Welcome to Entitlement, USA

I have read, and heard on many occasions that EDUCATION is the biggest determination of who will live in poverty.

Why are people having to go in debt for their education? Is this to eliminate the possibility of removing poverty with education?

And if Education solves poverty, then what the hell are we doing wasting our time with the IMF. If Education will stop poverty, then education shouldn't cost a dime, for anyone. ever.

More education = more competition for corporations?

While I will agree that education is very important and that I think the Govt fears the educated masses, nothing is free as someone has to pay for it.

Originally posted by macman
While I will agree that education is very important and that I think the Govt fears the educated masses, nothing is free as someone has to pay for it.

Would you say that education is more expensive than the trillions in aid (printed by the fed) to give these people entitlements and AID?

point being - its already being paid for, but not in a way that would provide a solution.

not sure...is this erm...sarcasm or perhaps a joke?

I will answer on the premise that your new to earth (or are a cyborg) and are taking things too literally.

Education is a strong determining factor as to where you will end up in life. not 100%, but very very influencial towards your final income bracket.

the more the population gets advanced degree's, the more the population can accomplish. with a low education population, we will only be able to do simple labor jobs, manufacturing, etc...which is all overseas now in slave labor camps.

So, what is truely the watermark of a successful economy is the specialists and scholars in the society...the high end jobs, the professionals. This comes through high end training, degrees, etc. this allows for the jobs to remain in the community that require specializations verses go elsewhere.

In a age where machines and 3rd world slaves are taking all of the mindless repetitive tasks, and the advancement of computers, it is critical not just for the individual, but society as a whole to remain competitive and advanced in their learning.

And yes, schooling (in my opinion) should be free, first class, right up through university and beyond. anything that helps the country remain on the tippy top of world economics and provides vast amounts of jobs, and general advancements of our way of life has my vote.

reply to post by no time


Ah, the joy of correlation -vs- causality.

It is true that the more educated a person is, the less likely they are to live in poverty.

At the same time, the more financially stable your circumstances, the more likely you are to get an education.

Then there's the fact that many of our most inspirational stories of people escaping poverty include those people achieving higher education; then we must ask ourselves: was it the education that set them free or the drive and determination that they used to get said education?

Of course, I am a huge advocate for public education. I believe in that at least 25 percent of our defense budget should be realocated to schools in order to bring the best talent and materials to bear on the task of preventing our slide towards idiocracy. Still the value of "higher education" over strong broad-based fundamentals with an opportunity for enrollment in quality vocational/trade pathing is something that our college-crazed society needs to consider.

So should education be free? The right education for the individual should be free. Someone who is intelligent and excels in the relevent areas should be able to go to Med School without a creating a debt burden that contributes to the high cost of health care. At the same time, someone less academic who loves to work with his/her hands should be able to receive the training to become a carpenter, mechanic, pipefitter etc . . .

Our problem is that we have fetishized "College" as this grand panacea that will automatically grant its graduates access to the lofty heights of the comfortably employed regardless of whether your major in Medicine or Theatre or (the especially loathsome) Business Administration. This is simply untrue. One's skill determines one's earning potential and if you manage to complete a higher education without a true skill, you will inevitably find yourself J.W.F.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
not sure...is this erm...sarcasm or perhaps a joke?

I will answer on the premise that your new to earth (or are a cyborg) and are taking things too literally.

Education is a strong determining factor as to where you will end up in life. not 100%, but very very influencial towards your final income bracket.

the more the population gets advanced degree's, the more the population can accomplish. with a low education population, we will only be able to do simple labor jobs, manufacturing, etc...which is all overseas now in slave labor camps.

So, what is truely the watermark of a successful economy is the specialists and scholars in the society...the high end jobs, the professionals. This comes through high end training, degrees, etc. this allows for the jobs to remain in the community that require specializations verses go elsewhere.

In a age where machines and 3rd world slaves are taking all of the mindless repetitive tasks, and the advancement of computers, it is critical not just for the individual, but society as a whole to remain competitive and advanced in their learning.

And yes, schooling (in my opinion) should be free, first class, right up through university and beyond. anything that helps the country remain on the tippy top of world economics and provides vast amounts of jobs, and general advancements of our way of life has my vote.

I appreciate your comment. Are you saying that I am a cyborg or new to planet earth because I think it would be cheaper (EDIT: and more beneficial) to educate than to arbitrarily support the impoverished?

Originally posted by RobertAntonWeishaupt
reply to post by no time

 

Ah, the joy of correlation -vs- causality.

It is true that the more educated a person is, the less likely they are to live in poverty.

At the same time, the more financially stable your circumstances, the more likely you are to get an education.

