street had a big effect on that.
All these events were started by deregulation and all ended in economic disaster, because politicians like Ron Paul demonize regulation.

Now when it comes to things like drugs, I happen to agree with Ron Paul on that.

I also think his foreign policy philosophy is very good



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


Fine and dandy, then it all is a matter of degrees, I can accept that.

When more Americans are living at a poverty level than usual, cant find a job, have no health care, and many are homeless, all through no fault of their own, because they are members of this society, then IMO the government should intervene with programs to alleviate these macro problems.

People like Ron Paul believe that the market will take care of things, but history and common sense illustrates otherwise.

It was the “free market” that brought down the economy in 2008, because the Glass- Steagel act was eliminated that put controls on Banks. Libertarians and Conservatives are always the first to defend the crooked banksters that destroyed the economy with their hatred for REGULATION.

It always happens when people are deceived to go for the nonsense that deregulation stops capitalism’s growth. And then what happens is what occurred in 2008 bailout and depression, or the savings and loan scandal in the 80’s, or the Enron scandal in the 90’s.

Even in the depression of 1920’ deregulation of Wall Street had a big effect on that.
All these events were started by deregulation and all ended in economic disaster, because politicians like Ron Paul demonize regulation.

Now when it comes to things like drugs, I happen to agree with Ron Paul on that.

I also think his foreign policy philosophy is very good



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by inforeal
 


no, people like Ron Paul believe that if you're in the gutter it is YOUR responsibility to pull yourself out. This is where economic liberty comes in. The problem with regulation is that it crowds out the little guy. It costs so much money in just licensing to start a business of any kind, even without a store front, that most people are discouraged from ever even trying.

Legalize liberty, my friend. And everything else comes with it.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by inforeal
 


no, people like Ron Paul believe that if you're in the gutter it is YOUR responsibility to pull yourself out. This is where economic liberty comes in. The problem with regulation is that it crowds out the little guy. It costs so much money in just licensing to start a business of any kind, even without a store front, that most people are discouraged from ever even trying.

Legalize liberty, my friend. And everything else comes with it.


This is why huge multi-conglomerates exist. The mom-and-pops have been regulated, taxed, and priced out. That happened under the watch of both the Republicans and the Democrats.

The Libertarian philosophy regarding business, well anything really, is that it will be self-regulating. The people will choose what business to frequent by what they sell, how they sell it, how customers are treated, how employees are treated, etc. The laws and regulations that are depressing the economy forcing businesses to operate how government wants them to operate are killing America. The people know what they want, but are prevented by big government from acquiring it. The government knows that it can get what it wants by force. And kills business, and economic prosperity, in the process.

/TOA



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by inforeal
 





I can’t believe it, a libertarian saying the government should intervene! So now you agree with me when real life scenarios prove that “inalienable rights” are not absolute.


Well yeah, I'm not an anarchist. Government is a necessary evil and when the framers tried to keep it tied down with the chains of the constitution. inalienable rights are absolute until what you are doing is interfering with someone else's.

As you said: libertarians are divided about the extent of government intervention, but commonly believe the intervention should be by city or state governments, definitely not federal. (Unless the states are deny the liberties of the citizens).

Checks and balances work well when big government isnt adding excess weight to their side
edit on 11-6-2011 by Skerrako because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by inforeal
 


You're missing the point... he's not saying these things are good or acceptable or right... he wants to return these powers to the states to deal with. It is almost certain the states will adopt policies and laws that will not allow a child to die needlessly.

Please understand that the real scare tactics here are those employed by the media and TPTB because he would return power to the people and the states and reduce the federal government.

When people wrongly talk of how he wants to legalize prostitution and/or drugs, they are displaying their own ignorance and reliance on the media to think for them. He doesn't want these things legalized... he wants the federal government out of that equation and place that responsibility back with the states where it belongs in accordance with the Constitution.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by The Old American
 


See my signature banner.


I haven't always supported him, because I didn't feel he was mounting a serious enough campaign, and I didn't feel he had a chance to win.

This time is different, and I will support him in every way that I can figure out!


I would consider that a character flaw, but at least you admit it, so there is hope



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 10:27 PM
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Everyone is always yelling about the symptoms, never the illness. Welfare, Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, Public Education, the IRS, blah blah blah. The illness is Fractional Reserve Banking. Our entire economy is based on banks not the citizens. A monetary system (gold for instance) would require banks to rely on it's customer's deposits in order to acquire money to loan. They would have to give people ACTUAL incentives like realistic interest rates and getting loans would be very difficult. Right now the banks are merely vehicles for injecting MORE money into the system. Nobody saves money anymore and if they do it's no safer under you mattress. It just sits there.

