Welcome to Entitlement, USA

Originally posted by no time
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Great stuff Saturn, Mac and the rest. I have a business trip I am heading off to i will catch ya later.


I learned a lot.

Great thread. Thanks for starting it.
Good luck on the business trip and stay safe.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by macman
Yeah, no thanks as I don't need to have more of my earned money taken away to provide for others.

No worries
besides, the more the corporatists win, the faster both you and I will be not concerned about our earned money...all goes to the east and we will be fighting over fast food jobs soon enough.

Stand on principles as the ship sinks and the eastern dragon rises. at least its a fun ride down

Your response garners both agreement and anger, but no directed towards you.
I will work and fight to keep what little I have, as more and more is taken every year.

You can cling to the driftwood, sure. but frankly, that mentality will only make sure we dive quickly into the abyss.
The -beauty- of places like china is that they don't think as indivduals trying to get 3 plasma televisions...they think as a whole that wants to be on top in 100 years...not one or two, but the entire nation ruling earth.
and so, they spend wisely, but more importantly, they are fueling technology and education to advance the people...

Your grandchildren will serve the foreign masters in ways we cannot even fathom today. america is converting into low industry untrained labor camps and perhaps a brothel...

I overall disagree with this vision as the one we should fight for...however, I see too many are demanding we fight for just that (short term, kill the middle class and support the corporate takeover).

well, it lasted about 250 years...not too bad really. I am curious what will come after...either total socialism, or total facism(corporatism)...one extreme or the other, and at this moment, it is leaning pretty heavily towards corporatism.

I understand your train of thought, but disagree to the extent that I do not work so I can provide for others.
I work to provide for me and mine.

There are not enough jobs requiring college degrees to go around...there are a lot of college grads out there now and more grads every year. Not enough jobs for them!
People who have the jobs requiring college degrees are NOT retiring when they are eligible, which could free up some jobs for the newly graduated. Also, retirement age is going up so these jobs are not going to be open to new grads.
Not everyone can get a degree...that is why we should have jobs of all kinds. But as someone posted...the factory jobs, other jobs that do not require a college degree, are all going overseas.
This is truly a downfall for America. I know boys getting out of high school who are friends of my sons who are desperately searching for a job...jobs which can provide a decent living wage. So sad to see them looking and meanwhile working minimum wage work that provides not enough money to live....
I just feel for these kids and the state our country is in.
CEO's...look where your greed has put this nation.

Originally posted by macman

I understand your train of thought, but disagree to the extent that I do not work so I can provide for others.
I work to provide for me and mine.

And I understand that train of thought also
What I am saying is that...not to worry, none of us will be working for long anyhow..as technology grows, machines replace labor, the only thing left will be high tech jobs

and with a ignorant population verses a nation in the east where all are well educated, we will be little more than beggers.

We can address this coming reality and alter our course, or stand on principles and simply smash the wall..die a warriors death and let our childrens children learn how to beg really well.



short sightedness will indeed destroy this country...but hey, we still got cool movies to make.

I hear they are considering doing a brilliant series called "owch my balls!". (star if you can name the obscure reference that is just too damn relevant)

Originally posted by sharintexas
There are not enough jobs requiring college degrees to go around...there are a lot of college grads out there now and more grads every year. Not enough jobs for them!
People who have the jobs requiring college degrees are NOT retiring when they are eligible, which could free up some jobs for the newly graduated. Also, retirement age is going up so these jobs are not going to be open to new grads.
Not everyone can get a degree...that is why we should have jobs of all kinds. But as someone posted...the factory jobs, other jobs that do not require a college degree, are all going overseas.
This is truly a downfall for America. I know boys getting out of high school who are friends of my sons who are desperately searching for a job...jobs which can provide a decent living wage. So sad to see them looking and meanwhile working minimum wage work that provides not enough money to live....
I just feel for these kids and the state our country is in.
CEO's...look where your greed has put this nation.

Right
There will always be ditch diggers and general laborers..however, there are plenty of high end fields and new emerging fields that will require swarms of advanced training and degrees.
no, the world doesn't need 300 million doctors...but it needs engineers, computer programmers, designers, medical, business, lawyers, etc...there are more than enough high end jobs requiring know how and skill...

As far as getting out of school and making minimum wage...hell, thats just rights of passage. took me almost 3 years from degree to first "real" job. before then, I was pulling t-shirts and trying to get in anywhere that was looking for newbies.