Then there's the fact that many of our most inspirational stories of people escaping poverty include those people achieving higher education; then we must ask ourselves: was it the education that set them free or the drive and determination that they used to get said education?

Of course, I am a huge advocate for public education. I believe in that at least 25 percent of our defense budget should be realocated to schools in order to bring the best talent and materials to bear on the task of preventing our slide towards idiocracy. Still the value of "higher education" over strong broad-based fundamentals with an opportunity for enrollment in quality vocational/trade pathing is something that our college-crazed society needs to consider.

So should education be free? The right education for the individual should be free. Someone who is intelligent and excels in the relevent areas should be able to go to Med School without a creating a debt burden that contributes to the high cost of health care. At the same time, someone less academic who loves to work with his/her hands should be able to receive the training to become a carpenter, mechanic, pipefitter etc . . .

Our problem is that we have fetishized "College" as this grand panacea that will automatically grant its graduates access to the lofty heights of the comfortably employed regardless of whether your major in Medicine or Theatre or (the especially loathsome) Business Administration. This is simply untrue. One's skill determines one's earning potential and if you manage to complete a higher education without a true skill, you will inevitably find yourself J.W.F.

edit on 10-6-2011 by RobertAntonWeishaupt because: Fixed a key typo

Star for this. This is exactly what I am getting at. I agree mostly with your sentiments.

reply to post by SaturnFX


I starred this

And yes, schooling (in my opinion) should be free, first class, right up through university and beyond. anything that helps the country remain on the tippy top of world economics and provides vast amounts of jobs, and general advancements of our way of life has my vote.

What do we need to do to make this happen? I sincerely would like to see this in my lifetime.

Originally posted by no time
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

And yes, schooling (in my opinion) should be free, first class, right up through university and beyond. anything that helps the country remain on the tippy top of world economics and provides vast amounts of jobs, and general advancements of our way of life has my vote.

What do we need to do to make this happen? I sincerely would like to see this in my lifetime.

Stop waring, slash military budget, and raise taxes would be the simple solution...then get anyone whom wants to attend university to do so. Sure, a person will pay a bit more in taxes, but with a entire population of intellects, the jobs and innovation created after a generation will more than make up for any short term pain.

however, people have issues with the thought of a tax increase. we want the best country...but like, not want it bad enough to pay a little extra. meh.

It more than likely won't happen in your lifetime...but what may happen is that the far east will become the top dog. (or the nordic countrys)

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by no time
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

And yes, schooling (in my opinion) should be free, first class, right up through university and beyond. anything that helps the country remain on the tippy top of world economics and provides vast amounts of jobs, and general advancements of our way of life has my vote.

What do we need to do to make this happen? I sincerely would like to see this in my lifetime.

Stop waring, slash military budget, and raise taxes would be the simple solution...then get anyone whom wants to attend university to do so. Sure, a person will pay a bit more in taxes, but with a entire population of intellects, the jobs and innovation created after a generation will more than make up for any short term pain.

however, people have issues with the thought of a tax increase. we want the best country...but like, not want it bad enough to pay a little extra. meh.

It more than likely won't happen in your lifetime...but what may happen is that the far east will become the top dog. (or the nordic countrys)

edit on 10-6-2011 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)

Yeah, no thanks as I don't need to have more of my earned money taken away to provide for others.

reply to post by macman


We could think of it as only costing a bit of extra money to get it started, then as people are diminishing off the entitlement programs, and new technologies are created that sustain full employment, it would be CHEAPER.

Education is pretty much free - read and study anything you like at a library. Going to school is a different matter. That might or might not include an actual education but if you want teachers and buildings and cafeterias and sports teams someone is going to have to pay for it. Or did that 'free' education mean others should pay for you to eat and have shelter while you learn? And pay someone to 'teach' so they too can eat?

Originally posted by macman
Yeah, no thanks as I don't need to have more of my earned money taken away to provide for others.

No worries
besides, the more the corporatists win, the faster both you and I will be not concerned about our earned money...all goes to the east and we will be fighting over fast food jobs soon enough.

Stand on principles as the ship sinks and the eastern dragon rises. at least its a fun ride down

Originally posted by no time
reply to post by macman

 

We could think of it as only costing a bit of extra money to get it started, then as people are diminishing off the entitlement programs, and new technologies are created that sustain full employment, it would be CHEAPER.

No. How about being responsible for yourself?
Entitlement programs need to be cut regardless.
Have you ever tried to take away an entitlement from the Govt?
I believe it has yet to happen.

Originally posted by no time
reply to post by macman

 

We could think of it as only costing a bit of extra money to get it started, then as people are diminishing off the entitlement programs, and new technologies are created that sustain full employment, it would be CHEAPER.

Logic only works when people decide to remove their ego.

Principles in economic regards is pure ego over a choice made long ago...a refusal to see a different way of thinking.