Look at the current CD Rates as of yesterday:

1-year CD 1.31% APY ($1000 min. balance)
3-year CD 2.00% APY ($500 min. balance)
5-year CD 2.75% APY ($500 min. balance)

You're lucky to find a savings account near 2%.

Look at them in 1994:

1994 Average CD Rates by Term

Term Rate
6-Month 5.050%
1-Year 5.223%
3-Year 6.026%
4-Year 7.077%
5-Year 6.783%

Savings (Historical DATA)



Where the hell is the incentive to put my money in the bank? The banks don't need your money anymore. Banks are no different than Wal-Mart. They're just selling widgets now and you're paying them fees out the rear end.

So if you fix the banking systems you will then be able to roll up your sleeves and get dirty fixing the rest. Of course switching out of fractional reserve banking is going to hurt like hell and many banks wont make it. I liken it to ripping off a bandage. You can do it slow and it will hurt the entire time throughout the process or you yank it off swiftly and then walk it off.

You gotta start at the top and work down.
edit on 11-6-2011 by onefreedomone because: Spelling and formatting.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by The Old American
 


Why don't we just go back to stone knives and bear skins.

The world looks with amazement at the implosion of America. They aren't the least bit unhappy, but they are amazed at the morons we have elected. or that we revere.

America is on it's way out the door. It will not be missed.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 10:53 PM
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I believe that Ron Paul is going to win in 2012.

The American citizens are growing tired of all these wars, the rising prices of gas, water and food. People are still searching for jobs while more each month go on unemployment. Ron Paul has been one of the few politicians that has repeatedly provided solutions to the key issues at hand for nearly 30 years.

As Americans, we need to change our living habits. We can't rely on corporations to grow our food, make our clothes, build our roads, build our vehicles, etc. And that is what Ron Paul is talking about when it comes to a free market. Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution and mass production we have lost our sense of community and have relied on a federal government to tell us how to live. We need the return of the Republic and state ran governments.

Ron Paul has solid solutions on all of the current issues. I don't understand how everyone doesn't see that he is truly trying to help you as a person. He's not looking to get rich or famous. He's trying to give you freedom.

Vote for the man.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 10:59 PM
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I completely agree with Dr. Paul!! Star and flag for OP. We need to get the word out. Ron paul is an intelligent and great man, and should be who is running this country!! I can't understand why anybody would not like him, or his views!!



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by inforeal
reply to post by projectvxn
 


When more Americans are living at a poverty level than usual, cant find a job, have no health care, and many are homeless, all through no fault of their own, because they are members of this society, then IMO the government should intervene with programs to alleviate these macro problems.

Show evidence of government programs that have fundamentally changed the economy for the better. I challenge you to do that and I don't think you can. The burden of proof is on you to show the government is competent enough to churn out a working program. I'll research this right along with you. You think of some programs and mention them, then we'll both go off researching the kind of effects they had.

I'll admit I think I know what all the answers will be, but its always fun to go and discover the patently obvious to an even bigger degree... the obvious being the Feds only screw everything they touch up vastly more than if they just kept their dirty mitts off of things. Its just a joke the terrible job they do, so this will be a funny project to laugh at. But who knows... you seem really sure of yourself so maybe I'll be proven wrong. Its happened before.



People like Ron Paul believe that the market will take care of things, but history and common sense illustrates otherwise.

It was the “free market” that brought down the economy in 2008, because the Glass- Steagel act was eliminated that put controls on Banks. Libertarians and Conservatives are always the first to defend the crooked banksters that destroyed the economy with their hatred for REGULATION.

It always happens when people are deceived to go for the nonsense that deregulation stops capitalism’s growth. And then what happens is what occurred in 2008 bailout and depression, or the savings and loan scandal in the 80’s, or the Enron scandal in the 90’s.


Your facts are just plain wrong. There was no free market in 2008. Not remotely close. The banking sector has been under a particularly nasty 100% regulation framework since 1913, and when the fascist banking system was started. The regulations you would put in as dictator would just be swatting at gnats and accomplishing nothing significant, since the banking system has had zero fundamental change since 1971. The Glass-Steagel act may have fiddled with the system a bit but to suggest it could have caused the current depression is ridiculous! You suggest the banking system has been deregulated but that is ridiculous since regulation is 100% when you consider the government money monopoly enjoyed by the federal reserve.

