Maybe God got knocked unconscious and is laying in a ditch somewhere?

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by newcovenant

 

Apart from the sentences....:

Quote ["I know many people will say God is dead or never lived in the first place.
Though why they are scanning a "religion" forum I don't know"]

.........I enjoyed your post.

But religion/theology is much more than just abstract brain-gymnastics or primitive like-it/don't-like-it. It can have mundane effects as strong as politics and economics.

I take it, that you're familiar with the film "Dogma".

edit on 10-6-2011 by bogomil because: paragraphing

Thanks bogomiI. Funny that I have had more serious posts get no response and yet this a couple pages without my help. Why do people always have something to say about this topic no matter how you bring it it? Not that I'm complaining. I have seen Dogma and am struck by the physical effects that can manifest when someones mind is compelled to produce them. I know the body follows the mind and not the reverse. I wonder if someone has started a thread on that phenomena of stigmata? I'm sure I'll find it here, have to look. Always interesting bogomil - thanks for dropping by...please do come back again!

Originally posted by LHP666
reply to post by newcovenant

 

God says relax. Let go and let God. Put all our worries and troubles in His capable hands.

That is suicidal.

I know many people will say God is dead or never lived in the first place. Though why they are scanning a "religion" forum I don't know.

Because we are at war. And in war, you have to show up.

Maybe that is why He's leaving His people, those that do love Him and believe in Him to die here with no hope for the Earth.

Read your own bible. When has 'god' not left people to die? The entire bible is one bloodbath after another in the OT and NT.

Thanks for your reply here. Seems you have thought this out a little so I have a couple of questions if you have the time.

Have you ever said to yourself, I have done all I can in this situation and now I will leave it up to TPTB?

I have done that and got surprisingly good results but maybe that was dumb luck? Seriously I don't know.

Who are you, admittedly "scanning a religion forum" at war with and why is that?
Are you at war with individuals of a certain mindset or entire groups of people based on religious identity?

Lastly I think you either have been burned or are discouraged with the effect of religion but are still religious yourself. Am I wrong? Reason I say this is because even though you are taking the "con" side here and seem to be opposed to organized religion you suggest I... "read your own Bible."

I might not have a Bible,
and if you are against a theology - why read it?
Also it appears you have read the Bible yourself.
And true - sometimes it is very difficult to determine if the God written about in the Bible is a good God or a wicked and spoiled self serving tyrant.
Jesus clears up any doubt that remains as to the nature of God. I take parts where "scribes say" he smote this one and that one with a grain of salt.
I don't think He smote anyone and that deity they refer to in some of those passages is His antithesis or "the evil ones" we are warned against.

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
reply to post by newcovenant

 

It is my belief that it is all a part of the test. In the Qur'an there is a verse which states that "God will not change the condition of a people until they change the condition within themselves."

If you want God, you gotta go to Him, you gotta pray, you gotta ask. We all want without giving anything in return.

God bless

I have heard that and all a part of the getting there, accumulating understanding and working on those areas we need working on. . We are like "a work in progress" rather than "a bitter disappointment" which allows room for positive outcome and a little bit of hope still. Thank you for your reply.

Originally posted by yets777
reply to post by newcovenant

 

u have not understood the concept of free will
you requested it,
turned your back to god to learn something,
think u have found a better way than him,
we got the request granted and now at the point where u realise that it only creates chaos,
u want him to get in there and save your .ss?
not going to happen (unless the collective majority asks him to help)
u will need to save yourself.
don't point fingers , dont cry , it is what u wanted
a hard lesson to understand there is no better way than
one heart
unity
love

Well maybe possibly this is true. It does seem as though divinity is looking for a communal outcome. Wants us to work collectively together since results are always diametrically increased when we join forces. I would like my ass saved and I can't help but cry. I look around and imagine what might have been. Love and then some. We are missing everything it takes. Seems like we never had a chance. Thank you for the answer.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by newcovenant

 

Though why they are scanning a "religion" forum I don't know.