This is the mindset of a large segment of the country and controlled carefully by corporate lobbiests that have purchased politicians.
meaning, it won't change. I am blessed with the fact that I can actually leave when the going gets too tough, and I will (again), just waiting for the final shoe to offically drop.

Florida just cleared the way to allow anonymous corporate donations of unlimited amounts to be donated directly to political partys. Our former governor vetoed this when it came up before as it is clear cut bribery and corruption. our new governor fast tracked it. politics is now a corporate entity in florida and soon to be moving on throughout the rest of the red states. supress the peoples collective rights, and enhance corporate takeovers.

america is not failing...it has failed...it is dead, and it smells funny. the population standing up for the corporatists to destroy further any power or influence by the rapidly growing poor class are a good mix of the most evil SOBs this country has ever seen and brainwashed drones spouting retoric and programmed "principles"...there is no thought required, actually, thought and introspection is discouraged (hense why for decades now, education is thought of as an elitist and snobby trait).

stick a fork in it...its done.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by macman
Yeah, no thanks as I don't need to have more of my earned money taken away to provide for others.

No worries
besides, the more the corporatists win, the faster both you and I will be not concerned about our earned money...all goes to the east and we will be fighting over fast food jobs soon enough.

Stand on principles as the ship sinks and the eastern dragon rises. at least its a fun ride down

Your response garners both agreement and anger, but no directed towards you.
I will work and fight to keep what little I have, as more and more is taken every year.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by no time
reply to post by macman

 

We could think of it as only costing a bit of extra money to get it started, then as people are diminishing off the entitlement programs, and new technologies are created that sustain full employment, it would be CHEAPER.

No. How about being responsible for yourself?
Entitlement programs need to be cut regardless.
Have you ever tried to take away an entitlement from the Govt?
I believe it has yet to happen.

I think entitlement programs such as oil subsidarys, military offensive programs (any base outside of the united states or nato allies), tax breaks, etc...should be cut first...

then we can worry about food stamps and scholarships of the middle and poor class...until the repubes decide to stop giving their corporate buddies multi-billion dollar bonuses in tax breaks, and loopholes to allow for the largest corporations to pay no taxes, then not a single word should come about the underclass.

Save the rich...doesn't resonate with me, nor 80% of the country.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Great stuff Saturn, Mac and the rest. I have a business trip I am heading off to i will catch ya later.


I learned a lot.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by no time
reply to post by macman

 

We could think of it as only costing a bit of extra money to get it started, then as people are diminishing off the entitlement programs, and new technologies are created that sustain full employment, it would be CHEAPER.

No. How about being responsible for yourself?
Entitlement programs need to be cut regardless.
Have you ever tried to take away an entitlement from the Govt?
I believe it has yet to happen.

I think entitlement programs such as oil subsidarys, military offensive programs (any base outside of the united states or nato allies), tax breaks, etc...should be cut first...

then we can worry about food stamps and scholarships of the middle and poor class...until the repubes decide to stop giving their corporate buddies multi-billion dollar bonuses in tax breaks, and loopholes to allow for the largest corporations to pay no taxes, then not a single word should come about the underclass.

Save the rich...doesn't resonate with me, nor 80% of the country.

I agree that those listed above need to be cut, I think they all need to be cut at the same time.
Combining Welfare with Corporate Tax Cuts is a idealistic way to win an argument. Just saying.
Read and understand my responses with the idea that I am more Libertarian everyday.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by macman
Yeah, no thanks as I don't need to have more of my earned money taken away to provide for others.

No worries
besides, the more the corporatists win, the faster both you and I will be not concerned about our earned money...all goes to the east and we will be fighting over fast food jobs soon enough.

Stand on principles as the ship sinks and the eastern dragon rises. at least its a fun ride down

Your response garners both agreement and anger, but no directed towards you.
I will work and fight to keep what little I have, as more and more is taken every year.

You can cling to the driftwood, sure. but frankly, that mentality will only make sure we dive quickly into the abyss.
The -beauty- of places like china is that they don't think as indivduals trying to get 3 plasma televisions...they think as a whole that wants to be on top in 100 years...not one or two, but the entire nation ruling earth.
and so, they spend wisely, but more importantly, they are fueling technology and education to advance the people...

Your grandchildren will serve the foreign masters in ways we cannot even fathom today. america is converting into low industry untrained labor camps and perhaps a brothel...

I overall disagree with this vision as the one we should fight for...however, I see too many are demanding we fight for just that (short term, kill the middle class and support the corporate takeover).

well, it lasted about 250 years...not too bad really. I am curious what will come after...either total socialism, or total facism(corporatism)...one extreme or the other, and at this moment, it is leaning pretty heavily towards corporatism.