Liberty Dollar started to make a tiny speck of a dent in the money monopoly, but then the founder was thrown in prison for up to 25 years. Now we have Bitcoin with a potential to make a dent as well, and we can expect people running Bitcoin software to start going to prison in a year or two.

You say "capitalism's growth"... that is just so ignorant of the facts. The biggest single measure of capitalism in existence should be considered the ratio of government spending as a percentage of GDP. Higher government spending means less capitalism, while lower government spending is more capitalism. The fact of the matter is that capitalism has been shrinking to the point where it doesn't actually exist in America. If you think up a better measure of capitalism you go ahead and let me know. I know the Index of Economic Freedom is a good measure of capitalism and according to that index the US is *not* a capitalist country. Only Hong Kong is something resembling capitalism. So if you want to tell me about how terrible capitalism is, go and find out everything you can about Hong Kong, and then tell me how terrible their economy is doing compared to countries with similar amounts of natural resources.

Corporatism, Fascism, and socialism have all expanded over the past few decades in the USA. The single biggest loser of all is free-market proponents. NAFTA is free trade? No. Wrong. Buzz. NAFTA is hundreds of pages of meticulous regulation. If pro-free-trade advocate Ron Paul didn't vote for it, then it isn't free trade. I won't even bother checking his voting record on that because I've seen all I need to know about NAFTA and know it has nothing to do with free trade and therefore conclude it didn't have Ron Paul's vote.

The government you so love to solve everything actually caused the crisis we are seeing today. All the facts are out and all the data is available to show you exactly what happened and exactly why we're in a depression. So, lets go out and find some specific facts together and see what we find. The Glass-Steagal act was merely icing on the cake... the tip of the iceberg. That was not a piece of deregulation... it was merely a capstone of many changes leading to a larger money supply in the 100% regulation framework we know as the US banking system. The most horrific move taking place in 1971 when the gold standard was given a death bell by Nixon.

The US 100% regulation banking framework has never been significantly deregulated and may never be deregulated. Its a monopoly money game more or less like a grand pyramid scheme with amazing resilience. How it survived more than 20 years after 1971 is a truly amazing feat. Think the wars in the middle east are about oil? Yes and no... the wars were about oil, but the oil is in turn all about the strength of the US dollar. The mid-east wars are not really fought for oil but rather fought to keep up the strength of the US dollar.



Even in the depression of 1920’ deregulation of Wall Street had a big effect on that.
All these events were started by deregulation and all ended in economic disaster, because politicians like Ron Paul demonize regulation.

Yeah, the 30's depression couldn't have to do with the maniac economic policy brought about in 1913? A depression would certainly have been predicted as a result of the policies of 1913 by any free-market economist of the day and I bet they were predicted by those people. Just like the money supply insanity of the 90's lead free-market economists (and anarcho-capitalists) to predict the depression of today. The conversations I had at the time were more or less burned in my mind because I was playing the stock market at the time making a lot of money and people listened to what I had to say. And what I told them is that the US economy would enter a severe depression in the late 2000's if government spending went up instead of down.

I told my co-workers that if the government eased off of spending we'd have a nasty recession. But, if government instead increased spending, we'd find ourselves in a long-term depression. And I can tell you right now that the US economy will *never* recover if it maintains a spending to GDP ratio nearing 50%. That is Soviet-style collapse levels of spending right there.

This time the Feds you so love dear in 1971 basically put into policy a declaration that the US dollar is now fundamentally worthless. How was that for helping the economy? And it will in fact be on a path to worthlessness until the point where we once again restore sanity to the system. Its actually amazing how these things take so long to explode. First the 1913 policy of a fascist banking system took 16 years to lead to an initial collapse. But the 1971 economic policy took 37 years to lead to a collapse. And these are the people you think help us out in times of economic crisis? Ummm... these are the people causing it in the first place.

The whole world is entering an economic hell, and your grand plan is to give the people responsible for it a blank check to make it all better. But again, I'll happily go though and research with you government programs that in the past were implemented to "make things better". You name the program and I'll start my research.
edit on 11-6-2011 by civilchallenger because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 11:54 PM
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Ron Paul is a puppet of the corporations that support him. ALL MONEY COMES FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
Repeat: ALL MONEY COMES FROM THE GOVERNMENT. The rich support politicians who will a) relax laws
and regulations to allow them to make more money b) exempt as much of their money as possible from taxes.

All the privatizations and outsourcings are ways of making a larger profit from government money. Because,
private entities include something government services do not: They include PROFIT. So the government ends up
paying more for less.That means we end up paying more for less, and more of it is going into private pockets,
who stream part of their profits to politicians who will increase their profits even more. The rich LOVE being rich, and will do anything, including defrauding the public, polluting the environment, and generally doing ANYTHING
that will increase their obscene wealth.