Wait a second, people actually go into individual forums. I just refresh the recent post list endlessly

The analogy of God being to us what we are to dogs is an interesting one. A more common analogy by believers is that of God as a Father. The only issue I have with these is that they don't work. Human beings are clearly on our own, no giant hand reaches down from the sky to feed people, otherwise I'm guessing thousands of children wouldn't die every day based solely on hunger. If God is a Father or a pet owner he's clearly doing a lousy job. So yeah maybe he's having a real bad couple of millennia and he got REALLY wasted and passed out somewhere... or maybe he's just not there and we really are on our own.

Actually now that you mention it - so do I.

no giant hand reaches down from the sky to feed people

Not exactly but almost. Having fresh water and edible fruit, veg and produce grown abundantly we do have the equivalent of those automatic feeders left for us.
If we foul our water and eat all the food at once without sharing with others, or replanting enough to survive - it is sheer stupidity and counter intuitive. Survival of the fittest will cause us to become extinct necessarily in the best interest of the planet, (we may be akin to fleas) especially if there is no God, as a means of natural selection OR NOT as may very well be in our case.

If there was no God here first to set this place up for us we would have to genetically engineer our own food not go out and pick it off a tree. It was here already along with things like sunshine and roosters to wake us and the moon to make love to, oceans and mountains to inspire and paint, the dark of night to allow us rest. It seems premeditated and exactly my size and preferences. It seems custom made and designer created is all.

reply to post by newcovenant

If there was no God here first to set this place up for us we would have to genetically engineer our own food not go out and pick it off a tree.

This betrays a profound ignorance of the way evolution works, I've seen it from a great many people before, the old "Earth is made for us to survive." claim. It's the other way around. We evolved to be able to survive on the Earth, the Earth was not tuned for us we were tuned, by natural selection, to survive on it.

It seems premeditated and exactly my size and preferences. It seems custom made and designer created is all.

No. In fact quite the opposite. You're mentioning only beautiful things but forgetting about cancer (perhaps a result of too much of that sun), disease, poisonous plants and animals. The world is a dangerous place, it may SEEM premeditated but only if you ignore the numerous things in nature that can easily kill us. Most of nature is amoral, only a few social species show any advanced morality, and even those species, like us, are capable of some pretty messed up stuff. Things are not always what they seem and every discovery we've made about life on this planet in the last century and a half has show common ancestry and has veered away from supernatural explanations about life.

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by amaster

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
reply to post by newcovenant

 

"God will not change the condition of a people until they change the condition within themselves."

So in other words, god is a self fabricated illusion. You believe in god and that he exists for you AND me; I don't believe in god and yet he still exists for you, but not for me. God is a self-help tool.

edit on 6/10/2011 by amaster because: (no reason given)

I respect your opinion and pose a question in response: if God is merely a self help tool, why then are people tryna convince those who believe in His existence that He is not real, do they not want people to help themselves?

(Please excuse my previous use of "You" and "I". I did not mean to speak specifically of you and I.)

The answer is a double edged sword. Since a Believer believes in god and that he exists for them (and everyone), They feel it necessary to prove to Non-Believers that he exists for them as well. However, because Non-Beleivers don't believe that god exists for them (or anyone), They feel in necessary to prove it to the Believers.

It's a difficult concept to explain, I hope I've clearified this enough.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by newcovenant

This betrays a profound ignorance of the way evolution works

You certainly do and it is a pity the whole thing is lost on your lack of sensibilities.

The first big problem with evolution is that the fossil record increasingly does not, honestly viewed, support it, a fact that famous Prof. Steven Jay Gould of Harvard has described as "the trade secret of paleontology." Evolutionary theory claims that there once existed a whole series of successive forms of the various organisms alive today. These supposedly changed by infinitesimal amounts with each generation as they evolved into the present varieties, so

the fossil record should show these gradual changes. But it doesn’t. Instead, it shows the sudden emergence of new species out of nowhere, fully complete with all their characteristics and not changing over time. It is almost entirely devoid of forms that can plausibly be identified as intermediates between older and newer ones. This is popularly known as the "missing link" problem,

www.godandscience.org...

but forgetting about cancer

You are saying "God gave us cancer" or there is cancer, so there is no God?
Both are highly convoluted and irrational. Neither is true.
Man gave man cancer. Man made products and man made by products. People who have no God to answer to get to kill others legally and without fear of reprisal or anyone even catching on, they can blame God for their cancer causing agents.