I see, if you watch tech news, 5 possible new mega bubbles in the works. all of which will required skilled electrical engineers, installers, programmers, and a whole mess of new fields (see my latest thread about the holographic stuff, mini computers, etc for just 1). now, we as westerners can train up for these new tech fields, or we can focus on how to do roofing and compete with illegal immigrants while we pray for storms to break stuff while the rest of the world focuses on training their population to win the future.

I expect we will not use foresight though..not willingly anyhow, I am not trying to plea for people to be reasonable, I am instead looking for a nice home in denmark to move to in about 10 years or so...learn the language, etc. eventually you get tired of telling people to grab a bucket and get the water out of the boat instead of smashing holes in it..do what you want, the world will survive, even if yet another empire crumbles due to stagnant ideas and ideals.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Idiocracy I believe.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Idiocracy I believe.

Star 4 you
_____

ok, here is the deal.

The principles of the core american value fall in line well with libertarianism...sure, I admit that fully.

however, context is key here. during the american revolution, we had a world filled with monarchy as the norm. aka, the peons of society gave most of their earnings to the royals and the aristocratic class. the republic was formed to remove these have and have nots class..it was highly progressive, wildly new...no king? no ruling or elite class? a poor guy had a chance? brilliant.

and it was a fantastic system. small businesses locally owned, a fair tax rate going towards helping out the area and nation verses just the wallets and castles of some lord...who wouldn't be on board.

Well, capitalism grew, and companys grew...and rightly so. provide a good service, and you will bank.

The problem is now that capitalism, the poor and middle class dream and drive is now murdered and rotting in the street. in its place is now corporatism..cold mergers of super conglomerations. politicians, being people and very short sighted views on driftwood clinging verses shipbuilding have crafted shortsighted rulings to allow corporate entities to purchase government influence

we are right back to where we started, but instead of having a kings shield we swear fealty to, we now have corporate logos in its place...same concept though

the politicians pave the way for ownership of citizens through legislation and rulings favoring and benefitting the royal corporations and remove the ability for some joe trying to simply run a small computer shop from ever competing...then removing any potential for new entities to emerge through globalization, lowering the collective bargaining weight of the workers and talent in the country, give bonuses and incentives to corporations to use overseas for everything, etc etc etc.

This system will most certainly collapse..it already has argueably and is just kept alive by an illusion, fiat economy, and corruption of the reserve.

Hopefully the next constitution will account for the human greed factor and design it for the growth of the country verses the individual...because everyone wants to be caesar.

Our initial progressive and dynamic new idea, called the USA, is now a old and busted tool of corruption.

I personally just hope the illusion stands long enough so that the next form of government will be a technocracy...we are only about 30 or so years out from the possibility.

Originally posted by sharintexas
There are not enough jobs requiring college degrees to go around...there are a lot of college grads out there now and more grads every year. Not enough jobs for them!
People who have the jobs requiring college degrees are NOT retiring when they are eligible, which could free up some jobs for the newly graduated. Also, retirement age is going up so these jobs are not going to be open to new grads.
Not everyone can get a degree...that is why we should have jobs of all kinds. But as someone posted...the factory jobs, other jobs that do not require a college degree, are all going overseas.
This is truly a downfall for America. I know boys getting out of high school who are friends of my sons who are desperately searching for a job...jobs which can provide a decent living wage. So sad to see them looking and meanwhile working minimum wage work that provides not enough money to live....
I just feel for these kids and the state our country is in.
CEO's...look where your greed has put this nation.

Agreed. Thank you for the reply.
I will say that an investment in high level education, would have a very good return on the investment. As the government would be willing partners in the growth of technologies that would create those high level jobs. The system we have now prevents these technologies from manifesting itself in order to prevent competition, or low prices. I am not ok with big government, I am not ok with big corporations, but I am for an investment in a FREE country to maintain the pursuit of liberty.

On the other hand, subsidies into the ethanol industry may pay off in the end. manufacturers continue to make gains in efficiency of production in ways that almost look as though the investment will pay off for both the government and the corporations involved. But who will not make out ok? Anyone who has to buy corn for food. In this manner, it would be hard to say which is right.

The next problem comes when the next tech comes along that is WAY better than ethanol, what do you do? Do you get rid of all the infrastructure, and everyone who invested in ethanol lost? Or do you put a stop to the next tech until your investments have provided some fruit. And this is why we need to be educated. Educated enough to go with what is right for the common good, not someone's pocketbook. MONEY should not be a part of every decision. Right and wrong, morale obligations, self-responsibility have a place.