You can not keep draining the treasury for these stupid white men. They have no intention of giving back, no
conscience, no souls. So let's keep funding those nuclear corporations, and allowing them to sicken and kill people and their children, without safety requirements, but most of all, completely WITHOUT LIABILITY.

SO, HURRAY FOR RON PAUL. Let's slide down this slippery slope with speed. Before anyone wakes up to this nightmare.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 12:27 AM
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I really wonder if any government officials ever look at this site? If they do, do they listen to what we are saying? Just because we say we'll vote for them or not does not mean they will get the message...I feel sometimes we're talking to ourselves here. Ron Paul has some good points, but that doesn't mean he'll get into office, I don't know for sure, but this whole political system (especially with Palin) seemed to walk right into some Barnum and Bailey circus act...



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 01:10 AM
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Originally posted by debbrown
Ron Paul is a puppet of the corporations that support him. ALL MONEY COMES FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
Repeat: ALL MONEY COMES FROM THE GOVERNMENT. The rich support politicians who will a) relax laws
and regulations to allow them to make more money b) exempt as much of their money as possible from taxes.

*snip for brevity*

You can not keep draining the treasury for these stupid white men. They have no intention of giving back, no
conscience, no souls. So let's keep funding those nuclear corporations, and allowing them to sicken and kill people and their children, without safety requirements, but most of all, completely WITHOUT LIABILITY.

SO, HURRAY FOR RON PAUL. Let's slide down this slippery slope with speed. Before anyone wakes up to this nightmare.







You should know that Ron Paul DOES NOT ACCEPT corporate funding AT ALL!

This is stated on his website....



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by debbrown
Ron Paul is a puppet of the corporations that support him. ALL MONEY COMES FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
Repeat: ALL MONEY COMES FROM THE GOVERNMENT. The rich support politicians who will a) relax laws
and regulations to allow them to make more money b) exempt as much of their money as possible from taxes.

All the privatizations and outsourcings are ways of making a larger profit from government money. Because,
private entities include something government services do not: They include PROFIT. So the government ends up
paying more for less.That means we end up paying more for less, and more of it is going into private pockets,
who stream part of their profits to politicians who will increase their profits even more. The rich LOVE being rich, and will do anything, including defrauding the public, polluting the environment, and generally doing ANYTHING
that will increase their obscene wealth.

You can not keep draining the treasury for these stupid white men. They have no intention of giving back, no
conscience, no souls. So let's keep funding those nuclear corporations, and allowing them to sicken and kill people and their children, without safety requirements, but most of all, completely WITHOUT LIABILITY.

SO, HURRAY FOR RON PAUL. Let's slide down this slippery slope with speed. Before anyone wakes up to this nightmare.






Everybody has the right to their opinion, but I beleive you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

"You can not keep draining the treasury for these stupid white men"
-Racism has no place here, and it makes you seem dumber for using racist remarks such as these.

Now, Please do yourself a favor, and start by at least reading Ron Paul's wikipedia page. He is absolutely the opposite of what you think he is. Read the bills he's introduced, and the way he's voted over the course of his political career.

Ron paul served in the United States Air Force. He has military experience. He also worked as an OBGYN, delivering babies and bringing life into this world.

He didn't start out as some corrupt "community organizer"!!

He also did not register for a congressional pension while serving four terms!! And still worked as an OBGYN while being a congressman!! What other politician have you ever heard of that would refuse a congressional pension, and still work while being a congressman? NONE!!

Ron paul is a great man, and you are the one who needs to WAKE UP!!



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 01:47 AM
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reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


The IRS was set up to be the enforcement arm of the Fed Reserve. They collect for the bankers. Taxpayers pay the interest the govt owes on its loans from the IRS way before they pay down the actual principal.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by inforeal
 


The problem with regulation is that it crowds out the little guy. It costs so much money in just licensing to start a business of any kind, even without a store front, that most people are discouraged from ever even trying.

Legalize liberty, my friend. And everything else comes with it.


Well if you guys would add some sanity to that standard I could jump on board.
Macho stances and us of the word "liberty" is great, but frankly there is a side
to your idealism that is exactly where corporation come in and wield big government
or just legalize illegal concepts. I certainly agree about licensing and the common man,
but I do believe that corporations are constitutionally intended to be regulated.
Chartered with intent, purpose and often times a time limit.







 
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