God doesn't own Pepsi, Anheuser-Busch or even Tyson Foods (largest meat producer in the world)

Is Soda to Blame for Pancreatic Cancer?
abcnews.go.com...

Caramel Coloring in Coke, Pepsi Can Cause Cancer; Industry Disputes Claim
abcnews.go.com...

New Study Suggests Heavy Drinking Causes Cancer
www.dailymotion.com...

Cancer Causes Identified - Red Meat
www.cbsnews.com...


Animal slaughter, greed and mans poor judgement, cause cancer.
A case for natural selection if ever I heard one but (oops) that's right, I am on the other side.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

Most of nature is amoral,

Depends on what you consider "moral" - Seems to me another "man made word" for having the brains you were born with. Don't go peddling your Illuminati agenda around here cuz I ain't buying the junk dna you're selling bro.

reply to post by newcovenant


Note that I said MOST of nature is amoral, other than social animals, a lion doesn't feel remorse chomping on a gazelle's throat, certain insects actually lay eggs inside living animals. Much of nature is eat or be eaten.

That being said I am aware of remarkable altruism and a sort of morality conveyed by animals, being able to work together, having a measure of natural empathy, helps with survival especially in social animals like humans. Ever hear the phrase "it takes a village to raise a child" - yep, that about sums up where our morality comes from.

Man gave man cancer.

That's stupid. Human beings are not the only animals that gets cancer. And no the argument isn't: "Cancer exists therefore there is no God", I was rebutting your claim that the world SEEMED designed for our benefit when actually there are a great many many dangers, the world can be a cruel place and thus the wonder of a sunrise or the beauty of a flower are no more evidence for God than a cancerous growth or a volcanic eruption.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by newcovenant

 

Note that I said MOST of nature is amoral, other than social animals, a lion doesn't feel remorse chomping on a gazelle's throat, certain insects actually lay eggs inside living animals. Much of nature is eat or be eaten.

That being said I am aware of remarkable altruism and a sort of morality conveyed by animals, being able to work together, having a measure of natural empathy, helps with survival especially in social animals like humans. Ever hear the phrase "it takes a village to raise a child" - yep, that about sums up where our morality comes from.

Man gave man cancer.

That's stupid. Human beings are not the only animals that gets cancer. And no the argument isn't: "Cancer exists therefore there is no God", I was rebutting your claim that the world SEEMED designed for our benefit when actually there are a great many many dangers, the world can be a cruel place and thus the wonder of a sunrise or the beauty of a flower are no more evidence for God than a cancerous growth or a volcanic eruption.

edit on 13-6-2011 by Titen-Sxull because: (no reason given)

Yes true animals get cancer but we are just now discovering that they do and many are caused by virus's you cannot say do not have human origins. The rest are from pollutants. I suppose God made those too?
www.livescience.com...

The study suggests links between wildlife cancers and human pollutants, as well. For example, beluga whales in the St. Lawrence River system have an extraordinarily high rate of intestinal cancer — it is their second leading cause of death. One kind of pollutant in the waters, called polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, is known to cause cancer in humans. The compounds are suspected carcinogens for beluga whales as well. Fish in other polluted waterways, including brown bullhead catfish and English sole, also exhibit high levels of cancer.

Man has the ability to understand the feelings of what he kills. Most animals do not evidence this "understanding" but that does not mean they do not have it and - over ride it.
Just sayin - even you don't know what the animals are thinking dr doolittle.

A discussion of the topic of a creator - as long as it is not with a "know it all" pretending to know more than science is able to tell us - is usually helpful and thought provoking, and that is why I brought it up here initially.

I am arguing the possibility of a type of creator who is not omnipresent but more mortal and the reason this creator cannot return to assist the situation is because they are indefinitely held up.

It is a funny concept. You are taking yourself way too seriously.
And you are certainly not saving anyone from ignorance here. You should relax a little.
Get around the volcanoes, cancer and all the big scary's lurking on the planet and enjoy life.

Originally posted by yets777

We are god, lets act as one. I am tired of this program called 'LIFE' Lets make our lives count.

Be as a god, do not follow are idolize any of them.

You my friend GOT the point. Im also TIRED of this program called earth LIFE. At least we are two... trying to change our own program. I don,t want to continue this game... its over for me. Im not enjoying it anymore! Life must be enjoyable, not sufferable.
And to the other member, im NOT choose to suffer... id i did it subcounsciouly its noy MY fault. Im not a ZEN master, i CANT deal my my subconcious because after all is SUBconcious, understand?

it is not hard to liberate yourself and be truely happy in anything u do,
but the first thing u need to do is become quiet, and listen
stop pointing fingers and blaming someone else,
you are your own master yes,
but still there is a source,
u cannot become a god without god,
have a little respect
and it will be returned ,
like every other feeling you project,
action/reaction
beware of what u send out for it always returns with a vengeance
u can't escape it either,( not even in death)
u need to face it
it is all very simple and does not require you to be a zenmaster,


__________________________________________________reply (lost those pesky quotes!)
This is all very cryptic but intriguing too.
You must know that in this I attempt not to blame God but to give God an excuse and make him mortal.
I remember reading may passages where God talks of humans as if we are not much more than dumb animals and sometimes we are treated as if we peed on the carpet.
I think maybe to a God or our God we are like pets He is fond of and not equals.
You may disagree. I prefer you be right anyway.

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by newcovenant

 

All is going according to plan.
Remember back with me please, 1990ish.
Sim City, you get to release catastrophe on your cities; deluge, tornado, godzilla, Etc.
This is all god is doing, and the same exact result will happen.
Some pixles that mean not a thing at all will be disrupted, as it was and this is just a game.
So, I suggest you activate the cash cheat and play some.
Hope it helps,
btw activate the dog food cheat too and feed yer buddies.

When I figure out what you are trying to say here (a decoder is on call and should be here in minutes) I will take the time to respond. It is entertaining none the less. Thanks for posting.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by yets777

We are god, lets act as one. I am tired of this program called 'LIFE' Lets make our lives count.

Be as a god, do not follow are idolize any of them.

You my friend GOT the point. Im also TIRED of this program called earth LIFE. At least we are two... trying to change our own program. I don,t want to continue this game... its over for me. Im not enjoying it anymore! Life must be enjoyable, not sufferable.
And to the other member, im NOT choose to suffer... id i did it subcounsciouly its noy MY fault. Im not a ZEN master, i CANT deal my my subconcious because after all is SUBconcious, understand?

it is not hard to liberate yourself and be truely happy in anything u do,
but the first thing u need to do is become quiet, and listen
stop pointing fingers and blaming someone else,
you are your own master yes,
but still there is a source,
u cannot become a god without god,
have a little respect
and it will be returned ,
like every other feeling you project,
action/reaction
beware of what u send out for it always returns with a vengeance
u can't escape it either,( not even in death)
u need to face it
it is all very simple and does not require you to be a zenmaster,

__________________________________________________reply (lost those pesky quotes!)
This is all very cryptic but intriguing too.
You must know that in this I attempt not to blame God but to give God an excuse and make him mortal.
I remember reading may passages where God talks of humans as if we are not much more than dumb animals and sometimes we are treated as if we peed on the carpet.
I think maybe to a God or our God we are like pets He is fond of and not equals.
You may disagree. I prefer you be right anyway.
i know u are only seeking answers and i was not offended by your aproach in any way , it all has to do with what the collective project towards god that affects on global scale, and the projection of us individualy does it identical but within ourselfs, god needs to mirror what we think of it to be , if mankind is stuck in god as a wrathfull being , it will effect him in that manner ,

reply to post by newcovenant


That was really cool. I like your style. Also, if I may say, best thread title ever.

ColoradoJens

reply to post by Jordan River


Just an fyi...these trials are called life. God has not chosen for any of the things you listed to happen nor was there any intent for someone or something to teach you a lesson from these events. You will teach yourself. You are a good person innately.

CJ

I doubt the existence of God often. I've had that kind of life.

While I think about Him I wonder just as often if He hasn't shown up yet because He's waiting for us to do something that just hasn't been done yet; as if a particular person doing something is the key to Him showing us, definitively, that He is here.

Has anyone else here ever had a similar thought? That something particular needs to happen before He shows His face?